TRL Marantz Sa-14
It looks like my SA14 will ship mid this week, and I should receive it by mid the following week. I'll give it 500 hours to break in but I will of course sneak in a few listens before then! Good discussion on vibration management. I have a set of Herbie's Tenderfeet (soft, vibration absorbing) as well as a set of JJAZ FOD, which are made of a foam rather than a gel. I get the impression that the SA14 responds well to isolation as others have posted that partially inflated bicycle inner tubes work very well. I'll have to do some reading on Stillpoints and HRS Nimbus. Paul mentioned to me that the modded SA14 also responds well to changes in power cords. Has anyone experiemented with different power cords? I currently use the Bolder Cable Nitro on my source and preamp and hope that it works out well with the TRL/SA14. |
Jsala: Why not talk to Paul about a power cord? He might have a solution for you. My friend bought a power cord from Paul for his SA-14. I use a FIM Gold on my TRL/Sonny 2000. It's funny using a $1300 power cord on a $850 player, but I had it around anyway and it is incredible. It makes sense though, Paul designed the FIM Gold cable, so maybe it's an integration thing. Regarding isloation, I recommend that you try every possible combination so you find what works best in your personal system. Try as many combinations as you have to find what works best. You'd be surprised how much performance is lost when folks fail to spend the time finding the best isolation for their player. Remember that isolation device material will determine the voicing of the unit. Don't be afraid to try 1-1/4 inch maple blocks or brass cones, too. Softer materials may have a tendency to soften the sound, (dynamics, too). Harder materials may have the tendency to harden the sound. Experiment! Have fun! I love our hobby! Paul (Oldpet): I've decided to buy a used SA-14 and enjoy it until for a while. That is after TRL gets done with it! My friend's TRL/SA-14 had around 400 (?) hours on it the last time I'd heard it and it was incredible. We played a couple of Paul's live recording CD's and his Fidelis Cello SACD and I sat with my jaw dropped for an hour. But, I don't need to tell you that, do I? You have one ... These guys also have a new amplifier company, Transistor Research Labs. I've heard the proto-type over at Brian's house and it is insane! I've sold my Tube Research amps and will take delivery on their new ST-225 integrated within a few weeks. It's 225 conservative watts/channel, has 3 pairs of inputs, and has a seperate 48 stepped attenuator for each channel. Price is $5500. (The amps I sold went for 2 to 3 times that amount). They also have a 500 watt mono for $9K, but it isn't out yet. Best wishes, Jack |
Pardales - To my knowledge, TRL has not done an 8260. I think they may have done both versions of the SA14, but were not able to do a side by side comparision if I recall correctly. Maybe if you email Paul he can comment on that. I seem to recall someone stating (don't hold me to this)that the difference after mods of SA14v1 and SA14v2 was negligible even though the SA14v2 had some enhancements to the stock version. The 8260 uses the same DAC. The SA14v1 has been claimed to be very similar in stock form to the 8260 IIRC in sound by one professional reviewer. They fooled around with power cords and were able to get the same voicing or sound basically from the two units. The SA14 v2 supposedly had some improvements of some type in shielding and power handling after alleged comments about the SA14v1 being so close to the 8260 in sound. I think someone stated in a forum that the SA14 v2 was slightly better than the v1 in SACD, but the Redbook was the same. All of the above may be irrelevant as to how this all translates after a TRL mod and is something only they can maybe answer for you from their understanding of the topology of the three units. FWIW, I almost got a used 8260, but found an SA14 at a reasonable price so went with that. The users who have heard or who own the SA14v1 modded by TRL are certainly happy so that is probably a safe bet right now. The SA11 is supposedly slightly better. My guess is the 8260 would be very nice also. Who knows- it might be right there with the SA14/SA11 TRL units. |
hi Jack Concratulations! I'm sure you'll love having such wonderful sound at your finger tips. Who knows - The 14 may even stop your search, for a while. :-) I love those recordings of paul's they really are a joy to hear. I haven't even begun to play with isolation devices yet. I am using a Signal Cable HC digital power cord on the 14. It works for me. FWIW |
Paul told me that the SA14 v1 and v2 sound the same after being modded. If so then you basically get the TRL mods for free if you get the v1 instead of the v2. If the 8260 sounds as good as the SA14 when modded then it would be a great buy since it is several hundred $$$ cheaper (a new 8260 is cheaper than a used SA14 v1). I have not heard if TRL mods the 8260. I have heard/read (someone should confirm) that the 8260 uses a Sony transport and DSP (and may have reliability problems) whereas the SA14 uses a Sharp transport (which weighs 5 lbs and is made of metal). |
I'm getting a CRL Silver Series power cord from Paul along with my modded SA14 as he says it will give a more solid low-end and better soundstaging/imaging. I figure I could do worse than follow the recommendation of the designer, in this case of both the mod and the power cord! I'll try the CRL along with my Bolder Cable Nitro and see which one suits me and my system best. I saw an ad for a CRL Bronze Series power cord here on audiogon. The owner had a TRL modded 595 or 2000ES and it seems that Paul recommends the Bronze series for these players and the upgraded Silver Series for the SA14, which is reasonable given that better players can better take advantage of better power cords. I have not been able to find information online about the differences among the Bronze, Silver and Gold series of power cords so I am buying based on my trust of Paul. |
There are a couple more people I have emailed that are moving up to the SA-14 TRL from the 2000es TRL. I hope to hear from them soon. My unit has 235 hours of time and counting towards 300 hours. I expect the sound to keep improving and perhaps slow a bit when it hits 500 hours. You may wonder why its taking that long. The reason is I turn the unit completely off for one day so things settle in. I have yet to hear anyone who has the TRL Marantz SA-11 come forward with how it compares to the Marantz SA-14 TRL. Any takers? |
Pardales - I've been waiting to see if any one else would chime in with an answer to your question. Regarding redbook performance. Most all of my comments above in this thread are centered around redbook performance on the TRL SA-14. Briefly - redbook is the best i've ever heard in my system with the TRL unit. I still have a McCormack UDP1, which is renowned for its redbook performance, (deservedly so) and the TRL is more of everything the McCormack does - to me. I also have a RAM modded toshiba unit that i bought for a second system in the house and - to me - the TRL is far more engaging on every level. I haven't got near the amount of SACDs as I do redbook CDs. But, I do have an SACD as well as a redbook copy of James Taylor's "Hourglass" disc. Before the TRL, I HATED the SACD version of the disc. Now - with the TRL - I prefer the SACD version to the redbook version. You have know idea what that says about the difference made by the TRL. I simply could not believe the way the TRL made this disc sound. I was really amazed. Also Keep in mind - the SACD circuitry on my SA-14 is not even a fourth of the way broken in! I try not to give my opinion on how machines sound, b/c there are too many variables in everyone's systems/homes etc. I do say that -to me - it is the best sounding front end i've heard. I find that I'm not analyzing 'sound' anymore. I'm now just listening to 'music' and being impressed on a nightly basis. It is really fun to just sit back and enjoy. The combination of gear I have right now seems to really sing. the TRL sa-14 really was the "cherry on top"- for me. :-) Hope this helps Paul |
This is exciting. There are alot of us on this thread waiting for their TRL SA-14 to arrive. This is a defining moment for me if indeed this player owns up to the advance billing. I would love to hear more feedback. A true sign of a Hi-end product is its adaptability. But a sign of greatness is how well it connects you to the music no matter what system or environment. |
La45- I get my TRL SA14 unit Tuesday if the Fedex tracking info is correct. I also recently had TRL mod my integrated amplifier (Musical Fidelity A 300). I have only had it back for three days so only have initial impressions. It will take several weeks to fully break in according to Paul and Brian. I borrowed a TRL Sony 595 (which I had in my system before) from my friend here in town so I could hear the amp only change before I got the Marantz this week. The changes from the amp mod are quite startling actually. I guess we all forget with all these digital mods TRL is doing that they are state of the art preamp/amp designers and builders. Who better to have mod your amp! The noise floor has been lowered a great deal and the sound is quite a bit smoother, effortless, and more 3D. I will post more on this later on a different thread maybe, but I have been listening to my system today and wondering how in the hell is the Marantz going to top this? I am also wondering how much more can this modest little amp improve upon break in? I am in for a nice ride I think in the next couple of months. While listening to Dave Brubeck Time Out tonight, I truly had the system disappear at times and was immersed in the music totally. I do agree that the real test of any system is do you emotionally connect to the music. Will let folks know how the TRL Marantz SA14 works out in my system. |
My TRL SA-14 was shipped to me last week so I should get it this week. I also got a CRL Silver series power cord on Paul's recommendation. Paul/Oldpet, does your RAM-modded Toshiba have the Superclock? Glad to hear that the TRL is doing so well in your system, particularly vs the McCormack. Lkdog, great news re your modded A300. Down the road I may want to simplify my system and go for an integrated so I'll keep a look out for reviews on TRL modded amps. |
The fee is the standard $550 they charge on all mods for digital units/DACS/transports/ etc. Brian feels that the MF A300 changes were very nice. Not in the class of their new solid state 225 watt a side ST-225 integrated amp, but he was surprised how far they were able to take the MF. The ST 255 is $5500 so that would be expected. I think the MF A300 was around $1700 new. The mod was definitely worth it IMHO. It has a very different character now. Until you hear your unit with the noise and glare removed, you are not aware how much was in the way and what you were missing. I have a friend who is going to demo the ST 225 in a couple weeks with his Soundlabs, so will get to here their new product soon in his very high end system. Maybe he will arrange a visit for the ST 225 at my house :) I thought I heard you have listened to the ST 225? How was it in your opinion? |
Jsala- MAybe the ST 225 is something to consider down the road. Paul and Brian are quite excited about the product. For TRL with their worldclass SOTA tube preamp and amp experience to get excited about a SS integrated is something of note. If I can get my buddy to bring it over here for a couple days, I will let you know what it sounds like to my ears. Brian told me something about being able to easily tell when Branford Marsalis was swaying his head during a solo!! It is probably a little out of my price range right now, but it doesn't hurt to look :) (At least that is what I tell my wife). |
Jsala Yes, my RAM modded Toshiba has the full mod which DOES include the Super Clock 3. I prefer the McCormack to it though - The UDP1 just appeals to me more. A bit warmer sounding than the Toshiba, I would say. The UDP is a fantastic sounding "universal" player. The TRL is the way to go, as far as pure redbook and SACD are concerned. Looking forward to hearing everyone elses impressions of their TRL machines. |
Lkdog, Sounds good. Looking forward to your comments on the ST-225. A new amp would be a bit down the road for me as I need to first burn in the TRL SA14. I'd be curious about how warm and musical and engaging the ST-225 would be. Seems like you are quite happy with the modded A300. Used, these would be great buys now. I have a tube pre right now and I don't relish the thought of retubing it down the road (6 tubes, need to recalibrate, etc). Oldpet, Glad to hear that the TRL-Marantz SA14 comfortably beats the best RAM Toshiba. I had considered buying one of those and, sure, the SA14 turned out more expensive but I don't mind spending more in this case on better sound and build quality. If I like the voicing of the SA14 then I'd probably stick to TRL mods in the future! |
For the record, my Sony 2000ES player just passed the 300 hour break-in mark. Everyone of you who guided me on what to expect during these harrowing but musical hours I give my thanks. While I enjoyed the player, I felt the bass was not happening but due to my fellow cousins and others I hung in there. Well the journey is over. The bass is awesome! The Sound of the TRL Sony 2000es is rich with body, weight where it should be on instruments that demand it, and a wonderful full soundstage with lots of air and dimension. For the price of the mod and the cost of the Player, this is a runaway hit. The bass now goes further down with nice articulation and very little smearing. I have to thank Ric Cummings for making a speaker that allows me to hear so well into the low frequencies. Thanks to Donnie for making a superb preamp and amplifier and to Paul of TRL for making it all happen. The SA-14 is better than what I am hearing? This is unreal! |
I just received my TRL SA14 yesterday. It was very well packed -- it must have taken a good 10 minutes to unpack... the sequence was something like: - open outer box - remove styrofoam and bubble wrap placed along the sides to insulate inner box from outer box - lift out inner box - remove layers of bubble wrap inner box wrapped in - open inner box - remove several layers of bubble wrap wrapped around SA14 - remove several more layers of bubble wrap wrapped perpendicularly to previous layers - remove several layers of saran (plastic cling) wrap Only then, finally, was the SA14 unpacked! Even the remote and the CRL power cable were meticulously wrapped in bubble wrap. I did this at 1am so I didn't have time to even plug in the SA14, which I hope to do tonight though I am getting home late again. |
La45- I told you something happened to my TRL Sony 595 right at the 300 hours break in point. I ended up adjusting my sub (ACI Titan) gain level back a bit as the bass just kicked in at that break in point. It sounds like you are very very happy with the synergy of your system. It is exciting to hear this story. I have a long way to go right now with the TRL modded MF A300 integrated amp, and the newly received TRL Marantz SA14 tonight. The amp now has 100 hours and the SA14 has 20 minutes!!! LOL. Jsala- Yes, TRL packs these things like I have never seen in my life. Short of Fedex actually driving over the box with the truck-I don't see how anything bad can happen in shipping route! Let us know how it is sounding and I will do the same. The Marantz SA14 has very nice build quality. |
Buynow- The general email for TRL on their CONTACT US page is: [email protected] He has another email, but I don't have that on this computer. The website is: http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/index.htm There are phone numbers there in the CONTACT US weblink on the Home page if you would rather call Paul or Brian at the shop. |
I was able to hook up the TRL SA14 this evening. I have not taken any special care, I just plunked it on top of my pre-amp, using rubber-cork-rubber isolation feet. The hardest part was wrestling the CRL Silver power cord into place as it is thick and quite stiff. Eventually, I won. These players are said to take 500 hours to break in, what more with a brand new power cord containing a huge chunk of metal. So I expected the sound to be poor, perhaps irritating and unmusical. Well, I'm glad to be wrong. It sounds musical and coherent. Right off the bat it displayed flashes of brilliance. As it warmed up it opened up and displayed very good dynamics and deep, tight bass. Actually, it does very little wrong even now and it sounds simply coherent and musical. It isn't yet the best digital I've ever heard as it is sometimes a bit veiled and grainy at the top end, but it absolutely kills the Marantz 9500 and my Scott Nixon TubeDac in every way. Play one of Paul's expertly recorded CDs and wow it sounds natural. In general, the TRL SA14 seeks to get out of the way of the music and just let it flow as a coherent whole. The PRAT is very good and I find myself... for the first time in many many long months... getting immersed in the music and feeling its rhythm and emotion and intuitively feeling the interplay of the various rhythms, instruments and voices. I'll stop for now. I am quite pleased with the TRL SA14 and am very excited that after 500 hours I can expect it to sound much better. Even the way it sounds now, the $550 is very very much money well spent. This is going to be a great month. FYI, my system consists of: TRL Marantz SA14 -> Joule Electra LA-100 Mk3 tube pre -> Acoustic Reality eAR Two digital amp -> nOrh 9.0 marble speakers. The SA14 is fed by a balanced power supply, totally isolated from the rest of the system which is fed by another balanced power supply. Cables are from CRL, Bolder Cable, Slinkylinks and Acoustic Reality. I use Echobuster acoustic treatments on the wall behind the speakers and in the room corners by the ceiling. |
Hesitant to state any impressions of the TRL SA14 right now as I have only actually listened to two songs ----from a Joshua Redman/Pat Metheny CD (WISH); and a Wynton Marsalis (Hot House Flowers)CD. Had it sitting overnight for 12 hours now breaking in. I also lubed up the Marantz RCA connectors and power cord inlet IEC with Quick Silver contact enhancer(which takes 72 hours to settle down). I also, of course, have my integrated MF A300 amp which was modded by TRL and has only five days break in (that will take around four weeks according to TRL). Soooo, the following comments are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. First impressions- Very sweet, pure, musical and engaging. Very defined on bass, but slightly shy on lower midbass and deep bass weight or heft right now. That is all for now :) The fun is just beginning I think :) I will post my SYSTEM specs here later today so folks can see my setup specifics. |
Lkdog, It seems like you and I are hearing much of the same from our unbroken-in TRL SA14s. Yes, the sound is sweet, pure and engaging, with a great sense of coherence that creates the illusion of listening to real people. For example in The Corr's live unplugged album, Andrea Corr sounds Irish and her inflections and even any hesitancy or minor errors on her part are now very audible, but they somehow make her sound more human and makes the performance seem more real. This player has the most tuneful and tight bass I've heard in my system. Deep bass can be a bit light on some recordings but on others it is all there (e.g. Maroon 5)... the player may need more break-in but it may also be the recording. Don't know. The fun truly is just beginning. I don't mean to gush... but the TRL SA14 already sounds very good, and I have spent over a year listening to bad digital as I completely revamped my digital front end. |
Wow. This is a great thread. Lots of good info and candid experiences. Its better than reading a magazine. LKD very interested in the TRL Integrated amp when its finally broken in. Keep us posted. What TRL recording? Please cough up some info on this I am very interested to know if Paul has copies available. Thanks |
Hey guys- Posted my modest SYSTEM specs in my signature if anyone is interested to know what the TRL Marantz SA14 is mated with. It is hard to be patient during a break in period, but it is also fun to hear changes as they evolve! OldPet- I should follow my own advice and encouragement about bass development in the TRL modded digital sources. I spent the weekend with the TRL Sony 595 which I loved for the full tuneful bass so moving to the newly modded SA14 is an adjustment again. Jsala- Yes, the bass is very musical and tuneful. My ACI Titan sub never sounded so clean! I am sure that the "heft" I was used to with the TRL Sony 595 will blossom over time. I was listening to a Charlie Haden bass solo on the Metheny/Redman CD and it did sound live. You are right, even out of the box the air and ambience of the venue and around the players is already quite pronounced which creates a live sound. La45- Yes, this is a lot of fun. The most fun I have ever had with this crazy hobby. Will keep you posted on the amp and SA14 break in. The amp mod really lowered the noise floor-I am now hearing things I never did on very familiar recordings and the digital glare is largely almost completely removed (and that was with the TRL 595, not the TRL SA14). Well...You know-that typical TRL treatment that they do! I am really liking the amp changes from the mod. Will keep the equipment burning in 24/7. I am taking a trip over the holiday weekend so I will not be tempted to listen over the weekend. Regards to all and thanks for your insights. |
La45 Paul has a record lable called Fidelis Records. I think he only has 3 SACDs available right now. (I may be incorrect on this.) They are recorded (DSD) in live environments such as churches, art museums etc. and are really beautiful. I have all three discs: (provided by Paul) 1. "Violoncello" - excellent 2. "Tchiakovsky 'The Seasons' arranged for piano trio" - also excellent 3. Astor Piazzolla Histoire du Tango - Haven't gotten to this one yet. If you like well, and I mean well, recorded chamber music, you should really check them out. The staging is amazing. You can really 'see' the players in their places as they perform. I know Paul has MANY copies he would like to move. :-) Best paul |
Yup, with the TRL SA14 my system is now pumping out a lot of deep, tight and tuneful bass. My system isn't built for bass-heads -- I have an ACI Force sub (little bro of the Titan) and, while my main speakers are running full range and are spec'ed to go down to 33 Hz, there is a limit to the quantity of bass that the Scanspeak Revelator 5.5" woofer can pump out. That said, it is sufficient to produce natural bass that is balanced with the rest of the frequency system. My system is audio-only, so no need to reproduce cannons, T-Rexes, etc. |
Jsala- Jes45 is probably the expert on QuickSilver. If you go to their website, I think he has his impressions/review of the product posted there. I did not notice any drawbacks before-only positive changes in presence and focus of the sound presentation. The science behind it makes sense to me. If you don't like it-simply wipe it off with alcohol or DeOxit. It does take most of three days to settle down after application. You won't like it the first two+ days. As far as the bass on the SA14-my setup has two major things going on right now with the integrated amp burning in and the then also the SA14 unit burning in. The bass is very clean, tight, and musical. I am sure it will fill out with that additional minor increment I am used to in my system when both the amp and SA14 break in. I listen to all kinds of music, but mostly a lot of late 50's and early 60's jazz ensembles (Miles, Adderley, Coltrane, Monk, Burrell, Brubeck, Smith, etc). So I really am not what one would call a bass afficiando, but I do like to feel the weight of the lower end a bit as long as it is consistent and not out of place with the recording. |
Lkdog: Thanks for your praise, but I'm no expert. Quick Silver is an amazing product, period. The only downfall of the prodcut is that in audio applications, the sound will suck (bad) for the first 24 to 36 hours. I just let my player run on repeat for 36 hours, came back and shook my head, the sound improved so much! I've found that you want to use the least amount possible ... that too much can become a problem. (This can probably be said for the other silver conductive pastes, too.) I'd be happy to answer any question regarding Quick Silver from my experience. Either here or at my e-mail [email protected] . Brian Kyle (the manufacturer) answered all of my questions, so he might be a more logical source than me ... I don't make the stuff! In short, it works. I have a customer testimony at the XtremeAV.com web site for those seeking more detail. http://xtremeav.com/TestimonialsQSPage1.htm BTW, I'm very interested in your and Jsala's opinion of the TRL/SA-14. Is it everything you expected? Jack |
I've got about 60 hours on the SA14 now and it is doing well. It continues to be smooth, focused, clean, and coherent. But it is a bit bright on some recordings. Given that it is said to need 500+ hours of break in, I am confident that it will be excellent given how it sounds already. Jack, I will give the Quicksilver a try just before a short business trip this coming week so that it breaks in while I am away! |
Quick update on the break in process- The TRL Marantz SA14 now has about 140 hours of break in time as I was gone for the holiday weekend and just got back this evening. The TRL modded Musical Fidelity A300 integrated now has about 200 hours (9-10 days) of break in on it. Both units will reportedly need at least 500 hours and/or a month or more of break in but I think the character or signature is there at this point. At this point, the sound seems to be maturing quite well. The lower midbass and lower bass that I was waiting on is now developing a nice physical/visceral quality to enhance it's already extended clean musical nature. The overall sound of this setup is very very natural and opening up quite a bit. Jes45- In answer to your question...I had a pretty open mind about expectations. I guess I was hoping for a nice incremental upgrade from the TRL Sony 595 which is a quite wonderful unit itself. I am of the opinion that there is a law of diminishing returns in this crazy hobby and the SA14 plus mod is not cheap, at least for me. Well, let's just say this appears to be all that I was hoping for and more at this point. Money well spent IMHO at this pretty early point in the break in process. Will post more as it evolves. This is a very musical unit. |
