Doug,I was quite aware that-- "that" particular set-up was under construction.Yet,sometimes it is clear that,once the bugs are going to come out,there is going to be something special,down the road.That was my real take on "that" set-up!Yes.I am also aware "The Doshi" is going to find it's way into it,too!I only hope the owner has the necessary time to "really" realize how "special" that system can/will be,as having gotten a recent E-mail,he is bogged down with the drudgery of the issues of tube trouble,and running a successful business.He gave me the impression(I never told him this)of having a real "talented perception" of what this hobby is about.Excellent concept of what components match,without the typical "latest is greatest"syndrome,affecting his sensibilities.There IS a knack to this hobby,and he "definitely" has it.
I hope to send an E-mail to him,admonishing a suspected "incosistent" approach to "consistently" be more hands on,and "realize" the system(I know what's coming)will be fascinating.We work too hard,and life is too short,to not take more advantage of the "little personal" things,that give us so much pleasure."Big Shot" entrepenuer or not "C..LO",you deserve to savor what you started,now that it's close to being finished!!It's never really finished,btw!
That particular combo of stuff was quite "right",in lieu of being a work in progress!No?
BTW,how about the combination of those "rediculously underrated" main speakers,with the addition of the Townshends,and the Stentor!!To me,a tough combination to beat,in a real-world room,and it took much more than luck to come up with the idea of fielding that combo.The "intuitive" ability!
Bc3,I do love your educated comments,and having owned reel to reel for years(why did I sell my Tandbergs?),you are on the money.As usual!
Yet,the business of "automatically" assuming the smallness of the room,and simplicity of "that" system being the sole factor of my,and a dozen other fellas(exhibitors,with a load of mileage in the hobby,btw)"knowing" something special was happening there,really does not do service to the "actuality" of what this guy(Charles King) was capable of.He is,also,a contributor to the "gorgeous" hard cover book,that has just come out,focusing on the Classic Stellavox Reel to Reels.He re-builds,and heavily modifies these units,as well as his two main systems,so unless one is lucky enough to hear what this guy can come up with,one has no clue as to how "his stuff" can sound.
The VTV show was abundant with small,simple systems.This system I speak of was something "special".You're going to have to take my word for it(actually,why?),like I have to accept your opinion of the Orpheus.
I was fortunate enough to hear the ASR/Nola "Big Boy" system,about two weeks later.Very well set-up,in a custom room.It was everything the press has described,but after about 45 minutes it was just a bit "overwhelming" to me.Like being at a wedding,or other occasion,and being seated close to the band.Not my thing.
Just my own taste.I prefer a bit more "intimate" sound,though still full range(obviously the vtv set-up was limited in bass,but BOY was it good),sort of,NO,exactly like the system I head,last Thanksgiving,in Florida.
Sorry if I seem a bit defensive.You clearly have a very good perspective,and you have not misrepresented you thoughts at all.
It has been a real pleasure reading your posts.Just stop "forcing me" to find a way to spend more cash.I know,I know...you don't have your hand in my pocket,but it sure feels that way -:)
Best! |
Sheeesh!I never meant to imply exclusive lp listening sessions of piccolos."GADZOOKS!!Da ya think I sit with all my Piccolo discs at hand( I don't even know how many I have),going through the haze of "rooty toot,toots"?
Also,NOT solo piccolos,but sometimes in the fabric of the piece,being interpreted.
If any of you have the EMI/Melodiya pressing of Rachmananoff's Vespers,with the multiple male/female voices,please relate as to how well your cartridge fleshes out the distinction between the male and female vocal choirs.As well as the actual "mouthing" of words."Cheeks/lips/tongues"(I think I'm getting turned on).I cannot get this nearly as well as I have heard it with the Air Tangent,in Sid's system.Good is NOT good enough,once you have heard it to this level.The vocalists are going "full tilt" and the energy level is INTENSE,yet it is very well recorded and is AMAZING when done accurately.A "Bitch" to get right and a "classic" lp,and a must hear---THINK, HERE, LINEAR ARM!!!---
I don't mean to be disrespectful,but what I'm referring to,and am clearly incapable,as of now,of getting is something that clearly is a "mini distortion" thing!This I believe to be the actual tangency,and minute distortions that ride along with the music.Some may be OK with this.C'mon!How much more forgiving of system performance,were any of you,even three years ago.I bet the Schroeder Ref can take a good crack at it.No bearing distortions!!
It is completely possible that I simply "stink",in getting my system set correctly,and maybe some of my componentry is not up to the task.I believe it is more "me",and what I "must " have from my lp's(but am beginning to become aware of the resonances that cannot be squashed,in a normal pivoting arm),having been exposed to a superb linear arm,on a massive table.
I hope I have not inferred anyone is not getting what they claim.I simply have not heard it "anywhere",other than my friend,and I have listened for this "type" of reproduction(not necessarily piccolos,but the energy of that frequency,sort of)on a load of really maxxed out systems.
Everyone has a Holy Grail.It used to be a great backhand,to me.Now it's lp reproduction,like "my boy" has!This can take a music lover,into the Golden years,with a smile on the face.So many great lp's out there,to find.
Passages employing the Harp,being played at pretty loud levels,will also do a "job" on the "Stylus/Groove" interface.The "sustain",and pitch/glow of the string,resonating!And I know it's easy to "know" it's a harp.Go hear the exact disc,on a good Linear arm,and then tell me it is as convincing on a pivot(I have a pivot,for those who don't already know).Then I'll take anyone's word,at face value.
I was touching on the "fact" that the type of "energy" touched off by loud piccolo blasts,ain't easy for a cartridge to navigate.It is a tracking thing,and a really good linear arm vs a pivot comparison will clear this up,and fast.Guaranteed!!
Best!
Mark |
Well,I do believe my pal is about to order his Orpheus!I have a few questions,and do believe Nsgarsh may be of help,if you can.Please!
Nsgarsh,you make mention of the dealer,selling this design,new,for 2650.Is this the same guy who has been E-mailing me his extensive listing every few months?He also sells Koetsu/My sonic Lab,Benz,as well as selling stuff like CAT/Avalon/MBL/Purist etc,all at a really compelling discount.
The guy seems legit,as he's been E-mailing me for about two years,and I have been forwarding his listings(I forgot his name)to my friend,who is now ULTRA HOT(thank goodness) to go Orpheus REAL soon(like in the next week or two).I know the regular dealer trade-in,against already owning a Temper-v/w is 2550 PLUS our cartridge.If this web dealer is legit(he claims to have great feedback)I see no reason not to give him some business,and sell the Tranny's my pal and I have privately.A great deal,all the way around,I hope!
Also,as a starting point,for me to begin to make some meaningful comparisons,to the Temper-v(which my pal and I both have,and like)if anyone can shed some light as to the differences in design(there does NOT seem to be much,here,other than output and resistence,which may equate to "whatever")to the Temper,I'd be most beholding.
The info,on the Orpheus states a newer non resonant body,yet I wonder if it is actually a new material,or simply newer shape.Also,I am having a hard time discerning(I never claimed a high IQ)if the Orpheus' specs declare this coil/magnet design to be more advanced than the Temper-v/w,or basically the same design(yokeless ring magnet),with a bit more output,and a gram more weight.
Obviously I will find out real soon.Actually my friend has already gotten the wine,to be served,in his little "rack"(not equipment rack,btw).I think I'll be goofing off that day,and leaving work early.Thank goodness I'm the boss.I really can't wait,for some fun in my life,these days!
Well,I want to be very careful,and guarded in any comments I might post,so any meaningful input will be of help...Thanks!
Best to all,
Mark |
Nsgarsh,Oh "now" I get it!Sorry if I seemed a bit slow,on the uptake.
Tim,I have no idea,as of now,but am setting up an Orpheus very soon.I'll post my "opinion",at that time.
Best! |
Nsgarsh,for my business,I had five Taurus wagons,over thirteen years(leases).Total repair costs,from defective problems, was literally less than 150 dollars,combined!!
As to the cartridge issue.THANKS!!This "IS" the guy,and the 2750 price is not a problem,though my pal will ask only about 1350 or so for his perfectly operating Tranny-v!
As to the "design factor" being the "telling" factor when chosing a cartridge,I really could care less.It's ALL about performance,and a pin on a string would be fine with me,if it sounded the way I like.
Actually when I viewed(sight,not sound)the ZYX Univ,I thought to myself "what a cheapo looking casing,that deserves a more cache look",based on the price of five large!!Yet the SOUND,believe me,was CACHE,and BIG TIME!That's how I heard it,and I have no clue as to it's "uniqueness" of design,and could care less.It was "fabuloso"!BTW,so is my friend's Titan,and another friend is "APESHIT" over the performance of his Koetsu Coral.This guy has the Titan,and Olympos,but swears the Coral,with it's zillion year old coral stone body,is unmatched.Especially on vocals.I guarantee it would be even better if it was made of fossilized eggroll shells!!But what do I know?
Who knows,as to "the design parameters" of these cute little transducers,and their performance,based on design(?).I just want the musical facts,and hope to NOT rationalize my own opinion(I'm not accusing you of anything,btw,just my usual rant)when I give the Orpheus the "go round"!
I'll be doing the set-up(yutz that I am,while my friends "work me" like a marionette...get up,tweak/sit down...get up tweak/sit...over and over and over.Until I literally want to strangle one of them).Of course,I love it,though,and put on my own little "tired act",in order to snag some quality vintage wines,out of my usual reach.Heh,heh!
I have a sneaky suspicion that this Orpheus will be a better match for my Graham 2.2,than the Temper-v.I'll do cartwheels if so.Just a hunch,but if I am correct my fanaticism with the fluid/vta/downforce may vanish.I HOPE!!!
As of the here and now(in my pal's set-up,since mine has been down,but I did FINALLY get my amp back yesterday,and it seems to weigh about thirty pounds more,so we'll see soon)I have ALWAYS detected a very subtle dryness in the 2.2/Temper combo.I recall,also being aware of this in my set-up way back,when I had music.Though I have just ordered a new PS-Audio P-300 line regenerator,for line source components,which may put the kabbash on this(possibly).Also,the addition of two Hi Fi Tuning fuses in the pre/phono,of my pal(I have the exact same)was HUGE in aiding performance.I was really against this,but there was NO denying the improvement.Much to look forward to.
If the Orpheus is less resonant(a claim they make)and tracks better,as well as having a tad more cartridge weight,it will most likely mate with my 2.2,a bit better( I don't care about output,as my phono section has LOADS of really clean gain),then I may have a nice fall/winter listening season ahead.Trust me,I deserve one!!
Best!...And thanks for the quick response!! |
"There is so much room to improve and refine this smart new Transfiguration design.By comparison,the traditional designs have basically hit a performance ceiling."!!
TRADITIONAL??.. BOY,Nsgarsh....I'm not SO convinced it is really all that academic.Especially in the field of Hi End Audio.
If that were the case I guess all my tube loving friends should just sell out,and go all solid state!BTW,I have only three tubes,in my set-up,so am merely making a point.
You simply cannot assume design, alone,as in the case you make for the "automatic" superiority of the Orpheus(have you heard it yet?),will prevail.
I totally trust your general knowledge,and almost always agree with your solid reasoning,BUT...even though I am INCREDIBLY interested in the Orpheus,I STILL have to have my musical senses convinced,which will only come from an audition.A very long one,at that!!I mean no disrespect,and understand your scientific approach.Yet....
Sorry,but since I am very possibly(no guarantee)going to obtain one,should I like(alot)the results we get at my friend's place,then, and ONLY then will the "superiority of the design",from a technical aspect,interest me.At that point I'll begin to get excited about "coils,and tolerences etc",as then it will all make sense to me.
I have been at this game a long time,as I am sure you,and many have.I love the technical advantages so many components offer as "better",yet not all that many "really" ecclipse their competitors.Lots of stuff performs great,and gets better,when put into a set-up that has the appropriate synergy of componentry.You know this too,btw.
So, as for the Orpheus,I'm taking more of a wait(with baited breath)and see approach,before I get too excited.
I hope your enthusiasm for it's technical superiority is correct,and I will LOVE to say I'm sorry,for not giving it the automatic "thumbs up",you seem to be doing so,as of now.
BTW,I have heard the Dynavector(xv-1s),and it was magnificent.I don't think it's owners are too worried about what's new on the horizon.Same should go for the vast majority of the great designs.Though I had a fleeting listen to an Allaerts,which was really nice,but too short a listen.Which brings us to the Orpheus....
I mean,let's face it........it could not possibly be as good as the "other cartridge" favored on this forum. Heh,heh,heh..... -:) |
BTW,Nsgarsh...I love the bass enclosure configuration,you use with the "Classic"(fabs)Martin Logans.Sort of reminds me of my old(yet not forgotten)Infinity speakers,which my friend was smart enough to keep,and modify.Still SOTA in SO many ways.
Best! |
Dear Julian Hersch,I mean Nsgarsh.....I'm not so sure it really is such a "B F Deal",as you put it.
That is my point!AND believe me,I hope the Orpheus blows away my Temper-V.I will certainly get it immediately,if that happens.BTW,don't be so quick to dismiss the Univ,or some of the other designs,for "features sake".I have heard quite a few of these,and could easily live with them.With a smile on my face.To be honest,the Univ(though it has been talked about "ad Nauseum")is everything stated about it,based on my few hrs spent with it.The Dynavector is almost perfect,to me,with the Titan coming close,and the Myabi is fabulous,too,but a bit romantic.YMMV.All this is only my opinion anyway,which means "nada"!
Do you know for sure,if the "O" Has a much more refined coil "Schtick" as opposed to the Temper-V?
It is also no stretch to see how the Mfgr decided to increase the output a "smidgen",change the body(same material),and go from the Temper's 3.0 ohm resistence to the new,and not so much better 2.5 ohms.Then you have the 1.5 grm increase in weight,and a price increase of 1500 dollars.There's not alot "there".But I did not design it,so maybe I'm being too sceptical.I think my approach is healthy.
Of course,I hope it comes out way ahead of what I already have,but I don't think my way of looking at this(before I decide to invest,and I am "really" ready here)is out of line.It's my money on the line!!Money I will be happy to spend for a real improvement.NOT specs,on paper!!
BTW,when I do set up my friend's "O",I will be completely open minded,and just let the product speak for itself.Besides There will be other ,very experienced hobbyists there.
Let's hope the supply opens up soon,so I can find out,and I will be honest in "our" opinions!
Best!
Mark |
Nsgarsh,firstly,you know I love ya,so don't take me too seriously.
Anyway,alot of your comments,admittedly,are based on conjecture,and from my years in the hobby,I have seen LOADS of "advanced" products sink,like the Titanic.
I have NO doubts that the Orpheus will be a fine performer,but am not convinced it will "meaningfully" outperform the competition,until I hear it.Been down this road,alot!
Let's face it,I am the one who turned my friend on to it,and would not really expect him to spend his cash,if I did not think he would benefit from it.
Also,I AM absolutely ready to try to obtain a unit,and have already spoken with a fine dealer,about this.Should it "clearly" outperform the Temper-V!
I STILL stand by my scepticism,and will be happy to let it pass,if the "O" passes the test.In reality,not on paper.
Please don't take my comments as any sort of a "diss".You know this is all fun,anyway,and I have not had too much of a good time,in the last month,so I need to Pick on You a bit -:)...You can handle it anyway,as you are armed with knowledge.
Best! |
Whew,Nsgarsh!Now you are looking much more credible,in your way of approaching whether you,yourself,would spend this kind of dough.Me too!!And I can easily see doing it,in lieu of the admitted fact that I have been down for six months,and want to make some major,"meaningful" moves.Soon.Yet and yet?
Jcarr,has some very valid input,that has to be given consideration,as well!
I mean,if we simply took the technical approach,we would all have sold our analog rigs around 1982,and gone the "Digi" route.No?
Actually in '82,the Princeton Record Exchange had SO vast an analog "stock",of everything viable,that with some inner voice speaking to me,and with the marketing speak,for CD in full gear,I went NUTZZZ collecting the "Primo" lp's we all lust for today!I simply was not "automatically" jumping on the digital bandwagon,at that time,though five years ago I got a fine player,simply because I like alot of the new avante garde stuff,like John Zorn/Pendrecki/Rousse/Terry Riley yada yada.
But...the stuff found on some old lp's will never be recorded again.There is some amazing stuff to still be found.
I love to still look for offbeat stuff,and my friend Sid is "stacked" with Lp's to "really" die for.
BTW,you simply know the "O" is going to garnish raves,from the press!Doesn't everything?
I mean,when I look at some of the reviewers in Hi Fi News and Record Review,many are,already,showing the "O" in their own systems.But I'll bet they did not dig too deep for them.I can just see their own input,when it comes to print.No surprises,I'll bet.So I will still be just a little suspicious.Just a little.But....YES SIR....you bet that it is totally possible that this "tweener" design could have very likely come about to specifically fit a product line category.Business works that way,alot!Do you think Koetsu accidentally discovered some zillion year old coral,while an employee was scuba diving,and inadvertantly put it on a cartridge out of curiosity.Then decided to ask fifteen thousand dollars for one?"IT LOOKS DAMN GREAT",and the "marketing machine" knew it would sell,to the Rolex/Breitling crowd.Afterall there are not alot of bad sounding Koetsus out there.I should know.I had four models over ten years.
Sorry for my lengthly rant,BTW.I won't argue my case anymore either,and will just wait for my friend to come up with it,which is inevitable.Very soon!I HOPE you can say "I told you so",after I audition it,but you had better be prepared to loan me some cash,or maybe feed my family for awhile -:)
Best! |
Well I lied,when I stated I'd not post again.Sorry!
Nsgarsh,I have heard the Magic Diamond in a very high quality setup(walker/Lamm/Kharma)with my own British Decca pressings.It is a wonderful cartridge.IMO,it is NO better than the other fine designs,which overcrowd(not really)the high end.That is NOT a criticism!To me,and the way it sounded on my own vinyl,it is no better than the Temper.It IS a wonderful cartridge,though,but you can save alot on gas,by not having to cross over any state lines!See!!I already saved you money.
In honesty,the two standout cartridges I have heard,in the last year are the Dynavector,and Univ.Followed closely by the Titan-i.All this means NOTHING,though,as it is only my own tastes and perceptions,as well as types of music I like.
I don't include the Temper-v here,ONLY because to me,when some hobbyist "toots" about what they own(human nature)there is a credibility issue.As you know,the Temper "series" is absolutely competitive with the best.
I never A/B'd it with the rest,but have to go,solely,on how I perceive musical "convincingness" when hearing a specific design.
Bc3,I decided NOT to go grey market,as did my friend,in scoping out the "elusive O"!Sorry,but elusive it is,and the fine dealer who sold us the Tempers,as well as the previous Temper Supremes states there is a short supply,though this will sort itself out in a few short weeks.
I find it hard to believe he does not know what he is talking about,as he can make an instant sale,with my friend.He has always been completely honest with us,and is one reason I like to deal with him.
As to the grey market issue...There is a good reason it exists."Cost Savings"!Yet to me,as of my last conversation with my own little hobbyist group,and common sense,I see no reason to take such a chance with a "pricey"/delicate investment.The regular dealer "way",with a fair trade-in,seems to be the way for me.Just,please don't go over the top with the trade-in costs,or you risk the possibility of making it viable to sell the Temper,used,and buy a different attractive design,based on some particular dealer wanting to gain a sale,with ahealthy discount.this happens alot.I mean no disrespect here,and hope your own input holds up,when I do finally check it out.
Best! |
OK Bc3,I'll bite.Firstly, your description of the differences in musical presentation of the "O" over the Tempers(around later than 2000,btw)is a "glowing" testimonial as to it's clear superiority!I don't detect the word "subtle" anywhere.I hope you are right.
The comment about not over-saturating high frequencies,like "piccolo blasts",was a cold splash of water to me!It is just here,where the big boys stand apart from the wanna be pretenders.NOT necessarily in the actual cartridges we sport,but the hobbyist's ability to actually get that particular parameter "right".I can't!I think I know what I'm doing,too.This has ALWAYS been a "sticking point" with me,and I have heard few systems that can really "do piccolos",at volume,using the LP.DAMN HARD!!
Surely,you must be a better man than I,and if you have not overstated your pride of ownership in the "O",you are on "Holy Ground"!Piccolo blasts at high volume,on classical repertoire,as recorded on the much sought after,early pressing discs we all have come to love(I'm talking of English,not Dutch,Deccas,EMI,Lyrita,Argo,Orig early Shaded Dogs,some black label Vanguard Stereolabs,and the Early maroon label Mercury series lp's)are almost "impossible" to get right,from disc to disc.I have heard only one system,owned by a friend that can do this convincingly,and consistently.And I really believe that owner's room is located between two black holes,where the laws of physics break down.It has almost been my own personal "Holy Grail"!Are you claiming the average yutz,like me,can,maybe gat this?"I dunoh about dat"!You better re-read your post,and maybe make an appology,for getting my blood pressure up!
NOW,your comments are,in actuality an endorsement of something that I may have to kill for,if true,and I don't want to break any laws,or hurt anyone.I hope you fudged your findings a bit(C'mon,admit it.You did.Right?),or possibly you had a bit too much Merlot,when you claim to have heard such piccolo at volume,performance.Flutes maybe?I could live with that-:)
BTW,it would be quite interesting to know what supporting componentry allowed for such observations,that have me "running for my checkbook"!
Best!
Hey,is this my pal,Eddie,kidding around with me? -:)
|
Jtimothea...so true!"The heart of piccolodeum",ILOVE that!!
Actually as to all this piccolo business,I'm not talking about recognizing the instrument,as such.It is clear,on a good set-up,as to "it" being a piccolo,What I have never heard,is the correct timbre of the instrument(in playing lp's),as well as the actual bit of air,and slight vibrant,almost rich, etheral quality that is seemingly imposible to get.Almost a roundness to the frequencies.Sorry,but it is hard to describe,and easy to actually think we have it right.The piccolo analogy is "Perfect",for such a difficult performance parameter,with the best "tiny transducers",and other reproducers of musical signals.
I have only heard this on my friend's system,with the Air Tangent,and his Titan/Art/ultra modded Infinity speakers.I cannot get this,to the degree I am talking of,with my own set-up,even though,on paper,my system stands up to my friend's.Previously,I would have to adjust for vta frequently,for each disc,whereas my friend can simply sit back and have it,almost dead on,CONSTANTLY.Lp to Lp,and label to label(the Black Hole thing,I guess).The lucky bastard!Maybe my new audio "gizmos",and the new,more accurate stylus pressure guage can aid me,but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW,who am I to doubt if any of you guys can obtain this!!Sorry for my arrogance,here.It has just been SO damn hard to get this parameter "really right" for me,the way I "need" to hear it,as well as another frustrated audio pal of mine,that I don't want to have the "I can recognize it's a piccolo",confused with "WOW,listen to that breathy timbre,and natural TOOT,on that darn piccolo".There IS a difference!That difference seperates really great musical reproduction from merely very good.Trust me.All of my variables,as to other components are in order.Cables etc.It's a "tracking/voicing/intricate setting" thing.Of that I am sure!If the Orpheus can ameliorate this,for me,I will consider myself set,in this hobby.
Boy,I'm getting carried away,and I'm sorry,but ponder this piccolo business when some of you fine 'philes are fotzing around with voicing.It can be a big help,over time.
Best! |
SORBOTHANE PANDA PAWS!!Only in this hobby-:) I DO love it!!
You know,I am not making any attempts to be a contrarian,or doubter,but I simply must take the "on paper" superiority of ANY product with a good grain of salt.
Clearly,I like the Temper-v alot,yet I simply won't dismiss some of the other designs,as not being equal,or maybe better(and I'm not talking about technical superiority).That goes for the Orpheus too,and in all likelyhood I will probably get an "O",this fall/winter.
Even if I do decide to obtain one,and find it sensational,it still does not equate to a better musical performance,as compared to cartridge A,B,or C,provided they are employed in a proper set-up.Too much good stuff out there,and how "smug" is it to feel something one owns,is the "best"!There is always something better,or "competitively viable" in the right system.BTW,please don't think I am speaking to anyone in particular.I'm making a generalization.
Sorry,but I have actually heard some systems,consisting of older/outdated(supposedly)stuff that was directly competitive with what we "think" is the "latest",or "best"!
This happened to me at the VTV show in Jersey,this summer.I had mentioned this on some little thread,with my usual overblown word length(hey,I'm bored).The particular demo was actually a "private" room,whose occupier was at the show,simply to give a lecture on the joys of reel to reel tape play.
This wonderfully entertaining fellow(Charles King)was having some pals in his room,to hear some 7" reels he acquired,from a collection.Jazz,opera.
His demo system was simply a 10 wpc rebuilt/modded Dyna tube amp,with a MAGNIFICENT Stellavox re-built/modded(Mr King mods these "treasures")reel to reel.Think Leica,as to how these tiny "more gorgeous than Nagra" looking tape front ends appear!WOW!
The speakers were two way,small monitors.Custom built,and an actual clone of the Rogers LS3/5A!!
Of course nobody knows my own tastes,but virtually everyone stumbling into this "unofficial" room was "Floored",by the presentation of a huge,deep,incredibly dynamic(really surprising),and tonally amazing sonic experience.I swear,it was in the top two or three sounding set-ups I have ever heard.
Nobody left that room,once they sat down.Really!!Most of the folks coming in,were actually exhibitors,themselves.ALL were absolutely amazed.AND ALL mentioned that this was "special"!!
A little "nothing" system,costing little,and SMOKING stuff listing at over 100 "thou"!Hmm!
Sorry for my rant(not really),but it's just a point,to consider.Specs mean "nada"!techno dribble means "nada"!Yes,it's important,but it only goes SO far!!Also,anybody thinking his/her system is the best they have ever heard,really needs to get out,and hear more systems.Privately owned ones!
Best! |
Nsgarsh,the electrician will be DONE,before I leave.I do want to get to my pal as early as possible.
The pre/phono is a fully maxxed out,and totally rebuilt(by Great Northern Sound)Audio Research SP-15.All new Black Gate caps/Siemens CCa's in phonostage.A KILLER unit!!!A total rebuild,over stock unit.
A question,for you,and if Bc3 is still lurking.....My friend tells me that the distributer recommendeds a tracking force at the 2 gram limit,as best.I never liked my Tranny beyond the highish 1.8's(1.82-1.87,for me).My friend has my exact arm/table.BTW,the distributer,also,has a 2.2.Just coincidence.
What tracking force do you use.Just curious,as obviously set-ups vary,but the recommendation of "not lower than 1.95" doesn't ring right,to me!
Best!
Mark |
Actually,right out of the box,I felt the "V" was considerably better,than the "Temper-Suprems"!I have never been a big fan of any cartridge requiring more than about fifty hrs of break-in.
Best! |
Bc3,glad you mentioned this.The distributor told my pal to run at 2.0 gms.I felt this should be a bit too high,without checking other weights,but was going to check all forces,starting at 1.8 gms,and moving up,from there.TIME CONSUMING,but mandatory!!The loading interests me,as I DID have my "V" at 60 and 100 for a time,but wound up liking dynamics and freq extremes better at 47!Maybe the "O" will want a different setting.OK by me.
Best! |
OK,finally got to my pal Friday afternoon.Kept thinking,to myself,this better be worth it,as I was greeted by New York traffic the moment I got off the Verazzano bridge!
I deserved more than "a little better than the Temper-v" performance,for having to put up with the barrage of lousy drivers,on the road,as well as 40 dollars(what a rip-off)in gas and tolls!..........Was it worth it?.........
Well,so as anyone knowing my propensity for bloviating can make an early exit,from this post,just read Bc3's comments,or Nsgarsh's assessments,and you will have a "dead on" answer.They nailed it,and with the help of Doug Deacon's antiskate postings,you all made my EIGHT HOURS of playing around with "voicing" alot easier!!THANKS!
I felt like an indentured slave,but did not complain.NOT ONE BIT!!!Here's my schtick.......
I felt the difference in price between my original Temper Supreme and my Temper-v was only about six hundred dollars list.I think!The difference in performance,there,was quite significant,as the "V" was a far more relaxed and detailed performer.A good deal,in terms of an upgrade.
Here,with the "O",the difference in price is about 1700 dollars.Almost 300 percent more,of an increase,over the "Supreme" vs "v" upgrade.Short story...Supreme listed at about 3200 dollars/"V" at 3800/"O" at 5500!!!!It better be good,not "a little better",was how I went into this!
So we set about painstakingly doing what all us obsessed 'philes do.
I'll mention some discs we played,for making certain judgements about the usual parameters,like dynamics/tracking/timbres/frequency extremes.etc!
EMI-asd2369..Eric Satie(Parade,Relache,Ballets) Paris Conservatoire Orch/Louis Auriocombe,cond WHEW---this is a GREAT disc(I don't have it)and is really hard to get,but has incredible dynamics(percussion alluding to actual gunshots,typewriter,flutes,vibraphones,etc)and is a BITCH to track cleanly.With the "V",I could always get it do do dynamics,but with a touch of "leaness of timbre,and textures".This killed the listening experience,if one was trying to get away from a Hi-Fi effect,and hear the beauty of the music.
WELL,the "FRIGGIN" Orpheus nails the crap out of this disc!!Everything the "V" did,but added tonal beauty to boot.I was starting to get depressed,but kept on with my vigil!
Next up,wasVerdi's Rigoletto...DECCA SET-542 with Sutherland Pavoratti and Milnes.Side six is the killer here,with great vocals,dynamics to burn and an incredible thing to hear,when Pavarotti moves back,and to the side of the stage,as he is singing full tilt.WHEW!..the "O" is getting EVEN BETTER,to me,and I'm getting more depressed as I'm now beginning to make mental plans for scrounging up some extra cash.ALOT of cash,sadly!
Disc after disc...from Britten's Prince of the Pagodas(huge scale)to Muddy watters and JuniorWells,and from Ella and Louis to Copland,the same results.The "O" kept getting better,and I kept getting more depressed.
The "O" has something the "V" does not.Here,if the system is really good,a "little better"(not really) becomes "ALOT BETTER"!REALLY!!!
The "O" does not have the subtle bleaching of timbre,that the "V" has.Mostly in crescendo,or tough to track stuff,with the "V".This is something almost all the better cartridges cannot get as "almost perfectly" as the "O" does!I think!!So far!!
The "O",to me,really clears up my question of whether my Graham 2.2's fluid/bearing resonant tinge,can ever be emeliorated.IT CAN,and DOES,with the "O"!!It is that good(the "O")!!
Inner details and subtlety are the best I have heard,in my limited experience of thirty five years in the hobby.
BUT the BIG deal,for me,was the FANTASTIC timbral/harmonic GLORY that this magnificent design has.BIG TIME!Talk about a roundness of texture.You really must hear this!
Spacial characteristics were by far the best I have experienced.Space between instruments,between players,the whole nine yards.AND I'M TRYING TO BE SUBTLE!
IT is THAT GOOD....My friend,and I went through multiple diaper changes yesterday.I MUST HAVE IT!!!!
Best(the cartridge too,btw),and sorry for my rant,but I could not help it.
Mark |
Andrew,you are going to Doug,this Wednesday for a Univ vs Orpheus shootout!!!!!!!C'mon,man!
Please make sure one of the judges is not paid off.A'la Don King style.-:)
Just kidding!
Best,
Mark |
I must admit,I am "dying"to get these results!!A year ago,I would have been suspicious of any posts of this nature,but I now have a healthy respect for the guys doing these comparisons!There will be no arguments from me,either way.
As of a week,or so from now,I will be starting either a "UNI" fund,or an "O" fund,with an outside shot of the top Van Den hul,or Blue Mantis.The xv-1s,I believe to be too heavy for my arm.I have made a decision to upgrade cartridges,as of last Friday,which came as a surprise to me.Those poor kids at Halloween will be getting less treats,as I have to scrounge up some extra cash!-:)My only prob with the "UNI",should it emerge the winner,is that Cello found it to not be a great match for his 2.2!
I know the "O" mates well here,but am MOST interested.Since I know the "O" is clearly superior to the Temper-V,which I own.Yet I will be quite happy if the final confirmation comes down in the "UNI" camp.Closure can be a good thing.
Maybe we can set up a "web-cam",and sell this as "coils gone wild"!
Best!
Mark |
Hey,Larry....Better watch what you say,or I'll start a Miami Travel Fund,first!
Best!
Mark |
Andrew,great post!!I must admit we did not try the loading,other than the 47ohm spec.DRATS!!I definitely dropped the ball here,last Friday,but in the past,with Tranny's,we did stay for quite some time(weeks),at 60 and 100 ohms.Always finding our way back to 47 ohms.Sorry,but in my friend's(mine is the same) phonostage that did not give the results you heard.Also,there was a steady stream of music lovers about,who did not complain about the 47 load,as we compared it to the others.This has to be system dependent(I hope,or I may need a new hearing check-up).
I am quite disappointed in myself,that I did not remember to at least check this,last week,as for all I know,the "O" may wind up being better elsewhere.But it sounded just fine to us(then and again,the Temper-v may be lower in performance than the "UNI",which could have exposed these things).I am certainly not about to spend another 40 bucks in gas/tolls,to find out,this week.BTW, I would like to see if more input on downforce appears from other owners of the "O".The distributor was pretty adamant about being closer to 2.0 gms(Bc3,stated this,and wound up at 1.97,which seems a good point of finality).Once we got up there,with good performance at hand,my friend was not too inclined to let me do too much playing,beyond that.
I anxiously await the post by Doug(an understatement),and am actually quite happy with the results found.Fortunately I own no stock in any of these companies,and am in NO camp(on any components,actually),so I am happy to accept the "found" results,as a good guideline.You guys must have had a grand old time!How much fun is a good listening session,shared with other obsessed(in the best way)hobbyist/music lovers?
My only complaint is ......
You could have given some more explicit input,as to exactly what wines were SO enjoyed.Those,I can actually go out and buy,in the here and now!This business of "coils gone wild",takes a little more time to save up for!-:)
Best!
Mark
|
So sorry(for the traffic involved),but I did go back to my friend,this morning.We listened and played around a bit,with his "O".We both feel that we must have had too much wine,last week!How could we have liked it,SO much?Of course it did not change it's characteristics,one bit,but "now" we don't like it anymore!My friend is going to sell it,and get something new).I think he is going to try to become more influenced by some of these posts,and take things from there.It did not mistrack,played virtually everything thrown at it,to a "fairthywell",had fabulous timbres,harmonics,detail,dynamics(top to bottom),incredible soundstage with depth as good as I have heard.To play it safe,we had a number of other hobbyists,from our little group,give it the "go round" by bringing some of their "torture track" lp's over.I feel sorry for them,as they loved this new Tranny,and did cartwheels.Their own set-ups range from Pipe Dream speakers,BIG Infinities,CJ Art II,the big Maggies,and some other standard and custom equipment,but there must have been something in our brew,as everyone was "flabbergasted" by the performance of the "O".
I am really perplexed,as a potential "serious" buyer,as these are the guys who taught me about the hobby,music,record collecting,equipment,mods,tweaks etc.More than a few actually have contributed "alot" to music journalism,yet I cannot allow myself to believe their "over the top" enthusiasm,for this new Transfiguration,knowing Doug has given it ALL that it can attain.Other than "it was not fully broken in".But no other parameters can be addressed because there was no control over them.So, just, maybe, those parameters could not level the playing field if one was say,going to commit to long term ownership.I'm confused.My pals must,surely,be in the dark,for liking the "O" so much.But none of them are moving to a new cartridge,like me.They are happy with their assortment of Koetsus,Olympos's,Coral Stones,Titan's,"V",s,Benz etc.What could they know,for virtually going "ape-shit" over the "O" in one guys set-up?Maybe the set-up was flawed!
Best!
Mark |
Hey,in defense of Doug(really),I believe he and the others heard what was stated.My only bone of contention was there was no assumption of possibly getting better performance with a different set of parameters(forget breakin,eighty hrs is fine).It seemed the "wholey incomplete" results stemmed from the desire to "want" a given result.Do you actually believe anyone would not lend creedence to the possibility of varying set-up(s),vying for ownership of a five thousand dollar product.
When I was so over the top last week,about the "O",I specifically stated there had to be equal to,or better designs.Too much competition.
Are we alone in the universe,just because we have no proof,of other life?Are we the smartest life force,in existence?I assume not!
I actually "deeply" respect Doug/Paul,and actually like these enthusiastic guys,alot!If only you could not have been so wooden,and assumed "more could probably be had"(here,assuming is not a real stretch),with this sort of financial investment.
It's great to love one's stuff,but,sorry,the dice seemed loaded before the shootout!And the results seemed,almost,celebrated.Do you have any real criticism of any components you own,is something all of us should ask ourselves!Alot of guys have really good systems.
Best,and I mean only to instigate good debate.
Mark
|
I am not going to post on this subject again(I hear the applause),but I never picked up on the "stated" vta backward shift,in the Uni vs "O" comparison.That is definitely an incorrect setting in my own,and friend's system.It happens to impact dearly,in how it sounds.A year ago Nsgarsh corrected my own positioning,which was slightly backward.The bottom of the cartridge sounds better when riding parallel to an lp.Of course fine tuning by ear can aid,to an extent,but it "should" look almost "exactly" parallel.Of course that's only an opinion based on two owners of Tranny's.Nsgarsh would make three,I guess.The pre/phonostages in use are not too shabby either,and I won't tout the mfgr,or folks who completely re-built and modded mine.If you carefully read the instructions,coming with the cart.,it states the correct positioning of the stylus tip,when viewed from the side(Nsgarsh re-emphsized this to me last year,as I was a bit in the dark,and had Tranny's for some time,but hey,I slipped up,at the time),which shows a backward stylus tip rake.This correct position is re-inforced with the parallel position.BTW,as my system has been down for six months,I have recently set-up,as of Saturday.With all the new gizmos I have added,I find the 100 ohm setting sounds best,now.See things change!!
Anyone thinking I actually have an agenda is "clueless" as to my intent.I am not insecure regarding my hearing,or set-up,as I have been accused of.To me,my intent was incorrectly interpreted by some.I will be more guarded should I decide to continue,in the future.
A condescending attitude,and preaching about how I should organize my thoughts first(as stated,for the third time by Cello)is actually something I find offensive, and I will state how I feel about any subject.I am greatful for Doug's posting,as well as all else,but I also feel I should listen to my friend(who owns the Orpheus,and who would not bother here'in).
Best!
Mark
|
Nsgarsh is right,once again(what else is new).He has proven,time and time again,to me,that it's OK to be open minded.I have always felt the 47k load was just fine,with my set-up,and my friend has been absolutely adamant about keeping his set there too!This has always influenced me,but when some folks go on a binge,enough times,even though you don't necessarily agree,it can influence some tinkering.Here,my not being so pigheaded has been a gain in sound.And,thanks to guys like Neil,I have alot to learn,still,and am now getting FAR superior sound,at 100 ohms.Thanks Neil!
Best!
Mark |
"Trying to listen,and let the cart tell me what it wants"....Dan a SUPERB point,and one all serious hobbyists should take into account.
Best |
Knowing how the darn "O" sounds,hearing it on many ocassions,now,what's you're problem('s)?Fremer got the gist of it(sound),"dead on",and I'm not a big fan of his.Look at his "now spinning" list.Mostly rock.Not easy to cozy up to,if you are a classical/jazz lover,who lives for detail,and stage presentation,with nice subtlties thrown in.Like myself,and some of my actual "real" friends.
If you techno geeks(not specific to anyone,pleeeeease!!)want to get to the heart of loading,etc,just look back on the later posts by Bc3!!He got it right,too,and I believe my original comparisons hold up well.
Neil,you have all your answers already,so what's the problemo?The Tempers,as I indicated awhile ago,are not in the league of the "O".That's actually good news.I don't want to spend the money,either,but MUST,as of the last few listening sessions.
Just don't put yourself in a position of disagreeable posting,even if well intended,and targeting anyone who may be SO self absorbed that you will get a nasty(as in cowardly/babyish)E-mail.One that gets read by all of your employees and wife,first,who ALL get a bit spooked,as they have been pre-conditioned by the media as to the number of "overly emotional nuts" who dwell there!You're better off just listening to your wonderful system.Doubled up CLS's or not!
Best! |
My pal is about to move up to an Orpheus.He,like me,has a Temper-V,which I set up for him.We both have very similar systems,with identical phonostages/pre's(actually everything is exactly the same,except speakers.He Kharma.Me Avalon),so I will do the new set up,in the very near future.
I will post my opinion,as well as the other listeners,who are present,in a future posting,and will try to be completely independent as to opinion of sound.
The review in the German magazine was woefully incomplete.What did we learn?
Here was another reviewer "making nice",to a new product!What else is new?
We have FAR better input from posters in this "analog" forum,about their opinions,and observations!!
Aoliviero,please don't take my comments as a criticism of your really nice,and good intentions,in posting the review.I thank you for that.
Yet,the review told owners(like me)of the Temper model absolutely nothing,as to a meaningful comparison!Poor audio journalism.Or incomplete,at least!I "SO" wanted some more meaningful feedback,other than "if you play around with loading,you get different musical perspectives"!WHEW!!
Best! |
Well,my friend has tried to obtain an Orpheus.He is running up against the "scarcity" factor.
It seems the distributor is on back order.Are the audiodudes in Europe snatching these up?Are they on to something,that we are not privy to?
Well,my pal is a pit bull,and I'm sure will come up with one very soon.
Just a bit of conjecture,by me......I have been looking very carefully at the difference between the Orpheus and Temper-V,on paper(which cannot be conclusive without a good listen,but does tell me something).
The only meaningful "specs" that stand out are the fact that the Orpheus is 1.5 gms heavier,has a very slightly different body shape(NOT new material),has an internal resistance of 2.5 vs the Temper's 3.0 ohms,and has an output of .48 vs the Temper's .38.That's it!!Hmm!!!
Of course I'm just being very scrutinizing here,and it may mean little,once I set-up my friend's arm,with one.Yet with the marketing done,in the high end,I can't take anything for granted.
Ex:as for the supposedly important internal resistance issue,the ZYX Univ specs at 4 ohms,and 8ohms,based on model selection,while the Myabi Ivory specs at 2 ohms!
I guess it will be all in the LISTENING,but I'm suddenly not so hot to jump on the "new product" bandwagon,just because a new model has come out.
Time will tell,and my Temper-V,with only 250 hours on it,is looking pretty good,with any leftover dough possibly going for the Townshend Super Tweets,that sounded SO amazing at Cello's last fall!I don't REALLY need those either,but they have fascinated me,ever since.Can't shake the possibility!
Best,
Mark |
Doug,thanks SO much,for the kind words.Much appreciated!You are a great guy.Sorry I like the 2.2 better than the "Tri"-:)
However that won't excuse you(I'm still "me").I stated doing piccolos at "volume,consistently,from disc to disc!C,mon!!Sorry,but maybe I need to actually take a trip to Conn,because it's a toughy,for me to swallow.Just kidding!I really do believe you.
BTW,this "Nick Doshi" guy must be special.I could swear he was a chef,at "Benehana" when I was last there.-:)
Bc3,I think the Temper-v,of old,you refer to was the Temper Supreme.A very nice design,so I thought,until the "V" made it's presence felt.Your observations are interesting BUT,all this on a dealer's set-up???
HMM?-:) |
Nsgarsh,and anyone interested...Well my pal has just ordered the Orpheus.I will be installing it for him,in about two weeks.
I will NOT be able to do an A/B comparison,with the Temper-v,as you MUST send back the "V" as part of the trade in price.However,as I have installed the "V" in his set-up,and have heard his system for hundreds of hours,with constant fine tuning,I should be able to make a decent comparison!Also,I own a "V",as well as 90% of his exact components.
A question,in advance of my set-up.I do notice loading is for 3 ohms(recommended).We have always found 47 ohms preferred.Any thoughts.
Al;so,we find 1.87 gms downforce to be "almost ideal"!This is voiced whenever we have a critical session.The Orpheus supposedly has a recommended downforce of 1.8 gms,like the "V".Any additional thoughts here,as well as other hints,could aid my set-up,and would be appreciated.I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO HIM,ONE WEEK LATER,AS THE TOLLS/GAS COST ABOUT 40 DOLLARS!!
He will be doing a rough install,just to break in cartridge,before I come over.
Thanks!
Mark
|
Nsgarsh,basically,after doing technical stuff(guage reading of downforce,and all other measured parameters),we ALWAYS use a "set" series of LP's,to make final adjustments(everywhere)by ear.
I like to have a good idea where the cartridge "sets up",and then listen for a couple of hours(actually these sessions go for an average of six to eight hours),guaging the timbres of music,etc,on these discs.
I wind up having to "fotz" around with the fluid/downforce/vta,about a zillion times before the night is through.Guaranteed to take place this Friday.I'm already in the gym,training!
This time around,thanks to the great post by Doug Deacon,we will pay closer attention to antiskate,beyond a setting,on paper,or with the usual test records.
I cannot wait,for Friday!I LOVE checking out stuff that has the potential to improve my own set-up.With my friend,here,this is a perfect scenario!Yet,I will go in open minded,and independent of preconceived notions.I don't think I am actually as obsessed as some of my posts indicate.
BTW,as a little "tease"(just for fun,and believe me,I'm really not taking all this too seriously.Just hobby fun),my friend mounted the "O",yesterday.
Based on how much "over the top" raving he does,for almost any new "chacka",he gets,he is not overly impressed here!!
Of course,this means nothing,with break-in,and his very rough set-up,but I figure we can have a bit of a fun "cliffhanger",for the moment!
Best
Mark |
This is a thread that I did not want to see come back,as I feel I was an instigator of bad judjement/feelings,but amybe I can aid,with some decent info.
The trade on the Orpheus,from a Temper is 2550.There is a guy(Nsgarsh knows how to get in touch with him,as I have no web info here)who sells grey market Orpheus for 2700 dollars.He is supposedly very reputable,but you have NO warrantee.It is your decision to go this route.
The Temper-V,which I own(a good friend has a Graham Phantom/Orpheus)can stand up to the Orpheus(it is not "lifeless",to me)but is "clearly", slightly, bettered in almost ALL meaningful parameters.A big deal,if you have a very hi res set-up.
I really believe the Titan(another pal has one)is a great design,and I have heard it TONS of times on a huge assortment of wonderful vinyl.
YET,the number of choices are SO,SO good(UNI/XV1-S/Colibri/Allaerts/Air Tight etc)that to me,it should come down to what is the best match to your arm,AND what is the best financial arrangement one can make.
Best to all! |
Nsgarsh,I promised myself I would not go overboard in posting on this thread.As I always do.I'm getting a bit self conscious about how I seem to go a bit over the top,when I get enthusiastic about stuff.
As to the "damn good" Venustas....yes it was in "this" set-up that the phono cable was originally squashed by the A/B comparison with the IC-70(not a cable coming for free with the Graham arms,as you now know).Truthfully,it has broken in big time,and we heard this a few weeks before the "O" came.
My friend is "rediculous" about long break-in(he actually has an extensive "log",where he writes down all cable/component hours.C'mon!!.I'm sure he,like you,is correct about that parameter,but I am too impatient,and simply play my music,and let break in take it's rightful time to happen.
BTW,I totally forgot to check the "O",in the loading areas.We,previously checked the "V" many times,over two years,and though 60,and 100 ohms were nice and relaxed,the frequency extremes were superior with 47!Dynamics,and stage as well.This is probably system dependant,but I do feel better,hearing Aoliviero's comments.If I had screwed up Friday's session and not gotten good sound at 47,I would have forced myself to go back this week.
I WILL definitely check this,next month,when I re-visit him.In the meantime,I'm starting my Orpheus fund!!!! |
Andrew,Doug,Paul,don't bother with anything under 1.9 gms.It would,also,be a safe bet(see Bc3 here,too)to move,quickly, to 1.95 and move up from there.Also,you must try 47 ohm loading,as well.
Best of luck!
Mark |
BTW Andrew,the Sonic Fireworks discs are Direct To Disc if I remember,as I do have one volume(I think)."Blockbusters",and used to be the "staple" of many a Hi-Fi demo,by many dealers,in the old LP days.If you like,I can look for more of these(I think there were two volumes?)at the Princeton Record Exchange,if anyone else is curious.Crystal Clear Label,or maybe Sonic Arts?
Just let me know,and I'd be happy to keep an eye out.They don't usually cost much,and do show up from time to time.I'd have no problemo laying out the few bucks in advance.
Best!
Mark |
I think,at this point,any additional comments would be kind of moot.I don't want to be a contrarian,and promised to take any findings at face value.I totally believe what Andrew heard,but for a "real" comparison,it would be best if the "O" were to be in the system for a much longer period of time(obviously,here,not practical).I'm sure it would then be set up to the "max"(like the "UNI"),given enough time.Doug DID mention this was only a general comparison.When one spends their own money on something(here,the "UNI")and voices the set-up to get it's best,sometimes over a long period(which the "UNI" is,in Doug's fine set-up,I have NO doubt)that is optimal.Playing around with a design,that is still new,and not really having a good feel for it,(being used to a differing set of performance parameters),like loading,downforce etc,as one would,if it was "their own" money on the line(I'm NOT being critical here,though it may seem that way)is no more than a "nice curiosity",at best!Especially with something SO critical as a cartridge,which is not a "drop in" component.
Andrew,you may have served yourself better,prior to going to Doug,to simply call the distributor.Letting him know what components you have,and starting from there.This way,this business of loading,and downforce,as well as possibly other parameters(mistracking below 1.94?)could have been made a bit more clear.
I am very interested in BOTH these designs,and will buy one,for sure.I'm still in the dark though!C,mon,you knew I had to start a little trouble!
Best!
Mark |
I have finally been able to fully digest your post Doug.My very last response to Audiofeil was, in essence, of a defensive nature.Sorry!
I can only imagine how good a sound system you,and Paul,have put together.Based on the well articulated description of it,by Andrew,it has to be damn good,and revealing enough to be appropriate in this "coil shootout"!
Based on your analysis,and perspective by Paul and Andrew, this new Transfiguration design comes off as almost flawed,to me.Especially at the asking price which is in line with the clearly far superior "UNI".The "UNI" must really be special!Especially once voiced in a set-up that is designed to harbor it,on a permanent basis.I have NO doubt.My own "taste",last Thanksgiving was obviously an appetizer.I am most interested if this new Transfig will get good universal press,as based on what you had to say,it should not.We'll see.
I hope my friend does not read Audiogon,as we thought we were happy,last week.
As I am at a point of considering a new cartridge,this leaves me in a conundrum of sorts.Maybe Cello was right.Do I really have to go for a new arm AND cartridge?Let's see how things shake out!
Though you have pointed to some decent performance aspects of the "O"'s design,I "read" your thoughts as underwhelming,towards it!I would not want to own a design that performed to the level you heard with the "O",regardless of the design it was put against.I can only imagine how poor the Temper-V would have fared,knowing how it is a rung below the "O".If your post was in a major publication I see little reason for any of us to want to acquire the new Tranny over the "UNI".
Be happy,as you have what most of us only strive for.
Best!
Mark |
Doug,sorry but I cannot interpret what you claim in the O's performance,as "sins of ommission"!Sounds like a bit of a "RIP",at 5500 clams,if you are accurate(95% of it,as stated)."Completely lost" the duality of Dolly and Linda.
Jumping out of the groove,which was handled with aplomb,by the Uni?
"Certain accompanying instruments being smoothed over,and a flawed bass",don't sound too desireable at 5500 clams.
Lets keep going.....Bass that on some stuff,interferes with the "rest of the spectrum".Ommission?What's to omit,but my hard earned cash?I may own a printing/graphic center,but I do NOT print my own money!
More?...."Dynamically flat presenation",on some material,where you heard much better!
Noise floor is not up to "what ZYX users are used to".In need of a Schroeder(possibly),to "tame excess energies".
If you are right about getting "MORE THAN 95% OF WHAT THAT CARTRIDGE WAS CAPABLE OF",it should be pulled from the market!Fast!
I cannot see,from your own comments why this design should get any credible "good press",in the future.Also,I need to get out more,and hear some new systems(or maybe a hearing check-up).
Thanks for saving me some money!Can't wait to see what the mainstream press,or other owners have to say!
Best!
Mark |
Audiofel,firstly no need to question how I interpreted your post.No offense was taken,either.I got the point!Nsgarsh,thanks,for the compliment.Truthfully though,Audiofel,you should re-read my interpretation of how I pereived the Orpheus,in my friend's set-up.I specifically stated to take any of my comments with a grain of salt,AND they were ONLY specific to what I heard in my friend's set-up.I think if you go back to many of my statements,of late,I am making an attempt to criticise my own componentry,for what they are,too.I have consciously done this,because I think some place ego,and "favorite designer/friend's" ahead of general "shoptalk".I am not accusing anyone here of any of this,though,no doubt some will interpret it as so.BTW,when did I ever question the reputation of the Universe design,as you allude to?The only time I get "ancie" is if I am very familiar with something,and a contrary opinion is stated(fine by me,as I don't feel the need to "have" to be right,but do want to entertain some insight).My reply is to instigate a debate!Nothing has to be definitive.We are all,going to buy what we like anyway! BUT I certainly give creedence to other opinions.That is how I learn,myself,and I will always have alot to gain from other opinions.No need for fights to break out,but confrontation,in a quality heated debate is a good thing.I hope.Too bad we can't have one without "riling up the troops"!
I stand behind my interpretation of the "O",in my friend's system(compared to the "V",in a "quite resolving set-up" too btw),but am happy to hear that there are those who feel there is a clearly better design available in the form of the "UNI",and it makes so many NICE folks happy!Isn't that what matters most?Maybe my own,and my friend's syatems are not up to Doug's.It is all fun,and one reason I like this forum.I NEVER actually mean to be condescending,or all knowing like some,but admit to being "too much",often.The hobby is SO MUCH FUN!!!....That's it!!!!!!
My only disappointment was that,since I am actually interested in both designs,having heard,and liked both,I cannot have some important questions entertained,based on the ground rules set,for fear of giving the wrong signal.Makes me want to retire,from 'gon again.
Best!
Mark
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I would like to add a final thought(by me),on this thread.A thread that I have attributed to,to it's detriment.
I have received correspondence stating my being counterproductive,as well as being productive(a 50/50 split,actually).
My initial reaction is usually to NOT turn the other cheek,when aggresively reacted to,BUT as I have gone back and re-read my posts,I simply feel that some may not care for my style,of "instigating"(a debate,hopefully).I don't believe I have actually called anyone any names,like I have seen,but the fact is that I HAVE hurt someones feelings!
I,personally,have always looked at this business of posting as "simply fun",and in reality never took it all that seriously,even though I have posted alot.Others appear to take it more seriously,and are offended,as it seems here.
Basically what I am stating,and hope the censors actually DO post,as it is pertinent to what has happened to this thread,is some folks take this stuff "seriously".For whatever reasons they care to,and I and others can't judge why!And shouldn't!!
I don't appologize for my actual statements,and care not,at this point, to re-build bridges( I never called names,or meant anything other than instigating controversary),but I AM MOST sorry that some folks have gotten offended by how I approached some posts.
People have "feelings" that cannot be easily seen,in the web-world.I am really sorry for not being more aware of that,in itself!!
Best!
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Neil,hope you know I was NOT referring to any of your well intended E-mails.I had received an E-mail from a poster who did not like my candid, albeit "baiting",attitudes,regarding the "superb"(I knew it/he actually didn't)Orpheus.My intent got the "debate I was looking for",but some folks are so "ego driven,and self centered",that they only perceive this as an attack(which it was not).Of course there is always the buddy system at play,which could instigate things,a bit,but that's life.
I took a while to perculate,but after being "threatened to be outed as a liar,with intentions of disrupting posts,on purpose",I'm not about to be bullied off these threads.Though I have lost a significant desire to post,as a consequence.
To the party(who I actually liked,prior to Prissy outburst)feel free to be the HP of the web,which you so clearly identify with.I am content to hear my music.
As to the Fremer review,the criticism,to me,comes off as a bunch of "GEEKS" at a Star Wars convention.C'mon,anyone wanting to know actual tracking force(he gave parameters,and differing turntable use too,btw,as well as overall good,reliable input,which WAS accurate "to the nines" regarding performance over the Temper series).Of course some may have wanted to know what he had his "Phazer" set on for loading,etc,but,anyone can come up with that info on his/her own.Like actually "touching" one's own set-up,and NOT relying on others(know -it -alls excluded)to be a guage of what you like.I don't know any hobbyist who admits(in his hear of hearts)that what he owns,assuming it is good,is not his real preferrence.
Fremer is being bashed unfairly,IMO,and wrote a darn good overall piece.Sorry if he did not give the actual "azimuth angle of choice",but what do I know?
Fairwell! |
Andrew,I posted this on Raul's Essential thread,but this is a more appropriate place.Could you report back at some time,as to where you finally wind up setting VTA?I am very close to getting my Orpheus,and have not visited my friend,who has one,in a while.
I have no other agenda,other than getting some good input.
Also,I want to take this time to appologize to Doug(and Paul),"for a second time,sadly."I definitley came across as disingenuous,in some of my posts,here.I,truly,did not mean to be mean spirited,but can understand why Doug got ticked off.
It is clear that many of you guys are very decent folks,and based upon Raul's comments,I am ashamed for some of my provocative remarks,made awhile ago.They were actually designed(stupidly) to get as much input about the Orpheus,as possible,and I "really" thought some of you guys kind of knew me already,and would not get so peeved.I was wrong!My real life audio pal's are worse,but we all know eachother for many years,and kind of like all the discourse and banter that follows our listening sessions.Sorry!
I absolutely do not expect any response here!!!!Also,any comments,made by me,after realizing I had ticked off a kindly poster,were made in reflexive mode,as I was a bit surprised(and a bit hurt)Sorry #2!!
This post is,in reality, a "selfish" one,as it is designed to make me feel better,as I don't hold grudges,for long,but am sensitive to other's felings.Like I have stated before...the web-world does not easily show us others' feelings,and it is so easy to be emboldened,to say dumb stuff.I do it ALOT! |
Thanks for the response,Doug.I truly,was not "fishing" for one,and you demonstrate your "uniqueness",by responding.As far as I am concerned,there will ONLY be harmonic discourse,in the future.
I just could not have let much time go by,without making some kind of gesture.Sure,you surprised me,with the E-mail(actually,I was shocked),but there was a disingenuousness,on my part,to bring it on.I'd be happy to buy you(and Paul) a nice "cheap" glass of wine,should you attend the Stereophile show,in May.
I DO "SO" like to be a bit provacotive,in some posts,but PLEASE,don't anyone ever take me SO,SO,SO seriously!!!I am simply a hobbyist/music lover,like you and many others.Never any malice,in my posts!!Never long grudges,either! :-)
Best!
BTW---Nsgarsh....You are a "mensch"! |
Want a good laugh?I have been experimenting with Pre/phono/table connections to "balanced/symetrical/regenerated A/C",vs other alternatives.I have three dedicated lines,and a new,high quality circuit breaker box.Also,I live in the suberbs,and usually have very good power.The difference with the balanced/symetrical regenerative power is ASTOUNDING!!
If you thought you had a slightly hardened sound,or slight grain/haze,or whatever,you would be shocked at where A/C technology is,now.
What got me started,was buying a PS-Audio P-500,for front end stuff(digital takes a nice bump up,too).This was an eye opener.I previously tried a load of stuff,settling on Ultimate Outlets.Sadly I went through two different P-500's which just were NOT made as well as the Exact Power stuff.The P-500 failed in three weeks,with a secod unit lasting six days.There is absolutely nothing wrong with my lines,but I did find a small resistor loose,in the second unit's bag.Hence,I started to do some serious research and wound up with the new Exact Power "Ultra Pure" unit.It is superb,but I am now seriously considering the EP-15a to go along with it and run my entire set-up in regenerated symetrical power.Think "set" sound,but full range.Best to all,and your families during this new year!
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