Many threads with opinions on boutique coupling capacitors, but very little consolidated information on the sonics of resistors. Anyone care to share their thoughts on the attributes of their favorite brands & types for specific tube and SS applications? How much of a difference does a good resistor make?
My interest in the topic increased after recently installing the latest Texas Components nude Vishay TX2575 in several SS and tube phono & LS components. This was a proverbial "Ah-ha" moment-- a stray resistor dropped into signal path here or there, surprising with an improvement that equalled or surpassed the impact of a switch to a top coupling cap like V-Cap or Mundorf.
The Vishay TXs are one of the best, if not the best for use in the Jadis
My tech ordered the Zfoils, most arrived, others are special orders, TI will allow folks to call in for any value they need, price bumps up a few $'s. This is for the Jadis DPL , upgarde should be complete early next week, will posta YT vid/comments. If I like em, will employ in the Defy7. Stay tuned for reports.
The Vishay TXs are one of the best, if not the best for use in the Jadis
Yes I have the V Zfoils on order, and should be installed in the Jadis DPL linestage (modded with M EVO Silvergold caps) next week, If I do like the Zfoils vs the Jadis 20 yr old stock metals,, I will add Zfoils to the Defy7. From everything i've read and the YT video on the Zfoils,,I have good expectations on the Zfoils as making the DPL more quiet, more open sound stage etc etc . The Mundorf EVO Silvergold caps, made nice gaisn in my Jadis DPL, Jadis Defy7 and the Cayin CD17 Mark1. all can be seen in my YT vids. Lots of tweaks/upgrades/mods in the near future,, stay tuned... New Millennium Tweeters arrived,, new interconnects with silver coated (2 types) vs pure copper RCA screw locks as per Navships, etc etc etc,,Lots of tweaks to share over the comming weeks/months.
Mozartfan, there are a number of signal resistors which the 2 watts ones can be replace with a quarter watt.
The Vishay TXs are one of the best, if not the best for use in the Jadis.
Zipost, what have you replaced the TXs with, in a well tuned system, i too struggle To find that correct balance, some distortion and warmth certainly adds so ruggedness and liveliness and the Vishays undeniably have superior full and performance, detail, clarity and extended frequency response does sound cooler which opens up the extremes which smoothness making your experience of overly refined very likely.
It may excel on classical pieces mostly with the added refinement.
It was a single custom 2575 low tolerance and super low noise, in a single configuration, which was mounted from the back of the Wilson Grand slam. The Vishay was too refine, just didn’t match with the Titanium tweeter that was on the speakers.
Audionote tantulum carbon composit: one of the best resistor imho. Very natural sounding, super warm, pleasant sounding. Very good for tube gear.
You see, this **warm* character leads me back to Takman Metal resistors,, I am not looking for **warm** which to me means edges rounded off, details lost, lacking refinement..
Jadis puts metal resistors in all their amps for a reason. For fq separation, refinement. Tubes already add warmth, smoothes any harsh edges, So adding tanatlum in the path will only add MORE warmth which would be duplicating the work of the tubes. Besides the Takman are $1 fifty cents,, The Audio Note like $15 a piece.. I need like 12 for the Jadis DPL, Jadis has metal and so to stay faithful to the so called *Jadis sound* (mythological?) = best stay with metal.
So Takman Metal *Rey* it will be. Will post a YT vid once Richard Grey finishes the upgrade.
i agree with you on the assessment. My friend bought nude foil for his Wilson Grand Slams speakers, it was just too much for his ears. It was just too revealing for the Titanium tweeter. I notice some of my equipments, the Nude Foil z series is very nice, super expensive especially the customized and low tolerance. Looking to upgrade my Atmasphere preamp with Caddock resistors. Thanks!
Anyone tried new Mundorf top dog film resistor M-Resist Ultra?
Somtime eraly next year I plan to have madisound build new xovers for my Seas Thors , using M caps and these new M Resist in the design. Will posta comment on howwell t the xovers perform. As a note,, just had my Defy7 modded , tech suggested using Carbon film resistors , taking out the old metal res(maybe takman),,,immediaetly i called him, and suggested we take out the carbon and use the Takman metal we ordered and were sitting in his shop..That old Jadis sound returned. The carbon were smooth, but lacked that sparkle in the metal res,,,the Jadis engineers employed Metal for that reason. The Metal seem to breath life into the soundstage. The Carbon are too smooth, that is lacks dynamics, Some may perfer that smoothness, and perhaps in some tube amps thats a good thing taking the edges off some of the spikey midrange. Jadis makes a smooth circuitry, so carbon are not needed.
For. Loudspeaker Xovers hands down the Path Audio resistors very musical and natural and super low distortion out of a 10 piece sample notone was more then .75 of 1% which is incredibly accurate I have been using these for several years now the best I have ever heard and I have heard everything in North America ,$25 a pop isexpensive but these are well worth it. Since parts connecxion never has ample stock,I just order from Hifi collective in the UK fedex int priority under $30 and usually delivered within 2 daysis fantastic.
Hi. I am upgrading my 2-way speaker crossover (Opera Eric Linear) and want to replace all old resistors. I have already replaced capacitors with mundorf EVO Oil on tweeter and recoupled on woofer the bipolar Alcap also with small value Mundorf EVO Oil 0,47 mF. Standard ex works crossover has cement noname china made white resistors 5 Watt. I will replace them with Mills 12Watt. My question is - should I go for the same resistance value as the old resirstors in the signal path are? The old one in signal path ist 2,2 Om (2,3 on my ohm-Meter). Should I take the 2,2 Om or may be higher resistance - next step 2,5 or more 2,7 Om? What I will get with new Mills resistors? More resolution, transparency but may be also more accent on HF after dull sounding old no name resistors?
Pathaudio the best balance but over $27 each the Mills mt12 I never have foundthem lean sounding after 75 hours with these Ar perry non. Inductive windings and special ceramic mix take time settling in .ido like the the fact silverplatedcaps, and leads Tinned Copper.sonicly mundorf Supreme mresist use nickel over copper then rivet leads, a bit harsh i had to cut off and resolder with Neotech wire much better balanced sound. for the buck Millls mr12 a much trustedresistor at $4 ,if you can’t afford the path Audio ,and don’t want to modify the legs on the big Mundorfs $16 each same goes for the ohmlite gold with the rivets very good but get rid ofthe rivets. to get the most out of them.
I just replaced Mundorf Supremes with Path Audio resistors. Much better smoother sound with out the brightness that the Mundorf had. But, I did not replace their legs with better wire as others have suggested. Only complaint about the Path Audio is that the leads are very short.
I have to say several tell me go with dpeciak brown ohmite ,carbon or micacomposit. Even the Duelund Cast adds a bit of sonic signature. WILSON USE or did use caddock very neutral but lack a bit of nsturalness and depth . The path audio Given the proper Loong 150 hour+ was told to me by the engineers as well as owned for max detail and soundstage width,depth. J documented and they were correct. The attached ground wire going to ground in crossover can make a difference ,all my capaciyors were measured and or outer foil documented With cactus symbol ,or line in Jupiter Copper foil. Other caps must be tested on a scope,or noise meter. And without question Optimizes detail and super low noise floor. The Path resistors just complete The build, natural musicality end result.
The best is a resistor bridge made with several of the .8 watt Vishay naked resistors to arrive at the required wattage... 3D with no noise. Simply shocking, the improvement that is. $60 to $100 per required value. Another reason to go with a simple first order crossover, fewer total parts and fewer resistors. Tom
For small under 1watt the Vishay naked, are the most detail refined resistors. ThePath Audio resistors in the 10 Watt range are top dog a slightly warm balance detail the best out there . Myself and others have measured them on average under 3/4 of 1% .nothing cones close Duelund 5,and 10% add in a few % 8-13% . On average $28 each. The 1% ohmite Gold, and big 20watt Mundorf Supreme are very good Butthey gav3 soldered leggs cut them off as I did and replace withNeotech awg20 6-9 solid Copper poly r Teflon jacket high percent 4-5% Silver solder much better sounding for the soldered leggs are Nickel plated ,how stupid !!
If using the larger Ohmite Gold,or Mundorf Supreme larger resistors with soldered legs ,Cut them off just above the riveted legg. reason being the legs are dipped in Nickle, a horrible addition.i take awg18 Neotec Copper Wire 2inch ,flux and solder good 4-5% Silver content. Sounds noticeably cleaner after 24 hours or so of play Path Audio resistors are the best Period just Hook them up . myself and others checked tolerances on over 8 pair less then 3/4% of 1% on average min-max ,by far the best.Teir engineer said give them 200 hours to fully open up- refine.
If liquid metal really is the cats meow then it should work better for
low level signals. From what I understand it is a tin/mercury slurry,
both of which are not great conductors, or i should say, not the best
Most importantly, it contains no mercury, it is a tri-eutectic that has no mercury.
And the updated medical research (more than a few studies done as of now) on these eutectic blends, this data says the toxicology is zero... none ever found.
My local dealer builds custom speakers. He is currently working on a pair of crossovers for me. It is taking some time to get the very specific parts he uses in his top-end crossovers, particularly the very old and HUGE caps. With my crossovers, he is having a hard time getting the specific vintage wire-wound resistors that he wants. As with all vintage parts, one often has to cull through many to find ones that perform according to specifications.
I just got some 5.1 ohm resistors to try on my tweeters in a pair of Wilson Duette. I actually preferred the lower cost Duelunds to the more expensive Duelunds but preferred the Path Audio to both of those.
I had never used the Path's before. At least in this application it was much more dynamic than the Duelunds. Still need to break-in but I am very pleased so far. I did not connect the ground lead either.
Glass is a dielectric when in solidus forum. When in liquid form, it is a conductor.
Which takes you (eventually) back 'round to this aspect of 'secretive alloys' (and their construction) for the vishay bulk foil resistors. Secretive for good reason. It's one hell of a data set to have in hand in the world of materials design. (to be applied elsewhere)
If liquid metal really is the cats meow then it should work better for low level signals. From what I understand it is a tin/mercury slurry, both of which are not great conductors, or i should say, not the best conductors.
Put a heat sink on them and I think they would make a crossover look slick as hell. :)
No idea about the sound quality. :)
IME, the thicker the film, the more ’grey/grainy’ the sound.
IME, go for thin film, when and where you can.
That balance between the best and the least expensive.
The thin films will be tougher to find, as thick film is generally the industry solution for modern designs and use (surface mount, etc). Lower rates of rejection in the build (lower % of value error) and higher thermal swings can be handled. They can pound them out like tiny perfected sausages, and sell sell sell....
Except for the fact of the addition of dynamic noise from the thick film, which matters little in most electronics builds, but counts greatly in an audio build.
So one builds a great piece of gear ’x’, and uses thin film. The unit is seen as being a bit dark.
Then one wants to say "no’, you’re just illiterate as to what coloration and obscuration the gear you normally listen to -brings to the table". Which is, of course, sometimes perceived as a deep insult.
Better gear, oddly enough... can be (and is) a hard sell in a world centered on a noise standard that sits unrealized by and in the general buying public. Too many layers to sort through in those grounds they walk on.
The trick is about getting people past the personal discomfort aspect, without raising it’s spectre - into a state of conflict.
The interesting thing about the liquid metal is that the noise is dynamic and signal shaped. In other words, a dynamic impedance.
In a thick film, the lattice is frozen, so under dynamic loading the noise is born by the signal.
In the molecualr level fluid, there is no lattice, and thus the noise is lessened by the correct level of of signal drive and dynamics.
EG, one can't use the liquid metal cables for uV and mV (single digit) level phono signals. With line level signals, it is a different matter. Add in the response to it's own field emanations, and you've got a very strange and different animal.
I did the same 2 years ago with a complete rebuild out of my mono bloc pair. The Vishays have tolerances that are much tighter than 1%.. Try building resistor bridges with the nude Vishays and install in your speakers..The result will be much like the ingestion of 3D trip weed. Not ever again but much the same experience..I remember. Your speakers will be noise and grain free as has your intergrated amp become. Tom
Sbl, I am afraid I can't help you. I abandoned my Duelund resistors (regular and CAST) several years ago. Same thing with my Path Audios. All of them left too much of a fingerprint on the music. Therefore I went back to where I started---with Mills 12w---and I have had no interest in trying anything else. Sorry.
justubes2 or salectric, do you have any more progress to report on the Path Audio resistors. I presently have Kiwames mixed with Duelunds in the tweeter section. The top end is quite lively (bright) and using all Duelunds was too bright. Mixing Kiwames tamed things down but I would like to get better resolution but without the brightness. Did you find the Paths mixed well will Duelunds? Also, do the Paths affect the rhythm. Any further input on the Paths will be appreciated.
which is a fuse not a resistor, although to a layman it might look like it. That being said I find your posts enlightened and offering good advise.
I believe that this thread was questioning why one speaker manufacturer use resistors as fuses, which I consider sub par engineering at best and further evident as some report that these change value over time - which of course they will as they heat up - cool down.
Depending on their insertion in a crossover I use different resistor types, if in a zobel network for impedance correction of a woofer or midrange generally I use 25W cement resistors and almost always several in parallel as to get the power handling up where it needs to be. For attenuation of a tweeter, which I generally try to avoid, I’d use either the Caddock MP9100 which I heatsink or several 5W MOX resistors in parallel again to get the power handling up.
I agree Mills non inductance resistors are nice too and use them on occasion too.
Fusible and flame-proof resistors are quite common in the electronics industry but usually in an amplifier, not a crossover. :) The idea of the former is just like you would expect. When power is exceeded they are guaranteed to open, instead of potentially shorting or catching on fire, and save the rest of the device from a complete meltdown.
Duelund's are really weird. One of their selling points is that they have a high sensitivity to heat and power so will change values rapidly. The very last thing I want in a power resistor! :)
For speakers I stick with Mills. VERY thermally stable, very quite, very tight specs, and really small for the wattages. Also reasonably priced, all things considered.
I do want to someday work for a speaker company that will let me build with some caddock resistors and heat sink them, but so far I haven't the time / energy / funds to experiment with them.
I’m sure everyone would agree that assessing sonic characteristics of parts in a complex audio system is extremely challenging due to component interactions, but here’s my experience.
Shinkohs and Riken Ohms are nice, but just too colored, in a nice way, to use more than just a few. Have tried the old Holcos, but despite added clarity, they were a little thin sounding in the system I had back then. The Dales are natural sounding as are the old Resistas, but neither of these are as transparent as the naked Vishays.
I think the resistor of choice is the TX2575. There may be some ultimate limits even on these. After swapping in almost 80 of these in the signal path of my 2 hybrid tube amps, 60 in the crossovers, and 70 in the phono stage, I had to put 2 Resistas back in to restore a little more midbass/lower mid-range warmth (the Dales would have worked equally well). That’s all it took. Sadly, I did lose just a touch of transparency.
There are always some tradeoffs. Everyone has there own preferences. It’s really amazing (maddening?) how much changing only a couple of parts can dramatically change the sound of a decent audio system. I’m hoping to be done with all this soon!
I personally don't know the difference between old and new, my experience is recent within the past 3 years. Also Caddock makes a very nice sounding resistor so for the prices of resistors, but several and try them for your self. I mostly buy from Parts Connexion. Happy Listening.