To Power Condition or Not to Power Condition?


OK, I’ve looked into this and the few posts I find on every forum seem to be at least 4-5 yrs old. I’m pretty sure new and probably better products have come out since then. Then there’s the issue as to whether to even use a power conditioner at all. Seems like some love it while others hate it. Whatever, the info and discussion seems quite limited.

So here’s where I am. I have a dedicated AC line with Oyaide R1 outlet. I’m running my amp into the wall and the digital into an old Monster cable AVS 2000 strip that received good reviews 12-15 yrs ago. I just installed hardwood flooring and my system sounds better than ever. But I had promised myself a toy since I did the floor installation. and was expecting the system to need help since it was voiced for carpet.
Anyway, I need a new toy. Since I don’t have a power conditioner, I keep thinking about one. My 1st thought was a couple of Oneac units from Ebay...one for analog, the other for digital. Then I considered the PS Audio Dectet. . It fits my budget and something which will fit behind my system rack. I don’t have shelf space for a P3, P5 etc though I keep thinking about the supposed benefits of regeneration. I’ve looked at other brands IE Furman. Then I stumbled across the Shunyata VENOM PS8 POWER CONDITIONER BUNDLE at Music Direct. But again, I can find very little in way of review on this item or its bigger brother the VENOM MPC-12A (which may be beyond my budget anyway)

So, I’m looking for people with experience with the Shunyata VENOM PS8 bundle with Venom Defender and PC and/ or the PS Audio Dectet and especially if you have heard them a/b’d against one another. Thoughts/experiences with regeneration and power conditioning will also be appreciated.

Thanks for your help. System is listed. The pictures have not been updated to reflect the equipment. But the list of equipment is correct
arte
artemus_5
Hello artemus_5
Do you need spike and surge protection as well? If not i would look at High Fidelity's  MC-o6 or the MC-o6 Hemisphere both very nice units. The High Fidelity has a 30 day return policy. I am familiar with PSaudio I have their P10 a nice unit also. You can e-mail PSaudio or call direct they are easy to talk to with no sale pressure.
Enjoy Pete

This much has been covered before, but power conditioning does have its ups and downs...you can go too far with it and mess things up tonally and there is usually a wattage limitation and so on. But, I wound up going the "quantum" route (as originally started by Jack Bybee) and went with a company called Alan Maher Designs. They are not yet officially launched, but I fell into their facebook group in 2010 of about 300 or so members that are like early adopters...except a lot of what we buy from AMD amount to prototypes at not much over cost. Alan gets to develop new products and real-world test his gear with feedback folks from all over the globe and we get reduced prices...even if some of those products may be dropped from his lineup in favor of better/cheaper ones before he opens to the public. We are his 'guinea pigs'. Going quantum in this case means bypassing all the associated pitfalls with conditioning. I've been steadily buying his stuff since 2010 and have yet to encounter my first sonic negative or limitation. You can contact Alan directly with a fb message and he will respond quickly. He may or may not offer you a membership into the group. If not, then I'd say that it would be worth it to you to hold off on your decision until you can get access to some of his gear when he opens, whenever that is (you can ask him that, too). But, I suggest you start small..."fuse wraps" @ $15 each, "outlet pads" @ $20 each (fb pricing) (at your AV system duplex)...both of those things are dynamite and if they don't get you started for what can be done for that amount of money, nothing ever will...everything improves. 

Cheers, John
Pete, I suppose surge protection is at least preferable since we get thunder/lightning storms here in the summer. I haven't heard of the products you mention but I will check them out. Thanks

John, I'd actually forgotten about Alan Mahers products. I communicated with him several yrs ago. Then life got busy. Then I took a hifi vacation for a while. So the new floor has rekindled my desires again. I see that his website is up and I know he's been around for quite a while. Thanks for the reminder
The problem that I see regarding the Shunyata VENOM bundle is that it includes a high-current PC. Power cords are specific to components, IOW, this PC may be great for your amp, but not for a preamp. Plus, it comes with the Defender, which you may or may not need. It just doesn't seem like a great deal.

IMO, it’s better to choose a PC gauge and brand based on the component; preamps and CDP’s are low-current draw devices and would not need a high-current PC. Also, power cords have a sonic signature, so auditioning the cable in your system is advised.

You may already know this, but amps often have unpredictable sonic results when plugged into a conditioner. Typically the amp sounds best when plugged directly into the wall, then there is no current-limiting happening or artifacts from the Pwr Conditioner. Then use a good low-noise power cord.
Components benefit from power conditioning due to the lowering of the noise floor, plus they don’t draw much current.

You’ve been looking at passive power conditioners, and maybe that’s all you need unless you have unstable, dirty power coming into your home. Then you would need to recondition that AC.
I highly recommend the Blue Circle PLC Thingee FX-2 which is in your price range (but doesn’t have surge protection). I use it combined with a Furman power strip.

http://www.goodsound.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/575-blue-circle-audio=-plc-thingee-fx-2-six-out...

http://www.tlp-audio.com/powerConditioners.php
I have no first hand experience with the PS Audio Dectet, but I like that it provides isolated filtering for both analogue and digital.
I have had power conditioning in some form or another from the Chang Lightspeed, PS Audio AC regenerators, even tried one of Bybee's AC conditioners. I just didn't seem to hear that much of a difference to be confident I wasn't trying to fool myself into thinking I did. 

I did have my latest system lashed up with Shunyata cabling and power conditioning, in particular the Hydra Alpha 4, using different Shunyata AC cables for each of the components. 

While I found better signal cables for my system and sold the Shunyata cables, I left the Shunyata AC gear alone. It was only when talking with my delear that he told me about Core Power Technologies Equi-Core balanced AC transformer. This was appealing from the standpoint of freeing up shelf space in my rack. When I installed the Equi-Core there was an improvement - not so much of hearing crystal clear highs, or " a veil being lifted from the music", but rather a relaxation factor that allowed me to more connect on an emotional level with the music. It was just flat out more involving and drew me in.

I sold the Shunyata gear, pocketing the change and no longer have to look at the power conditioning equipment trying to reaffirm faith and belief that it is doing something. While everyone's AC power quality is corrupted to a greater or lesser degree, I may just be one of the lucky ones where it is not that noticeable. But, with the Equi-Core it may just be the power conditioning gear was placing a limitation that I had not considered.

Having affiliation with neither dealer nor manufacturer, this is just a perspective from one person's experience and point of view. There are so many variables in this hobby that my medicine may be another's poison. All I can say is, once you connect with your system in a profound way you know it.

Tried a lot my self (Oyaide, PS Audio/snakeoil, noise reduction device, etc), the only things that worked without side-effects are the stuff from Furman.

Oh, and go with American 240V, balanced power for free. More dynamics, more clarify, better everything.
I have not had a variety of conditioners in my system, but after discovering a consistent inconsistency in the voltage servicing my home I opted for the PurePower.  Due to a few 'gon posts railing the company for defective and poorly warranted equipment, it is hard to recommend them. But, this unit has performed beautifully offering a lowered noise floor, lessening harshness, and an overall more involving presentation. I have, on occasion gone back to plugging amp and preamp into the wall, but never for more than few hours. 
Thanks for all the replies so far. One poster has pointed out that the Dectet has  separate outlets so one can separate the digital from the analog which is something I want. I've also heard good things about the BC Thingy. i haven't had time to research the various  instruments. I will check them out though

FWIW, I was a builder and built my house in 1997. My circuit panel has light load on each circuit which may be a plus for me. Checking the voltage, I get a reading of 124.9 VAC I have checked it for the last couple of days and it has been consistent.. This is across the various outlets in my room and the adjoining DR & kitchen.

Not sure if the system shows my use of the Pangea AC9 used on all components. They were the only ones which ever made any difference in my system. BTW, the 9 bested the 14 by a rather large margin on my cdp which is why I use the 9 instead of the 14. I haven't tried the newest Pangea....yet.
try it . 
Once you have everything else dialed in on your system try one . Some state negative results some find improvements . My improvements were substantial . I wish i had never read posts here back when i was unsure . Missed a couple years of having better sound because i listened to the no improvement camp .
What components are in your system?

If you're using the Pangea AC9, a move to the 9SE MKII Signature will be a dramatic improvement, most noticeably in a blacker background. Very good cable for an amp.
The 14SE MKII Signature PC's are excellent for low-current components and so inexpensive.
I was an early Pangea user and praised them highly on AA. I tried the AC 14 1st and then the AC 9. Then they came out with the 2nd 14 ga. Neither of the 14's sounded as good on my CDP (Theta Miles) as the AC 9 I'll surely try the new generation. I was surprised that the Pangeas worked so well. I had tried some high $$$ PC's with no improvement. The Pangeas were noticeable instantly. I also remember the great many detractors who had spent big $$$ on PC's and just would not accept that a $50 PC could make any improvement.


(BTW system is listed)
In my experience, power conditioners change the sound, but I never heard an improvement..mostly a degradation.  You have a line conditioner now, you say.  Try removing it and relistening to your system without it.  Oyeida is good...I've been using their products and have always found them good.  Power cords can provide the most improvement...condtioners...don't work well for my system.
Power conditioners often, being filters, limit maximum current reducing dynamics.  Most of power supplies consisting of transformer, rectifier and capacitors draw current in short peaks of high amplitude.  Any filters' impedance will affect it.   On the other hand my Furman Elite 20 PFi  power conditioner applies, in addition to filtering, power factor correction which is basically huge inductor in series followed by big capacitor in parallel (providing required peak current).  My power amp plugged into conditioner kept the same dynamics, but something else had happened. My TV (Samsung) plugged into same conditioner displayed cleaner, more vivid colors.  The only explanation I can come up with is that clean power reduces jitter, therefore reduces the noise  (Jitter is the noise).
Power conditioners often, being filters, limit maximum current reducing dynamics.  Most of power supplies consisting of transformer, rectifier and capacitors draw current in short peaks of high amplitude.  Any filters' impedance will affect it.  
True. That's why you have to be careful when choosing a pwr. conditioner and find one that is non-current limiting. That's also why they usually affect the sonics of an amp.

The Blue Circle Thingee FX2 is "non-current limiting," and it lowered the noise floor in a big way for my components. However, when I plugged my high-current SS amp into it, there was a loss of detail and dynamics.
I think there are very few conditioners that can handle the current-draw of an amp.

There are some power cords that are so good at lowering the noise floor, that a conditioner probably isn't needed. But you have to pay for that quality, such as Synergistic Research and Audience.

All I can say is from personal experience is that I will power condition all day long.

 I particularly enjoy my Synergistic Research Powercell .. and has done some nice things to my system ..   

my best sound is with amp and pre plugged into wall, sources into a BPT power conditioner

I love this hobby.  But, I think much of the journey boils down to the Two Principles of changing anything in your audio system:

First, everything will change the sound, whether or not you perceive it.

Second, everything will change your perception of the sound, whether or not the sound changed.

Enjoy!

Hi,
Over the past 35 years I have tested over 60 different conditioning systems in my reference system and I currently run a HiDiamond passive conditioner. I am the NA distributor for HiDiamond but the main reason I run the unit is because it had no negative effect on my system. I also really like the Core Power Technologies Equi-Core balanced power cords.

Cheers,

Well this is a pertinent subject since I just pulled a strand of 12-2 romex across the entire length of my home tonight. This will allow for my dedicated 20 amp circuit that will power a Furman P-2400 it. This unit provides balanced power along with protection from voltage spikes etc. I plan to utilize a cruzeFirst Maestro outlet. I'm curious why you ruled out Furman artemus?
artemus-

quickly, disconnect and do not use the Monster product!
Second, where do you reside?
Maestro is a good choice....I've noticed a big improvement...without coloration in its use.
PS Audio Dectet worth every penny, you'll be happy....improved sound, gear protected etc without some crazy cost
Worldwide, can the Core products, maybe the 300, handle Mcintosh 60 watt tube amps? No current limiting?
I have 2 Audience AR6TSSDOX units one for front end (CD,turntable,preamp) and one for amp Pass 350.8.In my place its much better quieter better bass etc.it depends on your unit and power needs.
Both my Audience AR6TSSDOX are 20 amp 2400 watts.

My Running Springs Haley made a substantial improvement in my system. Less grunge, blacker backgrounds, more air and hear deeper into the music.
I saw the Venom package from Shunyata and was intrigued too. I am using their Defender in a simple Wiremold power strip and find that it seriously quiets my analog front end that consists of an old Thorens TT, Grado Platinum cartridge and Grado phono amp with a hulking wall wort power supply.  

Also Plugged into this strip is TV cable box (SMPS), Samsung BDP that doubles as CD transport (surprisingly good for raw PCM out) and Arcam irDAC which had stock SMPS but now has MCRU linear supply.  

Once fully broken in, the Venom Defender definitely tamed this hodge podge of analog, motors, unshielded cartridges, digital components and SMPS', reducing noise and improving PRAT of analog front end while lowering noise floor and relaxing digital presentation without limiting punch and speed (of digital audio and video components). The Defender in the Wiremold made a positive gain for all these components on the same strip.

For my Arcam AVR400, not so much. The receiver lost some zing and punch when adding the Defender in the first outlet of the Wiremold. Maybe it was current limitation of the Defender in the Wiremold strip which only has 14AWG fixed cable. Plugging the Arcam directly via Shunyata Diamondback cable into medical grade wall outlet fed by 10AWG/20amp dedicated line provided much better performance. Currently determining best outlet for B&W sub, wall vs strip.

Reason for my interest in the Venom strip and supply cord to replace Wiremold is that it might address potential current limitation of Wiremold, continuing big gauge wire from wall to strip. Outlets are likely higher quality in Venom strip as well, providing more secure connection, more current, less noise, etc.  At least in theory.

A word about potential mismatch of Venom supply cable sold as part of the Venom package to components downstream as mentioned in previous post above.  I look at the Venom supply cable as extension of the Romex cable in the wall out into the area around your electronics. The hope is you provide as much current as possible to the power strip without polluting electrical fields around your other gear, and vice versa. You can customize your specific source cables from that point as needed, fwiw.

kn
If you don't want to spend a small fortune on a conditioner, I agree with lowrider57 and suggest you plug the amp directly into the wall and get a Blue Circle Thingee for everything else. It works very well for me.

The reviewer, Paul Candy, felt it was a close second to his $4500 power conditioner. You can buy a lot of music for the difference.

All the best,
Nonoise
I've tried many power conditioners in my system, and although they changed the sound, there never was an improvement.  I use Ayre equipment...in the circuit they have addressed power conditioning with something they call Ayre Conditioning....don't know if that has anything to do with the results I got, but no conditioner worked to the system's advantage.  You might try it with caution toward a return policy, but for me, it wasn't advantageous.
artemus_5, did you buy the Shunyata Venom package, or did you go a different way? Curious how the Venom strip and cable worked for you or others.
Has anyone had experience with or care to comment good or bad about a  Panamax MR4300? Thanks.
or for that matter any feedback on an Emotiva CMX-2 would be appreciated. 
https://emotiva.com/products/accessories/cmx-2

Post removed 
With the exception of my Levinson amp which plugs directly into the outlet, I like the Naim Wiremold strip as well. Keep all the components on the same ground. Non current limiting. www.avoptions.com

They carry updated Cryogenic treated products. Power strips, Power cables and outlets. All still endorsed by Naim Audio.

N
nutty, the standard 8 place Wiremold has worked well for years for me, but I wonder about the current limiting part. Yes, no limiting from geometry and lack of conditioning or switches in the line.  But the Wiremold's fixed supply cable is 14AWG, and when I have 7 different pieces hooked up, with no less than five powered up and drawing some current at all times, I wonder about current limiting during intense passages.  Hooking my receiver directly to the wall outlet and 10AWG dedicated supply line from the breaker seems to increase dynamics over running it through the Wiremold, even with the Venom Defender disengaged.  Why I am interested in Shunyata set up with heavy duty strip and twenty amp rated supply "HC" cable.  Even if I keep the receiver connected to the wall, peripherals might benefit from fatter pipe. Will investigate Wiremold's current offerings.

knownothing,

I see what your getting at. But with the short length of the powercord and following the proper order to hook up the equipment, I dont notice any drawdown. Im going to send an email to av options. See what I can find out.

N




I tried to send 2 two messages to avoptions and it kick them back. 
I will place call tomorrow. However, as for the "Non Current Limiting ", that claim was made by Naim. 

N
Got the Panamax MR4300. Wasn’t looking to spend big $$$ on anything "high-end". The unit purportedly does NOT limit current. This according to their customer service reps, the fact that the unit does have a bank of "high current" outlets (in addition to outlets that are not labeled high-current) and my own listening. So far so good as it appears to work as designed.
I spoke to Chris West of AV Options yesterday. He's a very nice person and seems to very knowledgeable on this topic. 

Their new Super Wiremold Power strip offers deep-Cryo treatment and upgraded Wattgate plugs. They come mounted on solid maple plinth for stability and isolation. Nine industrial grade outlet sockets directly connected sequentially to three continuous bus bar wires. The bus bars are kept short for substantial conductivity and low loss. No performance robbing switch, fuses, lights, or filters.

The order of which the components are plugged into the strip is critical. Plug your highest power component closest to where the power strips cord enters, (outlet #1), and work your way back to the source component to get the best sound.

Chris stated that Naim equipment is designed specifically to perform at its peak utilizing 15amp/1120hz. Therefore the Super Wiremold Outlet is rated to perform at 15 amp. Chris said that under normal circumstances and used properly there would be no drawdown. The 3 heavy bus bar wires and short 14 awg are designed specifically for the current demands of 15 amperes. 

He specifically said that if your are using a dedicated 20amp line, that you should use two strips. 

N
Thanks for following up nutty.