To cryo or not to cryo


Hi All,

I searched the threads and couldn't find any dedicated to explaining and/or evaluating the benefits of having electronic gear cryogenically treated. I'm considering buying a BPT Pure Power Center, and the company strongly recommends I have the whole thing treated.

Is it worth it? What kind of benefits? Audible difference?

Thanks,
the rustler
Ag insider logo xs@2xrustler

Showing 9 responses by rrcpa

The cyro rage has made its way through many sports. Audio is actually late to the party. I was exposed to it in precision target shooting. All kinds of claims were made and guys were cryoing their barrels and even their bullets in the quest for the "Absolute Score". Sound familiar?

Then real life metalurgists started writing some quite deep and technical SCIENTIFIC articles in the Precision Shooting press which basically came down to this. Cryo does nothing. It does not "align" anything. Grain structure and other qualities of metals are modified with heat - not cold. Period.

Gradually, everyone in competitive shooting got enough empirical data (scores) from matches to see for themselves that there was no statistical difference in their guns performance. There are no more Cryo ads in shooting magazines.

If cryo did anything for the sound top end manufacturers would "treat" their gear before they sold it. They will do anything for better sound. That is what high end audio is all about.

If you really want to learn the FACTS then I would urge you to search the back issues of Precision Shooting magazine.
there were several articles by actual graduate metalurgists and I promise, they will convince you.
You're half right Bob.
Metalurgists (and a lot of audiophiles) can hear just fine.
They just don't listen :-)
Yea, that happens sometimes. You should have put the oven on BAKE not MELT.
No worries, just put it in the freezer overnight and it'll firm up again although you might notice a little coldness in the midrange.
Well Hdm, how does cryoing the recepticle help? Do you also cryo the house wiring? How about the breaker box or for that matter the toaster in the kitchen? Remember, everything in the house shares a common ground.
By the way, we weren't "shooting off our mouth". We were having a friendly discourse about metalurgical facts. Facts are something I notice your post is devoid of.
No Hdm, I wouldn't expect you to listen to my opinion (although I didn't offer one)your mind is clearly made up but the salient question is: given the total lack of evidentiary support; why should anyone listen to your opinion?

I reinterate; if anyone has any scientific articles then see if you can post them for all of our edification.
Hdm,
You are exectly right. Without scientific facts this forum degenerates into "He said / I heard" nonsense. That is my point exactly.
For instance, you give us the example of freezing your CDs. I have no doubt that you honestly think this helps. Maybe its great - I don't know. But tellling us this in a vaccum does no good at all. What I am trying to spur is a dicussion about WHY it makes the CD sound better. Because if it REALLY does sound better then there should be some physical, measurable change. We need articles or explanations from actual scientists as to what (if anything) is happening at the molecular level that make a laser read a CD better after you make it really, really cold.
Of all the hobbies I have been envolved in none is as riddled with pseudo-scientific gimmickry as Audio. I think the reason is that audio quality tends to be subjective by nature. After all, if you say that this tweek or that tweek "sounds better" to you then who am I to say it doesn't and no audiophile wants to admit that he "just can't hear it". The problem is that just because you say it sounds better doesn't mean it really does (in a physical sense). In short I am trying to back up subjective judgement with scientific evidence.
(I use the term "you" a lot but its just for illustration. I'm not picking on you personally)

Ross
That's the ticket. Now we at least have a starting place that's not based on perception.
Hdm,

Most of this article addresses the behavior of STEEL. It may apply to my silver cables but then again, it may not. Remember that many metals work harden and thus increasing their martinsite percentage makes them harder but more brittle.
Is making a metal tougher and harder a good thing in audio applications? Or do we want it to be ductile and soft? Yes, cyro increases the surface hardness and wearability but so what. I'm not making a welder. Are these good attributes for audio. Just because it transfers electricity more efficiently says nothing about what it does to that signal or even if enhanced electron transfer "sounds" better. What if cryoed copper wire transfers energy twice as efficiently but results in an order of magnitude more skin effect?
You are making judgements that do not follow from reading the scientific literature. This is the point I've been trying to make.

Let me give you an example. Klipch horn speakers are very efficient. My Spendor BC-1s are not. Efficiency is not the goal. Sounding like music is. Have someone stand across the room and talk to you. While he is talking have him raise his hands around his mouth like a megaphone. The result is instantly noticeable. This is why Klipsh horns sound so nasal. They do not sound like music. Spendor's do.

So cryo can deliver more power. Is this a good thing? If you've been around audio very long you will remember when more power definately meant worse sound. It's not so bad today but remember, that's why guys are enamoured with the little 8 watt amps. They sure don't have any power delivery but they sure sound sweet.

We all know that just because something measures better (say power transfer) doesn't mean it sounds better. That's why all those Julian Hirsch articles we read for so many years were absolutely worthless. He didn't like music - he liked oscilloscopes.

Maybe you are right - I'm not saying you're not. All I'm saying is that better sound does not logically follow from this article or any other that I've read on cryogenic processing. Conversely, we cannot say cryo does not work from this article either.

Hdm, I repeat; this is not to beat up on you. We need these types of articles and we need the free exchange of ideas on this forum but we must not jump to unsupported conclusions.

Ross
Rja,

You are, of course, correct but I think the idea was to use other's knowledge and experience to avoid the time and expense of making your own mistakes, so to speak.