to bi-wire or not?


Looking for advice on whether to bi-wire my Joseph Audio RM22si speakers.  Am currently running Acoustic Zen Satori mono cables which I love.  My local dealer tells me moving to bi-wire cables (either Satori shotgun or Hologram II) will make a huge improvement.   I have always been under the general impression that unlike bi-amping, bi-wiring is not all that beneficial - but I may be way off base.

Thoughts?  
vinylbliss

Showing 6 responses by nonoise

@carlsbad , too late! 
I've changed things since the last post and now I'm using some jumpers made by the same company that makes my speaker cables: Darwin Cables. 
Best set up to date.

All the best,
Nonoise

The first thing I did when I got my speakers was to remove the brass jumper plates to try out some good cable jumpers and noticed the improvement. 

As for not hearing an improvement, I've read that not all bi wirable speakers have the crossovers properly designed to do that which can result in not hearing a difference.

What I'd like to hear is a side by side demo of the JBL L100 and the limited L100 Classic 75 which is bi wirable. Only 750 pair will be made.

All the best,
Nonoise
Thanks to both of you for the valuable input. When researching, I found the Rocket 44 to use PSC and PSC+ in their design and Audioquest has a paper on bi wiring stating the best way is to use separate cables. The next best is to use cables that can be modified for bi wiring, like their Rocket series, and to avoid designs that use a single casing (even their own, more expensive lines).

As I've already stated, I'm using 10GA on the base and 16GA on the mid/tweeter and I'm getting the most divorced sound from my speakers that I've experienced. Last night, I wanted to hear how the theme song to Breaking Bad would fare and ended up listening to the entire soundtrack. It was a kaleidoscope of coherence, if that's a thing. All over the place with effects yet focused, full and engaging, and seamless throughout.

I've already spoken to Musicdirect since they've been my go-to for my gear and those offers on the Rocket series cables are very tempting.

All the best,
Nonoise
@hifiman5 , Funny you should mention trying out cables of identical design as I'm teetering on the edge of doing just that. After talking to my high end dealer friend, he reminded me that every cable out there is going to sound different, system to system, so I'm heading for some good old trial and error.

I'm in the solid core silver camp but I'm leaning towards the Audioquest Rocket 44 bi wires as a starting point. They use 4 solid, long grain copper runs per side (double barrel) and are ideal for bi wiring whereas their other types that use a single casing aren't, even it they're higher up in their line up. 

I just went through another lengthy listening session and am still somewhat floored by the amount of musical info that was being masked by the use of single run SCs and jumpers. The bass is now back to it's former, formidable self and the transition from the bass on up is so coherent now. Thanks for the input and encouragement.

All the best,
Nonoise



I've revisited the topic of bi wiring now that my system has changed since I last posted my observations. What I've found is this:
Before I settled on my present system, using the bottom two posts gave the best results (with jumper cables). It is also the way JBL recommends the way to do it when using a single set of SCs.
Using the top two seemed to confuse the sound and rob it of it's naturalness.
Using the bottom terminal for the Plus cable and the top, opposing side for the Neg cable audibly improved the sound, making me wonder if going full bi wire (or using another pair of SC) would result in bigger gains.

If lazy, I would have stopped right there as the sound was more alive,  believable, and fuller sounding. Scrounging through my older cable sets I came up with some Tempo Electric 16GA solid silver SCs with bare wire ends and used those for the top terminals and my Cabledyne Ulitmates  (10GA) with locking banana plugs for the bottom two bass terminals.

What I got was the most believable sounding presentation yet. It's more relaxed and natural sounding compared to before. There was so much MIA in regards to background playing, singing, etc. that this new set up revealed. The only downside, if it is that, is a lessening of the bass in regards as to how forceful it can sound. It's there and it's detailed, complex and full of timbre and grit but it doesn't overpower like it used to. It could be that it's now properly presented compared to before. In fact, the bass I'm getting is eleciting sympathetic vibrations higher up the scale than before and at lower SPLs.That seems to indicate it's a lot more accurate.

It seems that some speakers are truly bi wirable and not done for the sake of gimmicks. I called the dealer where I got them from and they assured me that they are truly meant to be bi wired to sound their best.

Now I'm at that point where do I settle with the awkward look of the competing wires or go for a set of SCs that are purpose made and look the part. A high end dealer I conferred with just laughed and said he'd just keep it the way it is and not be in a hurry and just enjoy the music.

One more thing I noticed is that after hours of playing, my integrated runs cooler to the touch, barely getting warmer and I thought, if anything, it'd run a bit warmer because of the extra load that another set of SCs would bring to the equation.

All the best,
Nonoise







I was told by people here, that when using jumpers, try using, on one side (pos or neg) the upper one and the other, the lower one. They say it sometimes results in improvement over using both on the lower or higher posts.

I tried it that way, and going with both to the upper posts but it turned out that it sounded best the way the JBL instructs to: using the bass or lower posts. You just have to experiment.

Eventually, I found the best way was to thread the wire through the lower post's eyelet up to the upper one, using just the speaker wire itself. If it's too thick, just make an "S' shape with the wire going around the lower post to the upper post and tighten down the posts.

It's the most coherent sound I ended with.

All the best,
Nonoise