A small room needs small speakers. I'd either stick with the KEFS (Have some wood cabinets built) or something like Harbeth P3ESR XDs. Get one of the new mini "wonder subs" to supplement the bass.
Tiny Room (6' x 9') speaker advice
Dear fellow Audiogon members
I have been an avid Audiogon reader over the past 10 years and have learned a lot from the community and have come to trust the advice I read on here over most other platforms.
Did a lot of listening during lockdown and I decided that I really like vintage audio. I recently purchased a vintage HH Scott, Type 200 tube amp with separate Tuner, which are currently being reconditioned.
In addition, I have a Thorens TD-145, which has an upgraded 8" Jelco arm and Ortofon 2M blue cart (plan to upgrade tot he bronze in the very near future).
For speakers I have the KEF LS50s that are currently connected to a Music Hall 15.3 50W amp (which is being replaced with the HH Scott).
I want to replace the KEFs with speakers that at least look vintage, i.e. does not need to be vintage just want a wooden box like the Klipsch Heresy IV, Harbeth 30.1, etc. that have a large deep sound stage/excellent imaging.
I have heard and really like the Klipsch Heresy IV and the Harbeth 30.1. The issue as per the title, is that my listening room is tiny. I actually had my system in several different locations in my home but being non-dedicated spaces it did not get nearly the use that it has in this small room.
I have searched the web, including all previous audigon posts, for the "best speakers" for small rooms and the definition of a small room is very subjective (i.e., I have read several posts where it was defined as 15' x 15' or smaller). The best I could come up with is speakers for near field listening, most of which are low sensitivity and not ideal for a 12W tube amp (that said the KEFs can easily reach levels that are well beyond comfortable using the Scott before I sent it to be reconditioned).
Right now my KEFs are approximately 4 ft apart, about a foot off the wall, and my head when sitting is about 6 feet away. They are current on isoacoustic stands on solid walnut shelfs that are bolted to the wall at ear level.
Now comes the question.
What speakers should I try to audition that fit the following criteria?
1. Wood vintage look.
2. Small enough for the room. Again I would go for the Heresy IV, which would fit, but I am sure are way to big for the space.
3. Open airy soundstage. I have a sound in my noodle that I keep searching for, which I can only describe as a Fender Strat played on a 65 Princeton Reverb. Again the Klipsch and Harbeth mentioned above came as close to what I imagine I am looking for as possible.
4. Finally, I would like to keep the price under $3K.
Thanks for your suggestions
Budd
66 responses Add your response
that is easy wharfedale lintons
thay look vintage but sound modern they will sound great in that room
Dave and Troy Auidio intellect nj wharfedale dealerhttps://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/wharfedale-linton-85th-anniversary-loudspeaker |
Great 2 channel for any room. True Ribbon Headphones & Amplifiers | RAAL-requisite (raalrequisite.com)
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I just rebuilt pair of Infinity Infinitesimals. The guy paid 400.00 for a nice looking pair. He bought new ribbon for the tweeters. I installed the ribbons, checked the DVC Watsons, surrounds and turned them 180 degrees. I replaced the tweeter caps and inductors and cleaned up all the LPad switched. I added a great pair of red copper 5 way binding post and rewired with OCC/silver. They are 12" tall. 95% efficient at least. What a great speaker and the rework paid big time.. I think the binding post and wiring were the biggest thing.. He uses First Watt gear. I tested them with a MX110z and a MC225. 28 wpc They filled my whole work shop 30 x 40 and I used a single BB sub. The sub is in a 8cf box. It uses a 12" firing up, a 15" firing down and an 18" HE passive radiator facing forward. 250 watts. :-) The drivers are 92 - 94%. 100db was pretty easy The sub is behind me 5 feet away the speakers are in front 10 feet away. About 800.00 total for the little Titans. He had used stands that were to short. He had some pavers he like. He glued three together and painted the pavers with the same color as the stands. Looked great. 30.00 for the construction goop and primer and spray paint.
Great and they ARE from 1978 - 1980 or so.. Way ahead of their time and make quite a statement, Then and NOW.. I got a couple pairs stashed somewhere.. :-) Regards |
+1 for the Wharfedale Lintons at $1,800 with stands. They have a real vintage vibe and sound great. If you’re a fan of Vandersteen speakers. You could go with the VLR Wood at $1,800 or you could reach a little higher and go for the VLR Carbon Tweeter at $3200. I haven't heard either of these speakers but there are a few forum members whose opinions I respect that hold these speakers in high regard. |
Vintage look-wise and space wise, I think the Wharfedale Dentons would be more appropriate over Lintons. Does it have to be close to $3k? |
This Spendor 4/5 would fit the bill and is well within your budget. I have owned many Spendor and Harbeth speakers and I doubt you would go wrong with this one!! https://generubinaudio.com/shop/ols/products/spendor-classic-45 |
I have heard great things about the Infinity Infinitesimal and BBC L3S/5A, but unfortunately being true vintage they are tough to find for audition. The Spendor, Harbeth P3ESR, Fritz and Wharfedale are all the exact look that I was going for. The only set that I am at all familiar with (i.e., have heard) is the Wharfedale Linton, which I liked a lot. The Fritz and Spendor look exactly what I am looking for with respect to price, build quality and suitability for the space and low power tube amp. Thanks everyone, really appreciate the advice! |
6’x9’ room? If you are looking considering Wharfedales, the Dentons are the ones you should put ears on. The Lintons would probably be way too big for that room. The Dentons would also come in under budget. My brother found a lightly used pair of Denton 80th anniversary with matching stands for about $400. However,with your budget, I would be looking at Harbeth P3SER, or any of the other LS3/5 derivatives. I run a pair of Graham Chartwell LS3/5’s in a small room(9x13) with great results. Another brand to consider would be Falcon. The make highly rated LS3/5a speakers. |
6 X 9 rooms ... sounds like the 8 X 10 room I had in an apartment in Astoria years back. I used a Marantz 2216B receiver with Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s and a bare bones TEAC CD player and it was pretty damn nice. If you want that vintage look, I would go with the Wharfedale Dentons. I use the Dentons in a bedroom system today with an Outlaw receiver. I might also look at the Omega Super 3i @ $700/pair. You can have the cabinets done up anyway that you would like. They would work nicely with your Scott set-up. Rich
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Awesome, I will check out the Omega Super 3i as well, thanks Rich! I agree with the comments above that the Linton is probably a little too big, will give the Denton a listen. As several have suggested, headphones are a great alternative, I typically use Sennheiser 660s and HIFIman HE-400i with a Cayin player. While I like them both, I find headphones difficult to use for extended periods of time, which is why I am on the hunt for something small that will sound good in a small space. That said the new Scott has a headphone out so may be worth a shot. |
The Infinitesimal was a great little speaker, but the tweeter wasn’t a ribbon. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK you got me, I replaced the planar diaphragm. Trust me one looked like ribbon tinsel from a Christmas tree. I like the cast aluminum case and hardwood caps. It was a super fun project. I wonder what Danny at GR could do with them.. I’m gonna send him a set. I have two pairs. One pair with a mismatched tweeter, wrong color but the right static resistance. They look like they are ready for a fallout shelter, pretty friggin’ sturdy. :-) GR Research has a real nice sounding unit just not retro. I like something that sounds exceptional too. Not just good. GR is one of a kind for sure. https://gr-research.com/product/desktop-mini/ Pick your finish. I picked the best of everything.. 607.00. AND finished. OP I got a few upgrades for a TD145 too. I usually keep 4-6 160s or 165s here for projects.. Ear plugs.. There is a tip.. 2.00 put them in the suspension springs.. Regards |
How do you audition equipment for a room of your size at a dealer's place? Wouldn't the sound be completely different? Do you have a different way to audition? |
In addition to the LS3/5a types consider the Totem Acoustic Sky bookshelf/stand mounts. Lower bass response than the Harbert/Spendor/Falcon units, can be placed within a foot of a rear wall, excellent imaging and detail and nice mahogany finish. For half the price (a bit over $1,000) the Totem Skylight is another alternative. If your Scott drove you Kefs it will drive the Totems. |
Wow. My office is 6' 4" by 9'3" so I get your situation completely. For a vintage look, the LS3/5A is your winner. It is designed as a nearfield monitor, where none of the other speakers mentioned had that as a consideration. The Infinity's are too 'modern', the Wharfedale's are too big, and the Heresy's are WAYYY TOO BIG. If you're really a Klipsch fan, consider the RP-400 or RP-500. Also, Acoustical treatment in a small room is crucial. Get about 6 or 8 24" square or 12" X 24" rectangular 2" panels for you walls and ceiling, They will make remarkable difference by controlling the early reflections. Acoustimac made mine, and I am thrilled. I use them in my lots-of-glass living room, where they help more than the sound system, I use them in my theatre, along with bass traps. And I will use them in my office shortly. Good service, good price, good selection. I'll stay out of the amp discussion for now other than to say you won't need much, but it must be cleqn. The LS3/5A's are sealed, so having a subsonic filter isn't a big deal, but the Klipsch are, so being in close proximity to you turntable, a 20Hz high-pass subsonic filter will be a must. Woofer flap is not good for the speaker or the SQ. And as much fun as a tube amp would be, that's a small room and it could get very stuffy very fast from tube heat. |
Different speakers will make the biggest difference in any system.
@mghoward50 Those are great speakers. |
For a room of this size, my biggest concern is going to be the distance between the speakers and the wall behind them. Any rear-ported speaker is going to be problematic. Of all the speakers mentioned above, Harbeth P3esr will be my top recommendation. It is a sealed design and can be placed as close as 6 inches from the wall. In fact, when I had them in my home office I found that the bass response actually improved as I got closer to the wall. It really shines in near field listening, which let's face is what you're really talking about here. Although I sold mine last year, it is one speaker I won't mind buying again. It might not impress at first, but it definitely grows on you over time. Having said that, if you can keep the speakers at least 18 inches out from the wall, the Fritz Carrera BE's are phenomenal speakers for the price. These are without a doubt my favorite bookshelf speakers under $5k. I'm auditioning a Rogers 65-v2 SET amp, and the combo is outstanding. This speaker really shines with tube amplification and can thrive with even low powered amps. I also owned KEF LS50 (non meta version) and in my opinion they're not a great match for tubes. They really need some SS kick in the gut to wake them up. Same for Harbeth 30.1 -- awesome speakers if you pair them with beefy solid state amps, but quite ordinary when driven by tube amplification. The smaller Proacs are also nice but I feel they might be too 'in your face' in a smaller room. I always found them to be a bit too 'lively' for my taste, but you never know. A lot of people love Proacs, so maybe it's a preference thing. |
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Here are some LS3/5A options! The Spendor A1 is another nice shoe box size speaker that I would include! Compared! Harbeth. Falcon Acoustics. Sound Artist. LS3/5a - YouTube |
A 5 litre box LS 3/5A-type speaker is the obvious choice. To widen the field, I suggest a listen to the Sonus Faber Lumina II. That said, if one is talking about literally reproducing the sound of a Strat through a Blackface Princeton, then your existing LS50s will do than better than the BBC type designs. A pair of Yamaha NS10s will do it too but they will be horrible for home based listening. |
Or you could keep the vintage vibe and stay old-school with a pair of Dynaco A25s. They are from the same era as the Scotts and are legendary. I run a set every now and then, and always hate to un-hook them. Should fit the room very well. They are beautiful and plentiful; and can be refurbed if needed. You will save a TON of money, worth a shot in my opinion. I bought a perfect pair for $250. |
my office, I wanted true bookshelf size, fit on 11" deep shelf IN a bookcase, thus no rear port. essentially that gets you to a 6-1/2" woofer. I tried Wharfedale Diamond 225’s, amazon, no question return, kept them. next, an inexpensive returnable self-powered sub, kept it too. https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/home-subwoofers/?in_stock=1&Bundle=No just enough to keep the speakers from sounding small. I hesitate to use the word cheap, but I figured, at this price, get the room up and running, perhaps upgrade the bookshelf or woofer (or both) later. I doubt I ever will, wharfedales sound terrific, the sub blends well with the wharfedales and it’s out of sight so the fake wood doesn’t bother me as it otherwise would. |
