Tight bass sub recommendations


What are the recommendations for a high quality subwoofer set- up. I have Maggie’s 1.7I speakers which I love but I think could use a little sub energy. Most of what I have tested seems a little boomy. I know there are 2 schools of thought 1 sub or 2 subs. I’m just looking for a deep Tight bass. Thoughts???
schmitty1
Any sub that does not have variable slopes, 0°->180° continuous phase adjustment and phase invert should not be considered. Unless one is  very lucky, getting good integration sans these may be difficult.

Many claim to have a great setup, but if what I hear at dealers in any indication of what people have in their homes, I'll have to reserve judgement. Most dealer setups are universally awful.

After 15 years, I replaced my [customized] ACI Force with a pair of Martin Logan Dynamo 800x. The best location for single sub in our media room is in midway between the mains and halfway to the listening position. Two subs definitely broadens and focuses the sound stage.

The ARC software does a good job of controlling room defects. I'd recommend getting the Perfect Bass Kit as it does a better job than using a smartphone microphone, calibrated or not.

The smartphone control app is a dream. After decades of knob-dicking, zeroing to the best setting is a doddle. Raise the XO 5Hz, shift phase -3°, drop level by 1db, shelf the bottom octave -1db. It's so easy, it's silly.

Only negative, and it applies to most modern small subs, is they are too light. My 15 year old Force outweighs the 800x by 50% for the same driver size, amp power and performance range. On a large 2nd story wood floor, strolling may be a problem, especially with the rubber feet. Easily resolved with 10kg barbell weight with an added side benefit of MUCH TIGHER bass and far fewer room resonances. Strolling is less of an issue when using the spikes. [What's 8 more dimples in the bamboo?]
+1 for Rythmik.  My FG12 marries very nicely with my MMGs.  Highly adjustable, plenty of power.  Highly recommended.
millercarbon,

Not all of us require homogenous bass through out the listening room. Some want it dead nuts accurate in one small area.

My head occupies 0.0825% of my listening room. Anyone who wants to listen sits in the 'hot seat.' It's not a social event.

Maybe one in a hundred who visit have the ability to offer a valid critique. The rest make comments like "Wow!" regardless of where they are seated or standing.

If I play just the subs rolled off @35Hz on programme with very little real bass, I can still localize the subs and off centre bass blindfolded. Is that possible with 'homogenized bass' from a swarm?

Some liked the Bose 901 spread. Others thought it appalling.

ieales wrote: "Some liked the Bose 901 spread. Others thought it appalling."

I assume you are implying that a distributed multisub system is analogous to a Bose 901.

It is not.

The reason is, the way the ear/brain system perceives room reflections at low frequencies is different from the way it perceives reflections at mid and high frequencies.

At mid and high frequencies, early reflections primarily widen (or "spread") the image and degrade clarity, and often cause coloration; while late reflections done right enhance ambience and timbre with essentially no detrimental side effects.

At low frequencies, the ear/brain system cannot distinguish between the first arrival sound and the reverberant energy. I can explain this in more detail if you would like. But the implication is that the reveberant field is virtually all that matters in the bass region.

"Not all of us require homogenous bass through out the listening room. Some want it dead nuts accurate in one small area."

I think you’re using the word "homogenous" to imply that smooth bass throughout the room is somehow undesirable.

If your bass is "dead nuts accurate" in one listening area, then it is "homogenous" in that area, presumably from a combination of steps you’ve taken, probably including EQ. A distributed multisub system can expand that area, which is desirable to some people but obviously not to you.

The two different approaches are optimized for two different priority sets, but ime "accurate" and "throughout the room" need not be mutually exclusive.  Assuming budgets are not unlimited, it makes sense to optimize for your priorities.  That being said, I have customers who have gone from single-equalized-ubersub to a Swarm (EQ use optional) and preferred the latter even in the sweet spot. 

"If I play just the subs rolled off @35Hz on programme with very little real bass, I can still localize the subs and off centre bass blindfolded. Is that possible with ’homogenized bass’ from a swarm?"

Some upper-frequency energy will come through the subs because the electrical filter rolling off the top end of the sub is not a brick wall. This upper-bass/possibly lower mid energy is what gives away its location. In the absence of much louder energy in that region coming from the main speakers, of course the sub’s location can be heard. But most of us listen with the main speakers on, and the loudness discrepancy is great enough to mask the subs’ locations.

Duke


I normally have my subs' XO @ 105Hz. There is plenty of localizable information at full level at that setting. Adding an additional source would likely play havoc with the mid-bass imaging.

All I'm pointing out is that a swarm may not be the optimum solution for all sub permutations.

Everything HiFi is a compromise.

"Everything HiFi is a compromise."

Amen brother!!

And I agree with you that 105 Hz is usually too high for something like a Swarm.  I try to avoid letting the subs run up any higher than 80 Hz for exactly the reason you describe.

There is a technique that works in situations where the subs have to kick in fairly high.  I had a customer whose 107 dB horn speakers shelved down significantly around 150 Hz, before rolling off at about 80 Hz. (His midbass horn was imo too small to hold up well down to the manufacturer's claimed 80 Hz low end.)

What we did was, use two amplifiers.  We placed two of the Swarm units along the front wall near the main speakers, and those two units went up to about 130 Hz (which blended well with the downward-shelving of the mains at about 150 Hz).  The other two Swarm units went on the side and back walls, and were rolled off above 60 Hz or so (blending well with the ballpark 80 Hz rolloff).  The lowpass filters were all 4th order.  It did take a little while to dial in all of the settings even with measurement equipment, but when we were done it worked well enough that he took out his checkbook.  He was in a position to easily spend up to twenty times the price of the Swarm, so that was a nice outcome.

Duke

Sixty grand to spend and bought the Swarm. That's some testament. A nice outcome indeed.