Hi Ozy - am curious if/why you sold your Sunrays... ?
Would the Luxman 800 monoblock be adequate to drive the Sunrays ? Between that and Vitus monoblocks, any reccomendations anyone ?
Also a question to anyone who has experienced / or has an opinion on both the Sunrays and the Contriva Diacera SE s : Are the sunrays much more difficult (versus the CDSE) to place in a room because of the side firing woofers or is that myth ? Would one need much more expensive gear (especially power amps) to get near-optimal sound from a Sunray versus a CDSE ? Would a 10-20k USD pair of used transistor monoblock power amps on a CDSE sound better than the the same pair on a sunray because the sunray is unoptimized ? Would Guns and Roses or Led zeppelin sound better/worse/much better on a sunray (assuming 10-20k usd used transistor monoblock amps) versus a CDSE ? Would anyone contemplate a Sunray in their living room (listening area larger than normal bedrooms but entire size of living room 3 times the size of the listening area and mostly behind the listening area) or is it just much easier to place a CDSE versus the pick up in sound quality on the Sunray versus the CDSE ? Am sure classical music and voices will sound better on a Sunray but was concerned about punchy base dynamics and wondered if the visceral feeling of the piano cera and contriva diacera was as prevalent/less or more so i the Sunray... apologies - many questions. In short, am i going to get a meaningful quality of sound improvement for the wide range of music i hear (from classical to acoustic to rock and hard rock) i like to hear from the Sunray placed in a reasonably casual setting ? |
Seems to be a secret, cannot understand why though! |
Ozy, I said "exactly like yours....." does that remind you something?
BTW, what's your next speaker after Sunray, I am so curious. |
Quanmer---
i don't own the sunrays and lpx anymore, so it would be out of place for me to comment on them presently. |
Ozy, I listened a pair of Sunray in Taiwan, with lpx active crossover, exactly like yours.
The owner took it to other audiophile's house for A/B test against Cello Grand Master.
Guess what? Most of people like Cello much more than Sunray, especially the extension in treble.
I have to say : I am very disappointed to Taiwan audiophiles' taste! They should attend live concert more often. |
just added the tidal lpx active crossover... it is set @50hz and i'm getting an even better(as expected), faster and punchier bass now.
the unit is built like a tank, and its fit and finish are in the same vein as the rest of the tidal product line-- exquisite! |
Hifishows is for real not a easy game for the companies that is demonstrating. I guess most of the people in here are experienced hifishow-visitors as myself. Before the show you know that there will be too loud, to much boomy bass, many rooms with bright and gray sound and a lot of the same music in many rooms.
I would never take an option away only on the basis of listening experince on a hifishow. The TAD for instance I´ve heard perfom better but still not my cup of tea. The Kharma..., no, I don´t know what to say, a disapointment and clearly a ceramic sound.
To the point then, what made me post my meaning were that even under those circumstances the Tidal were awsome! One of the best sound I´ve heard and way better than Marten coltrane, Kharma 2 and 3, Wilson W/P7 and 8, Maxx 2, all listened to in controlled and good rooms. Wilson Alexandria is the real stuff but never made me cry. That the Tidal did and it´s a quality mark as good as anything.
Someone else may have the emotion on other sepakers but I´m afraid I´m hooked :-)
|
in all fairness too ALL of the aforementioned speakers, we all know that show conditions are far less than optimal. of course ,all exhibitors try their very best to tame the room acoustics ,deal with noisy floors, crowds, and electricity. the results ,at best, are allowing one, only to get a glimpse of what the system in mind can and should do. it's like test driving a high -perfromance car- you ought to drive it in different settings to appreciate its attributes. same here- if one liked the tidal sound at the mhe show , but was n't"blown away", he /she ought to try and listen to it in a different settings , before passing absolute judgment.
i can only attest that in my room ,with my front end and amps the sunrays are magically stunning! |
Wiredup we seem to agree on everything. Yes, although TAD wanted to invite you "into" the music sometimes it reminded me of old JBL's. It didnt have that "elegance" if I could say so we are so used in "high-end" audio. I suppose it ultimately lacked some transpareny and micro-detail. |
I attended all days at Munich. Tidal sunray were by far the most impressiv system there. ususally I´m not so impressed by ceramic drivers. They tend to sound alike with the small highlight on upper midrange/lower tweeter. A small tendens of harshness mixed with this pregnant mean tone that colours voices in particular. You could here it in the Kharma room (I had to leave after 3 minutes due to this well known fenomen) and the other rooms using the ceramics. With one exception, the Tidal sunray. There on the other hand were no ceramic sound at all.
I agree with someone else in this thread that Sunray presented a live performance as realistic as i´ve ever heard. And I´ve heard quite a lot thru the years.
TAD sounded impressiv but too much. A litle bit like old school Infinity mixed with JBL proffessional systems (OK, I´m overdoing this but you got the meaning). Sounded as the "Hifi"-syndrome instead of a live performance.
Over all there were a lot of good Hifi going on at the MOC show but the Tidal system were alone on the very top. I was really surprised but 10 visits on different places in the room with all that kind of music going on showed the fact. This was one of that rare moments with absolute top performance. We both vept and hade goosebumps all over. I wonder what this system could do in a room without MOC:s boomy floor and in a quiet surrounding...
And no ceramic sound what so ever! Astonishing... |
Sorry guys but the Magico systems I heard in the High End Show were very mediocre comparing to Tidal on Sunday. Magico just sounded fake (especially the ones driven by the Soulution amplifiers, the other model driven by Spectral was slighlty better)... |
Fizzletop that's funny, I went on two different days to the Kharma room, sat in the best sit and couldn't stay more than 5 minutes! It just sounded, fake...Too much middle low frequencies, huge images and no resolution at all!
In the Tidal room you could sometimes swear you were attending a live performance!
Kind regards,
Mike |
Fizzeltop, Thanks for the update. I am leaning towards buying a pair of the Q5's. |
The Magico Q5's were one of the better sounding speakers at the show (Purist, TAD and Raidho were at the same/higher level). The Magicos were very dynamic and coherent. The Tidal Sunrays were quite different and not as good (remember that for some reason they were quite different on the two days I heard them). The Tidals had good micro details and transparency. Something was odd with dynamics and harmonics though and I suspect the Tidal amps had something to do with this. Vinyl was very good and the Da Vinci turntable and Tidal preamp shone. All in all, the Tidal room was not up to expectations/hopes but I can't help but think the speaker is capable of more than what I heard. FYI, I preferred the Kharma room. |
I am never listening to Tidals again, since the Sunday experience I cannot enjoy music at home anymore....lol |
Fizzletop, Thanks. How would you compare the Q5's to the Tidals? |
Husk01, yes I visited the actual Magico room twice with the Q5 (Magico speakers were in several other rooms as well). I actually thought that the Q5's were very good and my take is that Alon has taken his experience and customer/dealer feedback to date and come up with a speaker that is more practical to drive and better sounding than past efforts. Personally, this is more a speaker I respect than love though. |
Fizzletop, Did you get to here the Magico Q5's |
Hello to all,
I have the privilege of announcing that Robin Loggie of Loggie Audio will be exhibiting the $28,800 Tidal Piano Cera at the 2010 California Audio Show, along with Ypsilon electronics.
www.caaudioshow.com
Thank you.
Constantine Soo |
I was at the show on Friday and Saturday and visited the Tidal room on both days. On the Friday the sound was ok, on Saturday it was poor. One of the key products I travelled to Munich to listen were the Tidal speakers...I really wanted to like them but ultimatley didn't. They were flat sounding with little weight to the sound. The room was immaculately presented, the people were professional, the guy spinning vinyl was fantastic. I happened to fly out and sat next to someone who knows Tidal speakers and they told me they were capable of much more....maybe it was the electronics? FWIW, my two favourite speakers at the show were the Purist electrostatics (Euro 58k...ouch) and the Raidho C3s in the Nordost room.....two brands I had never heard of before the show. Biggest disappointment, Vandersteen 7s....Richard was in the room so I figure they were setup ok but they sounded midfi to me. |
Kops,
I don't know why the performance of this system was not what it should be on Friday morning. Either the amplifiers needed some warm up After the aircondition operation through the night or the Argento cables needed some serious break in. I tend to think of the second case because I had similar experience in my system when I first installed them. |
I heard it on Friday and a little on Saturday morning....If Argyro and geopolitis state that something changed maybe is the case.
But what is the reason of metamorphosis in 1 day? |
Yes it was indeed impossible to distinguish the system from live music! I know this statement sounds like I am exaggerating but it Is so true! |
I agree with Argyro that the sound was not good on Friday. Having heard the Sunray before I found the Tidal system lacking resolution and it was sounding too boring in the first day of the Munich show. But when I listened to the same system two days later I was shocked. It was easily the best sound I have heard in my life and almost impossible to distinguish from live music. Many congratulations to Tidal for creating a system that has practically no competition. |
sounds like great fun was had by all in munich....
hi karelfd--- i think that one of the sunray's claim to fame is their ability to "disappear" in the room, and create that wall of sound behind them. glad to hear that you noticed that as well..
kops-- what was it that you didn't care for in the tidal suite? just curious. |
Did anyone at the Munich show get a chance to here the new Rowland Corus pre? |
Friday was indeed not very good but on Sunday EASILY out of this world sound! Don't know what Jorn has done but I think he has found the holy Grail in speaker manufacturing!
I'm still in Munich and I can't get over the amazing sound I heard yesterday! Mind you I stayed in the room for 1 hour!!!!
Wish I'll be able to own these speakers one day!!!!!! |
Tidal in Munich was a total disaster, dull sounding no life no sparkle no live music. |
speakers: Tidal Sunray
w/ active crossover: Tidal LPX
pre-amp: Tidal Presencio
amps: 4 Tidal Impact monos
for a (sadly only visual) impression, see the last picture on my system thread. |
Which Tidal speakers were in the demo, and what amps were being used? |
Husk01 I'm afraid "some other speakers" in the last sentence of my comment must include Q5. Agree with Metralla, the TAD presentation was top tier. Personally, I also liked Kharma, Gryphon (where I had the advantage of being alone) and AudioNec very much but one of my absolute favourites was the new Brodmann JB 205 with Viola amps and a comparatively "humble" Electrocompaniet EMC1 as source: this was really emotional stuff and the speakers also managed to do the disappearing act. Unbeatable raw fun was the Martion Orgon with an iMac as source, Aqvox DAC and the dwarfish new Martion preamp (many people will have missed this, as they were showing on the BMW premisses next door).
And then there was Sunray. |
I was also at the Munich High End today and was very impressed by the Tidal demo; not so much the Magico Q5 demo. There were two other demos I heard using the Magico speakers (different models) that I found more attractive than the Q5 demo.
There are so many variables in play that no real conclusions can be drawn - you just have to go with your impressions. Lots of other demos to listen to mean that you can't spend too much time at one particular room if it is not grabbing you from the start. So it was with the Q5s playing a long classical piece.
On the other hand, the Tidal demo was first class.
My favourite demo was Andrew Jones showing the TAD player with Constellation Audio preamp, TAD amps and TAD Reference One speakers. Part of the reason I ranked this demo at the top was Andrew's presentation - moving between SACD, Redbook, Redbook from hard drive, and hi-rez PCM from hard drive, he kept it interesting and the sound was simply stunning.
There were many other enjoyable demos I heard - but the Magico Q5 was not among them.
Regards, |
Karelfd, Did you also here the new Magico Q5's? |
Hi Ozy, I just returned from the Munich High End. I can now understand the disappearing act you're talking about. Tidal played (on purpose) at a much lower volume than the rest of the exhibitors to let people experience the extreme finesse of detail, monitor-like coherence and incredibly fine-layered micro-dynamics that these speakers are capable of. Even then, and with all the bright lights on, you could actually fix your eyes on the speakers and not tell these sculptures were actually the source of the sound that just magically emanated from the stage unfolding in front of you. What a difference compared to some other (much renown!) speakers that at almost distorting volume and under the veil of movie theatre darkness still had the sound glued to them and a big hole in between them. |
geopolitics--
yes indeed. i'm driving the sunray in a bi-amp mode now, with a stereo gryphon and 2 monoblocks, which leads to the next step --- adding the tidal lpx soon.... |
Ozy,
are you considering adding the external active crossover in the future? |
tidal sunrays.. 6 monthes later.. or- where did they disappear to?
after very enjoyable 6 monthes of sunray ownership, i begun to realize that these beautifull monolithes simply have "disappeard" in my room. with 500+ hours on them, everything is now sparkling and the sound presentation is simply stunning.
minor adjustments ,such as further toe-ins, and back and forth seating adjustment yield soundstage that is beyond the room boundreis. and that incredible ,taut bass is now reaching well into the 20-30 hz section, effortlessly.
i have found ,in my expreince ,that these speakers work very well with proper, ample wattage.
additionally, since these speakers throw this huge soundstage , taming the room acoustics enables the sunrays to integrate into the room even further, and "disappear". |
I'll be there as well! :) |
... talking of power, Jörn confirmed that they actually will bring the Sunray to Munich this year and drive them with 4 Impact mono blocks (with Tidal LPX active cross-over).
You bet I already have my train tickets and hotel reservation! |
hi mike---
i bet that system at"abouthifi" was a killer!
as for the soverign amps-- have not had the pleasure of listening to them, but given their reputation and the head designer/owner's , i'm sure that they are superb!
as you and i and other "tidalists" discussed here and other tidal forums, tidal speakers require ample amount of quality power to drive them to their best performance.
flimsy, murky,questionable amp designs (meyau...) need not apply.... |
Ozy I am considering using a Sovereign Glory amp and maybe a Wavac PR-T1 as a preamp. I really cant wait, sometimes I have a hard time sleeping...lol
On Saturday I listened to the Contriva for two hours with my own CDs (in the system presented in abouthifi.com) and I got goosebumps in every single track I was listening. The timbre is so so natural and real!
Happy Listening,
Mike |
hi argyro----
will do! i think you will be very impressed and pleased with your upcoming purchase. from what i heard of the contrivas at the c.e.s show, they are a revelation!
just be very patient with their break ins, as their sound will change/ improve further considerably over time.
also ,another important element is the power and its quality feeding the spaekers. |
Ozy please keep us updated, all this information could be usefull to many audiophiles! I will be soon be buying the Contriva and I wanna get as much info as possible for everything regarding their sound and behaviour.
Happy Listening,
Mike |
....tidal sunray.... 4 months later....
here are some of the very noticable improvments that i noticed over the last 3-4 monthes of very enjoyable ownership--
the bottom end has tightened up considerably. the bass quality and impact are better, more defined and refined.
the mids have also opened up more and are a lot more "see thru". the highs ,provided by this incerdible diamond tweeter, have also opened up even more. cymbals now linger in the room for almost ever,and drum's hihats sound crisp and fast.
anyone considering these phenomenal speakers must be patient as their break in time is lengthy ,but very rewarding! |
having lived with my new TIDAL SUNRAY speakers for few days now, all i can say is that they are absolutely stunnig to listen to and look at. the realsim and sheer music that they convey is simply beautifull, and must be heard.
rumor has it that a pair of sunrays will be displayed at the next ces....anyone who is looking for a final stop on the speaker-hampster- wheel- train should stop by the tidal room and have a listen. btw, i'm off that train..... |
Good post Maxx !
Their electronics are also end-of-the-road too (Tidal Preos, Impact Monoblocs) very serious gear from this German company with little, or no competition.
I'd take an entire Tidal system and call it a life.
I would also like to hear a shoot-out (nearly impossible of course) between top Avalons, Magicos and Rockports.
One problem, I needs more $$$$ !! |
I have listened both the Contriva and the Sunray quite a few times since I am a future buyer of the new Tidal Piano Cera (not officially released yet). These speakers are the end of the road in my opinion and especially Sunray is unlikely to face any serious competition by any other speaker in the world. I believe Contriva would probably beat any other speaker (at any price) but Sunray is not a speaker it is live music (especially when combined with the Argento Flow cables) |
I have heard the new Contriva with the ceramic drivers in several occasions and setups, quite easily one of the best sounds I have ever heard. Very neutral but quite musical as well!
Hope this helps,
Mike |
Maxx1973...read the forum at the below website. There are lots of Tidal owners/fans. Enjoy.
http://www.audioexotics.hk/ |
