This is for Georgehifi especially but others can chime in.

We have tested the Devialet vs the T+A electronics and the T+A just killed the Devialet, we also tested the T+A vs Thrax, MBL, Krell, Boulder and a few other major electronics lines. 

Musifx tested the T+A vs the Pass to drive a set of WIlson'sand again chose the T+A.

T+A makes two series of products that will both easily drive a set of Dynaudio C1. 

They have the HV series which offers 2 intergrated amplifiers the PA 3000 at $18k and the upgraded PA 3100 at $21k.These are both massively powerful 300 watt into 8ohm, 500 watt 4 ohm integrated amplifiers. 

They also have the $11k PA 2500R which is a 140 watt integrated, however, the unit keeps on going down to a staggering 580 watts into a 2ohm load. 

To give you some persepective: T+A is the largest high end manufacturer in Germany with a full time staff of 110 people, with 14 full time engineers.
Burmester is 10 people, along with a few of the others.

T+A makes everything themselves, and use proprietary technology in this case HV. HV stands for High Voltage, T+A discovered that when you run solid state devices at high voltages the sound becomes much smoother and more natural, like a tube. 

The PA 3000 HV integrated was compared to $120k worth of CH Precision separates in the Absolute Sound and Alan Taffel found he was having difficutly hearing any major difference

.http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ta-pa-3000-hv-and-mp-3000-hv/

In Positive Feedback, a PA 3100HV was compared to a $45k D'agastino and was again found to be as good. 

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/ta-elektroakustik-3100-hv-pdp-3000-hv-sacdcd-...

The sound of the T+A is natural, smooth, with a huge soundstage, deep propulsive bass, with fantastic balance of information retrival with liquidity, plus punch. 

Build quality is fantastic, and the gear is built to last  a lifetime.

If you are on the East Coast, you should come in and take a listen.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Sorry to convey what you guys may say as hyperbole, but if a pair of $18k amps fails to convey any emotion, and sounds clean but life lifeless, and the soundstage isn't that amazing, and even though that amp is famous for bass and the bass isn't coming through on a pair of $68k speakers or another set for $35k or another set for $32k and another combo just sounds magical what would you call it?

Now in terms of price the Devialet was the bargain compared to the T+A stack or a T+A integrated plus dac and cables, but we are reporting the results one  setup magic on the other no magic so the cost factor doesn't come into play the greatest bargain $10k hand made suit that doesn't fit you isn't a bargain even if you got it for $300 bucks!

We tested multiple sets of expensive reference electronics on the Polymers, Blades, and Paradigm Personas, and the least good was the Devialet, The Trax stuff was fantastic but the T+A was better, and a few of our other reference setups with tubes didn't sound as good either.

As per Ref 600 they are nice amps we compared them to the Nuforce Ref 9 which had a much more magical midrange, we have tested Hypex and Ncore and Pascal based amps so far none of them are as magical as a good class A or Class A/B amplifier.

As per kills in audio, Scotch or cars yes it does. A bottle of ripple sucks, a bottle of Manchevitz is slightly better, but none of these are considered fine wine. A bottle of Clan Mcgreor Scotch a $15 a bottle, It is barely drinkable and it is not a Mcallans 12, and the Mcallans 18 s better still. So in our humble opinion there are plenty of things that subjectively kill an other thing.

Does a Ferrari kill a Mustang?  In terms of performance yes and no, but most people if they could afford a Ferrari would much prefer to drive one over a Mustang.

Kost you are wrong sir, linearity is improved in a transistor when run on a higher voltage rail T+A was the first company to discover this simple fact, that transistors transfer function becomes better when the rail voltage is increased as they produce less distortion and function more accurately.

The T+A HV and R Series have been universally lauded as well as compared to much more expensive electronics.

We are not saying Pass is bad, on the contrary Pass gear is very, very, good, but we have yet to hear a Pass labs setup that was as three dimensional or as clean and  fast yet retaining a slightly liquid overall presentation.

When an $18 integrated amp can be compared to $120k worth of extraordinary Swiss electronics and a $21k integrated can be compared to a $45k Dagastino integrated amp which is considered one of the best integrated amplifiers on the market and the reviewer said the T+A amp was in the same class it would make me take notice.

We did, brought in the gear, tested it , compared it and found it to mirror what the critics came away with.

Yes the T+A gear is really that good. Is it the best on the market? We wouldn't say that but it is in the upper echelon with some of the best uber gear and when compared to the best of the best it is usually less expensive to boot.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Jmcrogan,

You are missing my point, and we are world’s away from Bo’s crazy Tru Fi claims or are saying we are the only ones out there that can make good sound.

If you read any of our posts we are pointing out to products that are pretty highly rated already.

Taste is taste, there must be system synergy and of course even highly rated products may not be one person’s cup of tea.

In the case of a Timex which I have owned, and a Tag Heuer, or a Mauric Lacroix both watches I own, there is no such thing as a watch which performs better ie kills another watch. In fact a cheap Timex quartz will take more accurate time readings than any $50k Rolex or Patek.

You purchase a watch as it is a beautiful bauble.

In the case of an audio amplifier or dac or whatever there can be good, better, and best, levels of performance. Over the years we have heard a lot of really expensive gear some of the uber gear is really amazing and is really performing at an even higher level of overall performance

System synergy still has to apply, we have a Light Harmonic Davinci which is a $35k Dac and yes it "killed" the lesser dacs, which we had in the shop at $15k and $25k, by killed once you heard the Davinci it was impossible to listen to the other dacs once you heard how much better the Davinci was in those areas that we value.

Performance and worth or value are too different things.

On direct comparison the T+A was way better than everything we tested.

We did find out that a $90k Boulder Mono block was better than a $32k stereo T+A amp with an outboard power supply, but that wasn’t a fair fight as T+A offers a mono block version which may be dramatically better we never heard it so we don’t know. The Boulder was better in certain areas, the T+A actually had better bass which seemed impossible considering the size and weight of the Boulders.

Hope that helps clarify. Why don’t you read the actual reviews and see for yourself. We would say that both reviews really do paint a true picture of this gear it is really special, again we are not saying it is better than some of the other uber brands, but if you look at Dagastino, Vitus, Boulder, and other similar models the T+A gear costs less and if magnificently finished with a fantastic feature set.

Go find some and see for yourself or don’t that is your call.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Khost are you a transistor designer?

Have you done any such experiments?

T plus A has why dont you talk to their engineers?

Could it be that if you use a higher voltage tranistor which is neccesitated by these designs that transistor run on that voltage rail runs with greater linearity than a lower voltage variation?

There are more variables then what you think.

I am sure you also believe that power cords dont work either?

You just cant run more voltage through the same device, it is called a high voltage circuit for a reason.

Khost you are missing the point. The only ones who actually know the merits of their specific special sauce, is the engineers who designed the product in the first place.

In Audio as with anything else that relies on talented people designing products, each company has a specific idea on what makes their products unique and better than their competition.

Take for example Spectral who uses ultra wide bandwidth circuitry, vs Gamut who tends to like amplifiers using a single output device, vs the approach that Dartzeel uses or Solution, or Ayre or Bolder, these are all excellent and different sounding products.

The point is we don’t really care wether of not the designer uses Mosfets, Bipolars, BJT, single output devices, multiple output devices it is immaterial, stop being a gear head and do what most reviewers and dealers do, we listen and compare actual products.

How do we know the T+A gear is special? We test and compare it to whatever products we can test it against.

On our Blade setup we compared the Parasound Halo JC 1, Electrocompaniet AW 400, Chord SPM 1400, Devialet D 400 monos,and then the T+A gear.

On the Polymer Audio Research speakers, tested Thrax, Devialet, Conrad Johnson, and T+A.

On a pair of Genesis we tested T+A vs $120k pair of Krell MRA

We tested T+A vs $90k set of Boulder mono-blocks on a set of Kharmas

and there are more examples of real world testing.

The long story short, is the T+A gear madethe Polymers, the Blades, and Paradigm Personas, sound way better than the other products tested in the same room, with the same speakers, and components.

Again, if you look at the Positive Feedback review of the T+A PA 3100 a $21k integrated vs the Dagastino Momentum integrated a $45k product the reviewer loved the T+A and said it sounds as good as the D’agastino model. Who cares which technology is being used, it is the sound that matters.

Why do we recommend this brand so highly because the gear is really special sounding, and is among the best in the world and if you look at these two reviews TAS and Positive Feedback the gear is being compared to radically more expensive stuff and found to perform at that level of a lot less money, TAS $18k T+A integrated vs $120k CH Precision stack, Positive Feedback $21k T+A vs $45k Momentum.

Why don’t you read the reviews or better yet test this gear for yourself.

At the end it is the sound quality that matters not the specific technology.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Keithr it isn't that the Pass didn't sound good, Musicfx compared a Pass Labs integrated at $12k to a T+A Integrated an 2500R from the less expensive R series integrated amp, for $11k for use with a pair of Wilson Sashas and bought the T+A. because to his ears the T+A sounded better.

We have heard Pass numerous times, it is very musical solid state, it just doesn't have the speed and dimensional quality you get from the T+A gear, it is also way more colored. 

The Octave stuff is excellent if you want tubes

The very fact that Dynaudio was importing the T+A gear and was recommending the two brands says quite a lot.

The two companies parted ways because T+A felt that Dynaudio was more concerened with marketing of their speakers then actively getting T+A off the ground in the US.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ. 

Khost   you are like many incredulous audiophiles out there.

Guess what in anything that is subjective, the only way you know one thing is better than another is by testing via listening.

If you think a $500 Denon  amplifier and a $100k Technical Brain amplifier measure differently I think you will be wildly disappointed.

Please tell me the measurements which categorize a $1,000.00 bottle of Cognac vs a $20.00 one?

Please explain the way a superior car makes you feel?

Here is the basic problem you may know engineering you have a lot to learn about audio.  

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Dsreamer, it is not that Pass Labs isn't great gear it is but perhaps there are even better products out there at the same price:

Musicfx tested a T+A 2500R integrated vs the Pass integrated at the same price and found the T+A  was better to his ears.

Check out his thread he was looking at new electronics to drive his Wilson Sashas and was comparing a T+A integrated which he found out by reading our posts, to a Pass Labs and a Prima Luna.

I have heard the Pass stuff and it is very good, what makes the T+A to our ears even better is the superior rhythmic quality and greater transparency of the T+A gear while still retaining a somewhat warm quality in the midrange which the Pass also does. 

So to recap, will  a pair of Pass Labs mono blocks sound good of course they will, the issue isn't what just sounds good, is that are x, y or z the best product for the money as well as for the sound quality, can I get better sound for the same money? 

The T+A gear walks the fine line between detail and resolution and musicality, it is very fast, clean and dynamic while just being engaging to listen to this is a very hard balancing act and one of the reasons we endorse the brand. 

Again we are not saying T+A is the best gear out there, it is among the very best gear you can buy and when compared to the most expensive gear the T+A usually comes close at 1/2 to 1/3rd the price which is why we recommend it.

Compared to Hegel, Luxman, Naim, Electrocompaniet,and Norma, Anthem, and a few others we have sold or continue to sell, the T+A is clearly better and in a higher class of gear then these other fine brands.

How do we know look at our video and see for yourself we have tested and continue to test many brands on the market.

One of our sound rooms has 54 components in it.

https://youtu.be/1NPIn3pEmI4

You can see some of the products we have sold and we have replaced some of these brands as we found even better products.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

George hifi, that is nonsense

Yes you can easily hear the difference's in sound when you switch one component for another wether you are switching amps, or dacs, or cables the differences in the sound is easily discernable.

We would prefer to have only one pair of speakers in the room, vs the other speakers that are in storage, but if you want to be able to offer a good choice of speakers then they have to go somewhere. 

Yes having other speakers in the room does negatively affect the sound somewhat, but when a client auditions a set in our show room they will understand these interactions and know that the speakers will sound even better in their own rooms.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Grgr4blu and usual, your true  nature comes through.

There are not always great reviews which actually compare one less expensive piece to something which is two to three times the price and the reviewer has the honesty to say that the less expensive product is as good or sometimes better than the much more expensive one. 

In the case of the Positive Feedback review, reviewer compared the $21k T+A integrated to the $45k  D'agstino Momentum, and came away with the conclusion that the T+A was as good for half the money. 

Plese read the review for yourself.  Oh I see you own the D'agastino gear, and thereby are threatened by the truth, that the D'agastino gear is way over inflated for the sound quality compared to T+A.

As per the Devialet there are many people who like their sound and many who don't remember the Devialet is a Class D amplifier we had the Devialet gear and tried to sell it unsucessfully as it always sounded super impressive but was never musically involving.

And again as per the Persona's "killing the Kharmas, we will be happy to show you a picture of the $120k Kharma packed up and leaving.

For $120k a set of speakers has to be playing on a different league than a $35k set, and in this case the Kharmas weren't.

Again Gpr4blu, go ask Musicfx, who purchased a T+A after comparing it to a Pass Labs product, by the way we didn't sell him the T+A amp either!

Again why should this be a surprise, T+A is the largest electronics manfactuer in Germany with a full time staff of 14 engineers, how big do you think Pass Labs is or D'agastino. 

Most of these companies have one to two engineers tops and are most likely have two to 10 employees. 

This is not the latest hot brand gearing up in some Silicon Valley garage. T+A was launched in 1978 and has been a market leader in Europe ever since. Located in the town of Herford in North Rhine, Westphalia (a center for many high tech enterprises), T+A has been breaking new ground over the last thirty years with such diverse audio products as dynamic speakers, electrostatic speakers, turntables, digital to analog converters, streaming products and of course preamplifier, amplifier, and integrated amplifier designs.

Many folks are probably not aware that back in the day, T+A was a key player in active speaker research and development in parallel with Meridian, in digital audio research and development in parallel with Wadia, and with electrostatic speaker design with support from Sennheiser. Several premier companies like Soulution, Spectral and CH Precision are receiving accolades for their wide bandwidth amplifier designs, but T+A has also applied wide bandwidth technologies to their latest line of flagship components. The T+A legacy has a strong foundation.

Siegfried Amft is the original founder of the company and still leads the way as President with a strong vision and commitment to offer the very best in high end. Lothar Wiemann is the head of Research and Development and is a key contributor to many of the innovative designs implemented throughout all the product lines. Like the company name, I think you will be hearing about these two gentleman more and more often in the near future, and for good reason.

Together with a staff of over hundred employees, including fourteen graduate level hardware and software engineers, T+A continues to roll out an outstanding combination of both market and technology driven product portfolios. Make no mistake about it though, T+A is all about engineering, innovation and quality. The musicality and emotional connection that these products provide are the additional icing on the cake.

Performance:

Paired with the Strads, the PA 3100 HV ($21,500) quickly reminded me of my two favorite integrated amplifiers, the D'Agostino Momentum ($45,000) and Vitus RI-100 ($13,200). Yes, I realize from a price perspective that this is not an apples to apples comparison. On the other hand, we all know that price is not always an indicator of sound quality and system compatibility. Of the dozen or so analog integrated amplifiers that I have reviewed over the last four years, these three are clearly the premier performers based on my ears and biases.


For me, the T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amplifier and the PDP 3000 HV SACD/CD/DAC are two of the top players in their respective component categories.  Depending on compatibility and specific system needs, maybe even the gold standard for now. Of course, I have not heard everything and there seems to be something new announced every day—especially in the digital world. But, compared to some of the very best, there is no question that they perform at an elite level and will provide enjoyment for years to come. When you take into account the engineering, technology and quality that is implemented throughout, these two are an absolute must audition. Highly recommended!

And as you usually do by casting aspiritions and doubts about my character, just remember VAC, BAT, Nordost, REL and many other products that went into SBS and Innovative Audio were discovered and championed by yours truly. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

No Jmcgrogan, we are not the same person as Bo. Nor do we behave the same way.

Bo basically states Monitor Audio Platinum speakers are the only "tru fi" whatever that is, that can sound realistic.

In many of our posts, we talk about not just our speakers but others that we don't sell that we also respect and also recommend.

Also I have no idea on Bo's experience while I have over 30 years of field experience.

As per "salesmanship" and not liking it, maybe instead of refuting someone who has had the Devialets along with a ton of other good brands and saying maybe the guy is right and I should look at brand x, I hear incredulous arguments, like from guys like Khost who believes that measurements in hifi are valid ways of weeding out and evauating product.

Perhaps it is you guys who are the real problem, I have stated time and time again, we are brand agnostic, if we find something better we move into that, yet I see the same arguements made to diparage anything that we recommend.

As per Gr4blu he has stated time and time again about not liking me, for that reason, he should not be allowed on these forums as he is not adding anything to the discussion, you should not be allowed to attack another member, it is small minded and again it is diverting the discussion which should be about which amp, speakers or whatever that can assit the OP.

As per testing look at the videos of our shop or our facebook page, we have tested and continue to test most of the hot gear on the market.

For example the Mytek Brooklyn is now one of the hotest dacs on the market guess what we have one. 

Usually if a product line is leading the pack we get it.

When I said we tested Devialet on numerous high end referernce speakers and we tested many other brands and have agreed with two reviews which stated just how good the T+A gear is, we wouldn't have to quote long passages of those same reviews to prove a point.

How about trying this one on, Hey that T+A gear may be  great, look at these reviews, maybe I will contact the importer and find out where I can hear these products for myself so I can make up my own mind and by the way that doesn't necessarily mean we are the closest dealer or are even in the same state or country as the OP.

Take Musicfx, he tested a T+A vs a Pass Labs integrated, perhaps that might tell you something, again, we are not saying Pass or Sim or Ayre are not great products, we are saying that T+A may be even better  and is worthy of an audition and the company based on its sheer size and resources may make a product which is really special.

We don't force buyers to call us, or to visit our shop, the people who actually come in are usually very impressed by our sound and the range of gear which we offer.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Thank you Ricrid1.

I think we recommended Isoacoustics to you they made a rather large difference in your system for a low cost didn’t they?

We test a lot of diffrent products al the time, and yes cables Richard cables are very system dependent on a dark sounding system the AQ might work out better, the Wireworld Platiniums in our tests had a wider soundstage and were overall better in definition and were a bit smoother.

However it is the total system voicing that will matter most and all pieces in the chain must work together.

You should try in Isotek Syncro going to your power conditioner made a rather large improvement on the systems we have tested it on.

Richard is a model of decorum, he has talked with us, and knows we have the client’s best needs at heart.

Notice we are not yelling motorcyle parts clearance, and some of the people who have read these posts have purchased these products not from us based on being on another part of the world or the country. 

No Grgr4blu there really is a Troy. As per other dealers who knows how many apparent posters are mysterously posting certain threads that favor certain dealers? Where then that dealer can chime in with their persepective?

As per selling, there would be none of this is instead guys like Grgr4blu start with some of the replies that you come out with.

Most of our posts are like hey why don’t you check out X, Y or Z at these products might really work for you.

As per one famous Grgr4blu tiff, a guy with a tiny 10 *17 room was inquiring about Wilson Alexias, which will not work for that size room, we suggested he find a set of Persona 9H which will work in a tiny room due to active room correction or a set of Legacy Aeris same reason, and boom a huge back and forth.

Hey Grgr4blu why don’t you get off your high horse and let the OP find out for themselves what they will and won’t like, and that may consider some of the products we represent or not or mention or not.

As per twoleftears or Wolf Garcia, not coming in for a visit, who are you hurting? Not us, we got plenty of people who like us, see the recent addition to one of the threads expousing our approach.
ronrags112 posts01-14-2018 7:37pmI had a very unusual but wonderful experience visiting Dave, the Audio Doctor. Unusual by means of his home and business in a Victorian home in Jersey City. I arrived 15 minutes early for an 11am appointment on Sunday and was greeted by his down to earth and friendly wife. We spoke for about 15 minutes discussing this old Victorian home while Dave was getting prepared for my arrival. She offered something to drink and I asked for a cup of tea in which she complied graciously. The house was set up with a large variety of top named components in different rooms ranging in prices from affordable to very expensive. I didn’t feel I was in a showroom but in a friend’s living room which added to the experience.

Next up, Dave himself, one of the nicest and enthusiastic person you want to meet. For the next 2 hours we spoke about audio equipment and his knowledge was quite impressive. He worked at some of the high-end audio shops in Manhattan I use to visit with my brother back in the 70s and 80s. I felt as if i was speaking to an old friend. I guess we both got caught up in our interest and enthusiasm of audio equipment that I almost forgot why I was there in the first place. Not once during this time period did Dave try to sell anything. The next hour we discussed music servers and Dacs and did some listening.

But what blew me away, Dave offered to bring some components we discussed to my home to audition. Wow, talk about great service! After over 40 years of auditioning audio equipment at many showrooms in the New York area, I cannot recommend a better experience and the hospitality of the Audio Doctor.
Report thisjayctoy1,542 posts01-14-2018 10:13pmI find audiotroy very knowledgeable and informative, in this site. I learned when I read his post.Thank you for sharing your knowledge for free...

Twoleftears you are basing your opinion of us based on your opinions of a few people here who have never been to our store, or heard our products setup in our shop?

Or the fact that we are trying to recommend some of the best products in audio and some of these products are less expensive than many other ones. Good luck to you sir.

If I were you I would have had the opposite opinion, I would have wanted to see if the dealership was all that it was been cracked up to be and would have wanted to see what the experience was like and I might have called and had a conversation with the Audio Doctor guys and see for myself.

Too bad and good luck to you on your roadtrip, John is a very good dealer and he does know his stuff, our two shops are totally different and our product selection is way different. 

George a demo in a shop is just that, our shop does not use a switch board, all gear is in power conditioners and the rooms sound good and yes we know about the shorting out trick that is very old audio news. We never claim that you are going to get 100% out of a speaker on demo at our shop, we tell our clients that the speakers will sound better in their homes. 

Wolf as per pushy you are totally wrong, we are not pushy on the contrary
look at people who have been to the shop and worked with us.

As per pushy, you may mistake enthusiasim for pushiness, and no sales guy no matter who good they are can make you want to purchase anything, if you came to the shop and we were demoing a particular product and you didn’t like it, after maybe changing cables or other things and we then switched to something else is how we generally work.

A few weeks ago, a forum poster came to our shop and listened to two systems both didn’t sound right and we argeed with them. Didn’t try to ram down our opinion as fact, turned out a number of things led the systems to sound bad from a new digital cable, a new dac, furniture was moved and lastly found out yestereday someone turned on the preamps’s loudness and cranked up the bass, as this particular preamp has a bybass and room correction eq functions. Now that one reference system is starting to make magic again.

We don’t demand that if you don’t like a particular product that you are wrong or don’t know what sounds good. Funny thing, that exact same thing happened to me when I went to a store many years ago CSA audio in Monclair Dale the owner said I was totally wrong, and I didn’t know what sounded good.


Looking at audio equipment can be a painful experience, sort of like looking at new (or used cars) or a trip to the dentist. I spent 4.5 hours at Audio Doctor in New Jersey. It was a great experience. Dave left a meeting early to see me. He knew that I was not looking at his very high end stuff, but he spent the whole day with me. No pressure, changing speakers many times and going back to a couple of them repeatedly. I have it narrowed down to two speakers, Vivid 1.5 or Janszen Valentia with air motion. Leaning toward the Vivids (pending wife approval). The shop is full of lots of incredible audioequipment at all price ranges. Clearly this is a business that is run out of appreciation of sound rather than maximizing profits.I am hesitant to go to small intimate shops like this out of concerns or pressure. This was just the opposite. Highly recommended.crwindy

Last but not least, Dave and his wife prepared a wonderful dinner for me while I was speaker-auditioning- the tastiest Mexican Tacos I have ever had! I spent a total of 4 hours at the store, and Dave even gave me a lift back to the PATH train station (I live in NYC)... so without a doubt, I would rate the customer service at this place as the best I have ever seen in my years of visiting audio stores on both coasts.

So for the NY/NJ area audiophile crowd, Audio Doctor merits an in-person visit and comes HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!ph2

At this point in my audio journey I was still trying to figure out what sounds were pleasing to me. I was very much in an information gathering mode. Even though my budget was small, at no point did I feel that I was being rushed. Dave listened to what my needs were and made appropriate recommendations and imparted a ton of information to me which was invaluable in my audio search.

He was very hospitable and offered to make me tea a few times. The showroom is very comfortable. And the selection/variety of gear is second to none.

audionoobie

Does’t seem that these guys thought we were pushy, how many stores give you four hour demos?

Wolf you are invited and more then welcome to see if we live up to the hype of not and you can see for yourself if we are pushy in person.

We sell alot of brands that are really excellent that are not seen in many stores,if you had heard some of them you might realize that some of these products may be better than a lot of the well advertised brands that many people on these forums talk about.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Ralph,

As per having more than one speaker in a room, 99.9 percent of dealers unfortunately have to do this as loudspeakers do take up space.

We only have one set of speakers on deck so to speak so you can acutally get a pretty good idea of what they sound like.

Yes in an ideal world you would have only one set of speakers

In our reference room we have one set of speakers on each wall so we have two active speakers on display,

As per the results of the demo, you can still easily hear the difference between the different makes and models.

Just like if I demoed an OTL amp vs another type of amp using decent but not great cables would be demo be all of a sudden not be valid and therefore by a hoax?

Sure if we used even better cables the system should point out even greater amounts of information, but two different amps should sound noticably different don’t you think?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Ralph we know about that trick, what you said is that having multiple speakers in the room completely invalidates the results, when they don't.

Wolf sorry but what you feel is unethical is done all the time on these forums and others many others/

If you think that their aren't shills or people who are directly affiliated with dealers or manufacturers who hide behind their screen names and post away, you need to wake up.

As per invalidating anything, when we tell the story of what products we tested brand x against and brand x beat brand y in these ways, many people who read these posts find that not as gospel but as a way of perhaps finding out about a new brand or a new product that they didn't know about or where not considering and find these discussions helpful.

We usually have pictures which back up the products we have been testing at the time, such as the $120k pair of Kharams, we passed on.

When I mentioned  that Musicfx who did not purchase anything from us, found out about the brand we were recomending and sought out a dealer on his coast, he is in CA, and lo and behold found out the product we were recommending beat the Pass and beat the Prima Luna and made his Wilson Sashas sound fantastic, do you think he was happy to be reading our posts? Did we gain anything? The answer is no. 

We have talked with many nice people all over the country and all over the world and most of these people have not purchased anything from us.

If we have it your way many new products would not be tried in peoples systems or even found out about in the first place, as the buyers can't always find a way of demoing a particular brand.

Do you think we know everything, we like you guys read the magazines, scour the forums and if a new product or brand makes sense we bring it in and test it vs our display inventory, when it is better we bring it in and sell off the older inventory.

Wolf what you read about and choose to do business with and make your opinions is up to you, if you read the posts about people who follow us and who have been to our shop, most people are blown away by the sound we can produce and the wide range of products we display.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Gdhal what is fact vs opinion? Everything in life is pretty much an opinion when it comes to subjective products.

Is a bottle of $80 Scotch better than a $20 one? It depends on your taste buds and knowlege about Scotch. 

As per the two reviews did any of you guys actually read them?

We had nothing to do with either of these reviews, we don't know Allan Taffel and I think Roger Kano, from Postive Feedback wrote the other review, and we don't know him either. 

I mean common when the Postive Feedback guy states that the $21k T+A amp is in the same class as a $45k D'agastino and you are in the market and can afford such a product would you:

A: Pay twice as much for a D'agastino Momentum Integrated and just trust that because it is a D'agastio it has to be better and be done with it

or:

B: Try to figure out where I could listen to the  T+A piece and see if it really sounds as good or possibly better for half the price?

As per Gpgr4blu's past comments on seeing other products getting similar screeming value reviews, ie a much less expensive product doing battle with one that is 2-3 times its price, I can't really remember seeing too many of those. 

Usually you get what you pay for. 

Musifx read our posts went to his dealer and came to the same conclusion and now is happily in the same camp, and he owns a T+A 2500r integrated, the problem is with all the negativity you guys engender very few people want to chime in and state their experiences. 

You can search up his forum posts and see for yourself.

Per Mr. Mcgrogan, yes who doesn't like a little T+A? 

You will also notice we have never said it is the best, we have said many times that is among the best, YMMV, and is generally priced 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of the best gear.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Gdhal, there is no such thing as fact in audio when it comes to human ratings as the determiing factor.

Fact which is better a Mercedes or a BMW?

Not stastical data on HP, resale, size of trunk, cost of operation.

Please tell me which is better?

Now if you can tell me in your opinion one is better I am willing to bet ancedotal evidence will be presented, not hard facts.

Who is the best actress? Who makes the best ____________

When polled most people will have wildly different opinions on what the best of anything is in audio, wine, food, acting, painting. music, etc.


Also please pour a $2.00 bottle of Ripple, a $10 bottle of wine, and a bottle of 1957 Chateau Lafeet into a gass chromatagraph and see if it tells you statstical data on the real differences that anyone with a palette can easily taste.

Ball is in your court.

Facts are proven by science, opinion is based on human interaction, consenus, and subjective testing and biases.

Bubba why don,t you pm Musicfx and ask him why he choose the 2500r over the Pass?

You can see why people stay away from these threads the negativity is ridiculous.

From arcane discussions of transistors to an attack on our sound room and knowledge from a cranky old otl amp guy who doesnt undestand the logistics of being able to offer more than one choice of speakers.

If you noticed Bubba the attacks were frequent. Did you ever get ancedotal evidence of anyone comparing amp x to amp y and telling you why amp x was better which might actually help you?

The way we get interested in a product is the review.

Although everyone may value different things a very positive review is a way to find out if a product is worth checking out in the first place.

We checked out the brand because of the TAS review which compared an 18k Integrated to a 120k worth of Swiss ref gear and we thought many people would want to hear such a cool product.

It was only after testing and comparing did we know this gear was special.

Bubba maybe the audiogon community is made up of such brand loyal fanatics that you cant teach these old dogs something new.

Karurravi,

A tube amplifier even an excellent one may not be the best match with the Dynaudio and it is possible the extra power and bass control of the Bel Cantos is doing it for you compared to what the tube amplifier was doing.

T+A's older products were always very good, with that being said their newer solid state products are the ones that people are freaking out about  and rasing the company's reputation as making some of the world's best gear.

Why don't you go to your dealer if you have one that sells T+A you should give the latest solid state products a demo. 

The new HV series sounds like smooth tuby sound with great bass and dynamics and with excellent information retrival.

Just a thought. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Greginnh, actually that is a great idea.

So far no one has asked for an in home demo believe it or not.

We have the separates on display later this year we will get an HV and R series integrated on display.

We did have the 2500r in for a week and it was amazing.

As per T plus A being better than 90 percent of the stuff out there never said that.

It is so special because it hits all the bases musicality with resoloution. Super build quality with great features these ars things we value.

It is in that same level of gear as Soloution, Burmester, CH and others.

If we are heading to your area we would be delighted to bring some over to you.

As per Plinius good stuff sold it for years we had an SA 103 it is not in the same class as a T plus A which is like the Devialet in terms of speed & clarity but with much greater midrange and superior musicality.

If the OP has a Devialet D400 an $18k 400 watt mono which we also sold, he kind of needs to move into a similar level of product.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Xp 12 $5800
Xa 25 $5000
Good int $1000-3000

11800- 13800 for 25 watts 

R series 2500 integrated $11,500
140 watts 

Hv int $18,000 300 watts 

Again Devialet D 400 $18,000

Seems we are in the same ballpark.

Mr Jmcgrogan,

Over the years we have had Chord, Electrocompaniet, Plinius, Hegel, Luxman, Devialet, in both our reference room and our next step down room.

We tested out the Thrax gear which was fantastic, and have run demos vs Boulder and big Krells plus a couple of other demos.

So far the only thing that beat the T+A gear we were comparing was a $90k set of big boulder amplifers which were three times the cost. 

So yeah we would say the T+A gear is pretty special.