Thinking of Magnepan ... finally!

@mesch enjoy your maggies!! do you have subs? iirc you are coming from klipsches, yes? i cannot think of a more different musical presentation, as special as both are have fun!

@campoly   @krelldreams  Thanks! I find the Maggies to sound very articulate with the XA-25. Extended highs without grain, wonderful midrange, enough bass in my small room to satisfy, not earth shaking however precise. 

@jjss49 I don't have subs. Maybe give that a try in the future. I own Tannoy Sterlings which are used in our living room system. I also own two pairs of stand mounts, Esoteric MG10s which were my main speakers over the last 10 years, and Fritz Carbon 7 se MKIIs which I purchased last fall to compliment my Aric Audio Transcend tube amplifier. Both pairs mate well with the XA-25. Good to hear from you again!

@mesch

ahh yes tannoys, not klipsches...😁

please try a rel sub (or better, a pair) when you have a chance with the lil maggies -- i think you will love it

for little maggies (or even large ones) it is in my experience quite transformative of the listening experience!

 

@jjss49

as you know i have a set of agd audions, after trying many other class d amps i did not enjoy, and the agd’s do very well with my 1.7i’s as well as 3.7i’s...

It was, in fact, your glowing review of the AGD’s that made me re-consider class D to begin with :)

I was quite skeptical based on prior experience with class D stuff (Peachtree and NAD) which simply did not work for me. But I have to admit, things have come a long way. I’m looking forward to trying it with my Aavik amp. Having said that, this is a strange hobby. If I really love the Maggie sound, I’m not opposed to going back to a high current class A/B amp if it works better. One thing I’ve learned in this hobby is that there are no absolutes. You never say never, and never proclaim something as your ’endgame’ component (Steve Huff, are you listening?)

@mesch Congrats on your new LRS+ speakers. From what I read, they punch above their weight and scale with better components far beyond one would expect. Please share further impressions as you put on more miles on the speakers. 

Question for you: Is there a specific reason you went with LRS+ and not a bigger model like 1.7i? Thanks. 

@arafiq  Thanks for the congrats and this post. I went with the LRS+ due to room size and placement of system that dictated a more near field situation than Magnepan  recommends. Currently I am close to a 7' equilateral situation.  I have only a single listening session with them being busy and having storms. I will surly keep in touch regarding future experiences. I will also try my best to better describe the presentation I am experiencing once i have had more time with them. 

I should add that the cost of entry made the decision to have the Maggie experience an easier one. Had I a larger room I may have go up to the .7 or even the 1.7i. Of course then I would likely need an amplifier other than the XA25. Not due to the speaker change but due the room volume to be pressurized. 

@mesch Thanks, and this makes sense. You did the right thing by buying what fits your room and budget. Regardless, I've only heard glowing reviews for this speaker.

I’ve heard a lot of different speakers and I don’t think you can beat their sound for the price. . . I would put my system up with the best of them. Like others have said going with a couple of subs will help fill out the bottom end. I recommend getting an active set up going to use four subs. I use Room EQ Wizard and Multi Sub Optimizer to help build the filters I need to cancel out the room nodes. The speakers run full range and are supported by the subs. It’s crazy how big a difference it makes and how much more accurate and impactful the base is but still perfectly integrated. I currently use a Mini DSP but I just got back home from AXPONA and was fantastic. I got a chance to meet some great people like John Siau with Benchmark and Gary Yacoubian with SVS. Two things I’m really excited about:

1. Al Clark, Pres/CEO of Danville Signal Processing. He spent a lot of time speaking with me and I’m going to be an early adopter of his dspNexus which will replace my Mini DSP at more than twice the fidelity and offers much more flexibility for an active crossover plus some fun things like Bluetooth play etc. I would never have known about this without going.

2. The best in show was the Minuet Speakers by Clarisys Audio playing in the room sponsored by and paired with Hegel amps. The combo was stunning and bests my 20.1’s by light years and there wasn’t another speaker in the place that could touch them by my ears. They have completely modified and improved on the Apogee system, solid aluminum frame weighing 210lbs per piece at 4ft tall. Frequency range 28Hz to 25KHz, my hair stood up the three times I listened to them. The sound was so coherent and effortless within the entire range. My wife couldn’t come to the show and when I called she said I sounded giddy. Of course they cost much more than my Maggie’s! I just thought I’d share as there are a lot of panel speaker enthusiasts here that might be interested :)

@arafiq

my memory is failing me a bit, not recalling if you are in texas, or are an east coaster (nc?)

there are a couple nice used pair of maggies, in texas, available for local pickup... 1.7i as well as lrs ... on the ’other’ used gear site 

if you are close, they could work well for you! 🍺

 

@jjss49 I'm in Texas (Dallas). I saw only one listed but it's the original LRS version (not LRS+). Maybe the other ones sold already?

the price was really good on that set of 1.7i’s with magna risers with local tx pickup... am sure they sold in a jiffy...

worry not, there will be others

@bdp24 

Adding a sub or two to almost any planar will result in improvements in a couple of ways. Most importantly, relieved of reproducing bass, the Maggie "woofers" will now reproduce the midrange in a noticeably improved manner. The speaker will also play louder, with less strain and distortion. And if you employ a high pass filter in front of the power amp (removing low frequencies from the input signal) the amp itself will produce less distortion, and more power will be available for the midrange frequencies.

If you don't put a high pass filter in front of the Maggie's amp, how can the Maggies be relieved of producing bass and play louder with less strain and distortion?  Do you mean only if you use a sub's built in high pass filter?

Good point @ketchup, highlighting a mistake I hadn’t realized I made. Yes, a high pass filter must be used if one wants to relieve any loudspeaker the duty of reproducing low frequencies. That filter may be installed in between a power amp and the loudspeaker it is driving (in the speakers internal cross-over, aka high-level), but if it is instead installed in front of the power amp (aka low-level), the amp will ALSO be relieved of that duty (the point I was focused on). Doing so benefits both the amp and the speaker, a win-win.

A simple 1st order filter (just a single capacitor) may be soldered onto the input jacks of the power amp (on the amp’s interior), but a higher-order filter (which will create a steeper roll-off) containing more parts will require an outboard, active crossover. Some powered subs contain a high-pass output on their control panel, but that filtering is always (to the best of my knowledge) accomplished with an opamp or integrated circuit, not discrete parts.

A great budget-priced ($1500) 2-way crossover was for a while offered by First Watt---the B4, but is now available only as a DIY kit. It provides 1st/2nd/3rd/4th-order filters (6dB/12dB/18dB/24dB per octave), for frequencies ranging from 25Hz up to 6375Hz. And does so using discrete parts.

The B4 has two pair of outputs---low-out and high-out, and each filter may be configured independent of the other; the high-out may be 1st-order and the low-out 2nd, or visa versa. Very flexible, and the B4 a great cross-over for those wanting to bi--amp MG.6 and earlier Magnepan models. They have parallel crossovers, while the .7’s are series. Of course if used for subwoofer applications, that doesn't matter.

Oh, and by the way:

For anyone with a Maggie model that includes an outboard cross-over box, the First Watt B4 can be used in place of that box. While almost all other loudspeakers have cross-overs that included driver-compensation networks, the cross-overs in Maggies are purely "textbook" in nature: 1st, 2nd, or 3rd-order, with no driver compensation elements. The First Watt B4 is capable of creating the same filters are do the Magnepan outboard boxes, but in superior quality. Not to beat up on Magnepan, but everyone knows they use junk parts in their cross-overs.

So a local audiophile was gracious enough to invite me to his house to listen to his Magnepan-based system. His speakers are 20.7 driven by Audio Research amps. I'm planning to visit his home in 1-2 weeks. I understand that 20.7 is way outside what I'm planning to spend on Maggies at the moment, but at least it will give me a taste of what these speakers are capable of. Looking forward to the visit. 

The 20.7 is Large, but boy will it sound good,

i would say that in my experience, once you get to 1.7i and above, alot of the sound quality depends on how the speaker loads the room (and how loud one wants to listen)... i still have both the 1.7i and 3.7i and the size of the panels load my room very differently (17x22 well treated dedicated room) and i would imagine going to even bigger panels of the 20.7 and 30.7 would definitely be too much of a good thing... in fact i feel the 3.7i in my room can already overload the room in the midbass if i am not careful and i need to get the placement just right (and employ dsp control) to make them sound just right

there are those who have said that 3.7i has the true ribbon tweeter over the 1.7i quasi ribbon unit... i think both have absolutely outstanding treble, with the 3.7i having more treble energy - but i do not think the 3.7i resolves noticeably better than 1.7i

@jjss49 : I agree completely! My room is almost the same size as yours (15x21), and I’ve had both the 1.7i & the 3.7 set up with the same electronics, in the same environment, and I found the 1.7i to be an overachiever at the size and price. I ultimately chose to keep the 3.7, because it was, imo, “better” overall, but I would be happy with the 1.7i. As you described… the larger model loads the room slightly differently, and the high frequency energy is a bit more bold & airy, but the broad midrange frequency presentation is very much the same… and that’s to say, Very nice!

@jjss49 and @krelldreams Thank you for a real-world perspective of how these speakers behave in normal-sized rooms. My room is around 20x15 with 12 foot ceilings and fairly well treated. Based on what I'm able to glean from your experiences, I think 1.7i is definitely the right Maggie to get my feet wet. Is there a difference in bass response between the two, i.e. do you think the bass out on 3.7 is more compared to 1.7?

@arafiq : I was pretty satisfied with the low frequency response of my 1.7i, but I wanted “more of a good thing”, so I bought a pair of DWM bass panels. They added a bit of meat to the sound, but they were tricky to set up to blend with the mains, and they added too much, visually, to my room. I sold them, and frankly, don’t miss them. I loved the sound of my system with the 1.7i, but ultimately decided to buy a pair of 3.7 to “try out”, expecting “more bass” and “better highs”. Honestly, there was only a small increase in bass response, but the “overall presentation” of sound was better with the 3.7. Without hearing them side by side, I’m not sure the differences would be so apparent. As @jjss49 wrote; they load the room differently, and I preferred the sound. I’ve appreciated the sound of every Magnepan speaker I’ve owned, but these are clearly the best. 

Yes, If I had a larger room I would love to try the 1.7i.  In my room I am truly enjoying my LSR+s. 

Dang, this thread is giving me a big itch to try a Magnepan. 

I am interested in the active crossover idea. Keep my XA25 free from driving the lower base. Maybe I will check out that First Watt - B4 DIY kit.

Will the LRS+ fit into a 12 x 11 x 9 treated room?

Office System | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

@yyzsantabarbara, I’ve never had Maggie’s in a room that small so I won’t speculate on how they would sound. Apparently Magnepan says yes.

Here is what Magnepan says about that from their FAQ section:

“A typical consumer question-- "Is the _________(model)_________ too big for my room?" From an acoustical standpoint----No.

Ideally, the _______(model)_________ should be 8 feet tall so it goes all the way to your ceiling. The ideal line-source speaker would be very narrow like a pole from floor to ceiling (and have no mass).

The Magneplanars are large because of the bass section. If Magnepan sold only the portion of the 3.7i or 20.7 that operated from 200 Hz and up, the question of speaker size would seldom come up. Most of the area of a Magneplanar is needed for bass reproduction.

The larger, higher definition Magneplanar will sound better than a lower-priced model, even in a small room. To use an analogy, a high definition video monitor does not lose resolution when placed in a small room. Buy as much Magneplanar resolution as your budget will allow. Accuracy (or high definition) is the most important feature of the larger, more expensive models. To use a video analogy, with a high definition monitor, you can see the individual blades of grass, not just a sea of green. The smaller models may fit into a room more easily, but for accuracy, they can’t equal the larger, more expensive models.”

@yyzsantabarbara :  I used to sell Magnepan speakers (and I’ve owned several models myself). There were times, as a salesman, when I cautioned a potential buyer that the room “may be” too small for a model they were considering. I always (almost always) hand delivered, set up, and made initial adjustments for each pair… plus our store had a generous return policy in case they didn’t work out. I was pleasantly surprised by how they sounded in a room “too small” on many occasions. They “blossom” more effectively in a larger room, but the tone, detail, and clarity were still present. I believe it would be worth the try! Even though they may sound “better” in a bigger room, I believe they will still sound great, and provide a healthy dose of the magic they’re capable of. Good luck!!

yyzs I had the LRS+ in a room your size and they sounded great...sometimes used REL T/Zero lll subs...amp was odyssey Cyclops Integrated...the speakers are so easy to move ...

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to give it a try. One reason I want to do this is because I was reading a review of my RAAL CA-1a headphones, and the reviewer stated that it sounded like a Maggie without the room issues. I have both the RAAL SR1a and CA-1a phones and I have yet to hear speakers that sound better than them (the room is a big factor as is the ribbon driver).

SAEQ Hyperion Ge and RAAL Requisite CA-1a | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews (hifi-advice.com)

I also have a great amp in the office, a CODA #16, and it is not really getting a workout with my KEF LS50 Meta.

I sold my KEF KC62 sub last month and bought it back yesterday for the LRS+. That was a $200 loss.  😀

I will alternate between the LS50 + KC62 and the LRS+ and KC62. 

@campoly I did read that FAQ and also asked Magnepan a question about my room (no response yet). Whatever the case I am going to buy it and give it a try. Reading here about the popularity of the LRS+ makes it an easy resale. Though I think it will work based on what I have read and the feedback I got.

I think they will work too. Especially since you have some room treatments. I find (in my room) that absorption on the front wall kills some of the sense of spaciousness. I have absorbsion/scattering panels on the rear wall and diffusion panels on the front and side wall. Maggies require an extended break in period. Don’t expect miracles out of the box but when they open up, it’s a beautiful thing.

+1 @campoly : These speakers take time to break in… more so than any other speaker I’ve had experience with. I believe it’s due to the fact that the entire panel needs time to “relax”, rather than just the surround material. Even used ones need a bit of time if they haven’t been played for awhile. They’re very special, but they need a little consideration of their unique characteristics. 

@krelldreams, true dat! Every model I’ve had sounded a bit disappointing out of the box. Fortunately, they get better with age. I’ve found that about 3 months is a good break in period but they still continue improve after that.

@yyzsantabarbara I'm so excited that you're planning to give LRS+ a shot. Given your vast experience with gear at different price points, not to mention your ability to always keep an open mind, I can't wait to hear your impressions.

How far out are you able to pull out the speakers from the front wall? Do you plan to augment them with a sub? I've also read that replacing the stock stands with Magnarisers have a huge impact on sound quality. IMO, if you order the LRS+ you should also order the stands at the same time.

Not sure if I have vast experience, just recent experience. I placed a 50% deposit on the LRS+ today. I may get lucky and get the LRS+ this week, otherwise, maybe another 3 months of waiting.

I emailed Maga Risers earlier today and will order a stand from them when they get back to me.

I can get about 36 inches from the front wall. I also have the room treated. I had the Thiel CS3.7 in the same room for 2 years and while not allowing it to shine at its full potential, it was not a bad setup. The LRS+ should be a bit easier to setup. I will sit about 8 feet away. I sit with my back to the speakers and have an additional 4 feet of open closet space in front of me. That extra space was a big help. I can keep the speakers about 6-7 feet apart.

I also have the KEF KC62 subwoofer, which I sold last month and bought back last week (for the LRS+). That was a painful $200 loss.

BTW - after about a decade of waiting, I also plan to buy my Livingroom speaker tomorrow, the Yamaha NS5000. I will be using my modded PeachTree GAN1 on it (don’t laugh it is an excellent amplifier after the mods). In my office, I will be using a CODA #16 amp on the LRS+.

I was expecting to get the KEF Blade 2 Meta but I have a kids birthday party happening this month at my home and the thought of all those kids near an unprotected Blade drivers made me go with the NS5000. The GAN1 can also drive the NS5000, I doubt the GAN1 could properly drive the Blades.

Interestingly, I think the LRS speakers I purchased last year just opened up.

I'm mentioned here that I switch them with another pair of speakers (Fritz) and they probably see 25% of the play-time ...So even though I took delivery of them almost a year ago, they have very low hours.

I thought they were fully broken in and I've been happy with them after about a couple weeks of listening and adjusting.  Then sometime over the winter I started to feel that they were getting better.  The 'diffuse' nature of Magnepans kind of sync'd up and, at once got both more focused but also deeper.

Then , just last month I had them out for a week...rediscovering how good they are.  And the sound got better again.

In my case, contrary to what a lot of ppl say, I felt that out of the box the treble was soft .  It was confusing since so many ppl say the highs can be difficult.  Well they have sharpened while the bass has also extended into a satisfyingly deep and controlled musicality ...even without a sub.  (although I do usually use subs with them).  I would articulate it as a bigger sound , focused yet relaxed.  

I wish I had tracked the number of hours until this point.  Also, I wonder if taking them out of rotation so much starts the process over in some way?  The only reason they get less playtime is the visual aspect as I have to keep the living room usable in other ways.  Plus the Fritz speakers sound amazing too and the LRS are so easy to move as long as you have a good place to stash them when not in use.

I have them on Magnarisers "Slimline 2" stands that I purchased when I was waiting the 6 months for the LRS to get to me.  They are powder coated in the same cream color as the LRS's.  I prefer tweeters on the outside.

thanks

JS

 

Got some good news today. My LRS+ is ready for me to pick up. Problem is finding time to make that 1-hour drive.

I will have the KEF KC62 sub arriving on Friday. Since I listen for about 15 hours a day in my office these 2 units should get worked in fairly fast.

@yyzsantabarbara 

did you still keep your benchmark ahb2's?  they should do well with the lil maggies in your room!

@yyzsantabarbara Congrats! How were you able to get them so fast? I've heard the wait times are quite long ... unless you're buying used. Looking forward to your impressions.

I'm still on the lookout for a used pair of 1.7i's in the DFW area. Nothing so far.

Did you say what amp you’re using with them?

I see now you mentioned the Coda 16, should be quite the pairing 

@arafiq I got lucky. When I called the dealer on Monday they said a new delivery was expected the next day. Lucky for me they had an extra unclaimed pair. I will pick them up on Sunday but will only be able to listen on Monday.

@jjss49 I sold my AHB2 monos because I liked the modded PeachTree GAN1 more and I also like the simplicity of the GAN1 system. My CODA #16 has become my favorite amp now, The PeachTree GAN1 next fav, and then the AHB2. They AHB2 have a sonic signature that I think I like the best, but I am finding it underpowered. For high sensitivity speakers I would put them on the top of my list, but I never get high sensitivity speakers.

I also got a great deal on the Yamaha NS5000 speaker yesterday (for a bigger Livingroom) and bought them too. I had to trade in my Lumin X1 DAC for that, but that is where the PeachTree GAN1 saves the day. I am done now speaker shopping.

I was hoping to use the AHB2 mono's + Audience FrontRow speaker cables (very short length) for the NS5000 if that ever materialized. I really did not expect this purchase to happen, However, I sold the AHB2's before I got the very agreeable deal on the NS5000. I think the PeachTree GAN1 will work very nicely but if it does not then another CODA #16 would be great. 

 

3.6R's, purchased used as a trade-in from a local audio/video store. The price was extremely aggressive since they just wanted to get rid of them (look up the used price online and it was 1/3 of that).

Yes, these particular speakers need a lot of power.  They will suck up the entire output for an 380wpc amplifier and bring it to a reasonably loud presentation.

As far as light bass.... well...  yes and no.   Some of it is the room and placement, but if you want that tight-punchy bass that you can feel in your sternum, they won't do it by themselves.   I may try a subwoofer, but I tend to listen to all types of music, and I think the presentation is well balanced and very relaxing to listen to.

I can't speak to the newer speakers, as this particular dealer doesn't not sell them new, but I did listen to the speakers  for an hour or two and I bought the integrated amp at the same time since the two seemed a good match (NAD M33).

Someone else said to listen to them, and I think that's a good place to start.

This may sound like a stupid question but how exactly do you order an LRS+ speaker on Magnepan's web site? The closest dealer is 3 hours from me. I heard they would let you order this speaker direct. There web site has no ordering options. They do have a speaker request form link but that's all I see. I filled that out several days ago and no reply back. I understand there is a several weeks waiting list.

@willywonka 

Phone call.  The wait time when I ordered mine was approximately 6 mos.  I should have them the beginning of July.

Please call me at 651-262-1936 if you want to place an order for the LRS+

Thank you and best regards,

Eric

[email protected]

Thanks for the information. I'll call them Monday. These won't be my primary speakers, but the price is low enough I want to give them a try. I've heard them several times at the shows. TMR was telling me approximately 10 weeks wait. I wonder if they can get them quicker than directly from Magnepan. I called Scott Walker Audio and they have them in stock but won't ship them to me even though I'm also in California.

3.6R’s, purchased used as a trade-in from a local audio/video store. The price was extremely aggressive since they just wanted to get rid of them (look up the used price online and it was 1/3 of that).

Yes, these particular speakers need a lot of power. They will suck up the entire output for an 380wpc amplifier and bring it to a reasonably loud presentation.

As far as light bass.... well... yes and no. Some of it is the room and placement, but if you want that tight-punchy bass that you can feel in your sternum, they won’t do it by themselves. I may try a subwoofer, but I tend to listen to all types of music, and I think the presentation is well balanced and very relaxing to listen to.

@tomrk  I’m finally getting punchy bass from my 3.6Rs that I can feel. I always had them in really good custom made stands, but the thing that transformed the bass was to bolt the driver panels into the mdf frames with 28 bolts per speaker (the factory staples are not good enough) and add stiffening members to the speakers that attach to the newly installed panel bolts. If it sounds a little crazy, it is, but it’s so worth it. They sound like a completely different pair of speakers.

@ketchup  Sounds interesting.    Any chance of getting a photo so I understand your placement?