Thinking about getting into vinyl again...

After 25 years. Any suggestions (besides don't ; )?

Thanks to my Audio Note Dac, I have an Awesome Digital setup and am very pleased with the sound. However I do love vinyl setups when I hear them. Further, now that my system's just the way I want it, I have nothing to obsess about, research, tinker with...etc.

I have a Modified Musical Fidelity A5 my, ears the best sound I've ever heard and I've tried many many pieces. (In fact, that may be why I've run into a wall, I'm done looking at amplification too). Hoping to avoid the whole phone stage thing... assuming the A5's is decent.

I want a decent vinyl setup -- but don't want to spend a fortune either. After exhaustive research I'm pretty set on trying a Rega P3 w the Elys2 cartridge (bit over a thousand new). Right or wrong, part of the reason I chose this is relative simplicity of setup and use. Although I'm open to messing with accessories and upgrades, I don't want to mess with spacers, complicated adjustments, changing arms, or hacking the table in any way.

Any thoughts about:

The move in general
Tips and tricks
Accessories: Cleaning Kits, scales, etc.
Upgrading that MM Cart (slightly, I don't want to spend more than a hundred or so more)
I thought a bit about getting a professionally restored Thorens?
Vendors (No real table dealers around me...looking at Music Direct...especially because of the easy return policy ....and they've been good in the past)

(Note: I will very likely stick to new on this as the idea of buying and shipping (again) a used turntable seems fraught with risk)

(One bonus question: When I switch my a5 to phono (nothing connected) i get some hum/noise...I'm assuming that's because nothing's connected to the the inputs or the ground?---Just hoping I don't go through all of this just to find out I have a bad phono section!)
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RP3 is a solid table. A groove tracer ref subplatter will make it much better. I would try it with an audio technica ml440la cartridge. You can get them for less than $150 on amazon.

Did you try listening to an audio refinement complete integrated when you were looking for amps? I have on for sale. PM me if you are interested.
Denon DP62L

Save $600 and buy used, this one seems like a deal.

Best of Luck

Hello M.

After 50 years of analog, I find that a well-set-up budget vinyl rig is superior to a poorly-set-up premium rig. I suggest that you buy a minimum vinyl rig (new, because then you can expect it to be OK) and learn how to set it up. Everything matters, so it takes patience and practice.

After you are pretty good at set-up, buy a better rig. The better stuff is not only more sensitive to set-up, but more sensitive to damage. Buying good stuff before you have set-up experience is risky, and can be counter-productive.
For your table/cartridge look into U-Turn Audio, a start up in Boston. It sells direct and has gotten some great reviews. Go for the Orbit Plus model.
I'm doing the same thing. I've done a lot of research and the Rega 6 is a great choice in that price range. I'm most probably going to save until I can afford a Well Tempered Simplex based on what my friend has told me about their upper line tables. It's one of the few TT's that sounds a lot better than anything in it's range is what he's said and there are a ton of reviews on that one and the Armedeas that say the same thing. That golf ball pivot set up for it's arm is amazing I guess. Just something you owe your self to look into.
Ok, If you want to follow on here. This is what I would look at doing with about $1000 to spend.

First, I'd shop for a good/great used turntable. I'd look for vintage higher end Made In Japan, Direct Drive models circa oh say 1975-1985 or so. Denon, JVC, Technics, Yamaha, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer etc all had quality tables that would be very good spinners. (price range oh maybe $500 ).

Next I'd buy a good reliable cartridge. But not spend more than $200 max. Check out Shure M-97xe, Denon DL-110, Audio Technica AT-440, Ortophon 2M Red or 2M Blue. To name a few (price range $80.00 to $200.00)

Finally, I'd buy a Spin Clean Record Washing system (about $80.00) a Carbon Fibre Brush (about $20-$30) A basic stylus cleaning brush. about $10.00>.

IMO this will get a listener off to a great start in enjoying vinyl. Total cost under $1000.00
Good advice by Les....
Vintage Japanese DD turntables are the cheapest way to 'buy' into quality vinyl sound.
Second hand vintage MM cartridges can often sound better than ├╝ber expensive LOMC cartridges......unless you're a brain-washed herd-following snob....:-)
Don't forget the steam unit for cleaning the vinyl. At about $30 it is a must. Think about it, steam is the best way to clean your carpet, it also is the best way to clean your vinyl.
If you are starting with no lps, I would be factoring in a VPI 16.5 for cleaning so you can build your collection with good used finds. In a year you will have a stand alone phono, mc cartridge, and a different table.
what device do you use and how? thanks.

I've got a couple of boxes left of LP's that the ex didn't toss by 'accident'. I've got a Rotel RT855 with VandenHull MM1 with very low hours. Both are working nicely. I worry a bit about the arm bearings and wonder if they need to be oiled or anything. Going with a 16.5 most probably and also getting the Bellari tubed MM pre amp as it's not too expensive and my dealer loves it for what it is. I'd love to hear the Well Tempered Simplex and Amadeus vs each other with a better pre and maybe Dynavector cart
I have a well tempered amadeus and it is excellent. If you can skip ahead and start here you should be very pleased.
I'd love to. Looks like my Juice Plus business is really starting to take off. That's all my play money so to speak. What cartridge are you using? If I go that high end (which I need to), I want the right cartridge and phono pre amp with it and that has to be in the equation.
Dear 18764: do you know what is better than owning a vinyl rig? Having a friend
who owns a vinyl rig. That's right, find a friend with a nice turntable and go
listen at his house. Take your own records over and clean them on his cleaning
machine. Use some of the money that you save to buy him a few records as gifts
and always bring some Chinese take out with you so he actually looks forward to
your visits.

Sure, digital sounds like crap; but do you know what it takes to get good sound
out of 19th Century technology? It takes a lot of money, time and yankee
ingenuity, aka tweaking. You will be trying to reproduce beautiful music out of
molded in squiggly grooves, moving at low speed, with a tiny chip of rock.
Could it be anymore medieval? Heck, the LP concept was probably put together
by a couple of engineers over beers as a bet. "Lets see how tightly we can
pack grooves onto a 12" disc and still get music out of it and see if people
will buy them."

Your friends will think that you have lost your mind when they see you spending
8 minutes prepping a disc for play, carefully cueing it up just to hear some tones
with background noise (tell them its supposed to sound like that) that gets really
edgy when down to the last track. Next, you'll be shopping for a vacuum tube
amplifier that throws out more heat than music just to have that charming
nostalgic glow to go along with the spinning vinyl and bobbing tonearm.

Use your money to get into HD Audio. Once you have invested in a state of the
art HD Audio DAC, you won't feel so bad when a new state of the art DAC comes
out a year later. You can just think of all the money that you saved not getting a
vinyl rig so that you can upgrade.

Once you start down the vinyl path be prepared to upgrade, tweak, throw things
against the wall, pull hair out and use naughty words. Remember as you snap off
a cantilever that it is ok. It is part of the learning process. Some records will
sound better than others. Some records will have skips. Its that one out of a
hundred great sounding record that will have you pawning the china for that
next level preamp, phono cartridge or even turntable.

If I haven't convinced you yet, lets do the math...

Process to play a CD:
1. Push button to open drawer
2. Select a CD and place in tray
3. Push button to close drawer
4. Press play on the remote once you have settled into your favorite listening
5. Listen to 46+ minutes of beautiful music, doze off in your chair
Total time to prep= 20 seconds or so
Total listening time= 46 minutes
Listening time to prep time ratio= 138

To play a record:
1. Inspect and clean stylus (2 minutes)
2. Select record and remove from jacket
3. Clean record on your cleaning machine (1 side) (4 minutes)
4. Place record on platter
5. Clamp record (optional- but you will get there) (1 minute)
6. Start turntable and cue tonearm (40 seconds)
7. Turn up volume on pre amp (10 seconds)
8. Run to listening chair before music starts (5 seconds)
9. Listen to 23 minutes of beautiful music, then jump out of your slumber when
you hear the big "KER CHUNK" as the stylus falls into the locking
groove at the end of the record.
Total prep time= 8 minutes
Total Listening time (1 side)= 23 minutes
Listening time to prep time ratio= 2.9

So as the math shows, digital music offers a listening time to prep time ratio 48
times greater than vinyl. Think about all the extra time in your life you will have
to a) listen to more music b) get a life.

There, I hope that helps you decide.
LOL... too funny. I'm assuming you are tongue in cheek here.
"...unless you're a brain-washed herd-following snob....:-)"
Dear Halcro: Ouch! That hits me a little too close to home. Here I wanted to ask if it is ok to use some furniture polish on the wood body of my Benz LOMC or would a $100/oz exotic wood oil improve the sound? What does everyone else do?
Hi CTsooner: It's supposed to be satire- or at least my attempt at satire. Maybe I'm not so good at satire. I am an engineer after all.
Thanks for providing all of us fanatics with your really funny take on the vinyl way of life.
There seems to be a lot of EMT TSD15 and Denon 103 users with the WTA using a SUT into a MM phononstage. I am using K&K MC phono with my EMT but will be trying SUT route this weekend.
Tony, I got it, but I had to make sure, lol. What's the viscosity of the furniture oil you are using? I find beez wax from a special African bee works best for tightening the bass, but at the expense of the soundstage. Just another tradeoff. ;)....see I really do get it
Ml8764ag, since you are looking at the RP3 from Music Direct, I'd recommend checking out the clearance RP40 from them too. It's basically an improved RP3 and when it's on sale it is probably the better way to go. Good luck.
Recommend you consider a Clearaudio Concept turntable.
Great engineering, pretty much plug and play.
Rega's seem ok, just hard to justify paying that much for a rough looking piece of half inch mdf and an average motor.
RP40 is not a bad choice if found on sale. However, almost sonically the same as RP3 with the addition of the TT-PSU. Also disagree with Keithtexas. RP3 may well be the audio revelation of the decade. With its much improved double brace tech, 24V motor, and RB303 tonearm, this extremely light and rigid design has been around for close to 30 years. Rave reviews everywhere. Not to mention an almost infinite upgradeable path. Just go for a better cart. Rega carts are subpar in nature. Try a DV10X5 and you will have a very decent set up.
Rega's are still a great table for the money. Do you care more about looks or how it sounds and stands up over time? I stopped by to see John at Audio Connection yesterday on my way to Philly (I'm in CT) and I walk out of there with a Heed phono stage, Basis 1400S with Benz Glider S. He sells the VPI, Basis, Clearaudio and Rega tables. Has most of the big boys covered. It will depend on your personal tastes like anything else, but I've learned that in audio, some of your best values are not always wrapped in 1" aluminum housings or the hand finished wooden plinths.
My Rega p3/24 has all the Groovetracer upgrades : acrylic platter , Ref sub-platter,white belt,Groovetracer 3mm spacer for RB301.I installed a Dynavector 10x5 and this table kicks butt! The Dynavector is the best match for the RB301. I have tried Denon and Nagaoka and they are good, not as good as the Dynavector though.
Sounds like a nice rig. I heard the Lynn and Rega 6 today with Vandy Quattro's. loved em both. Totally different sounds. I won't say which one I liked best, but the Vandy's ROCKED.
I have a hunch that dealers do better monetarily selling the Rega line, than with other brands, e.g. VPI. Had too many dealers try to nudge me over to Rega when I wasn't asking about them. These dealers normally don't do that with other types of products. Had it happen too many times to be a coincidence. Rega must a have a healthy distribution network in the US that makes them appealing to stocking dealers.
Keithtexas has a point about the Rega. There's not much too them to justify their price. The tonearms are very nice, but everything else is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools. Methinks that in the US much of the price is made up of import and exchange costs, not product. Not saying they don't sound great, I'm just saying that they are overpriced for what they are.
Dear Abrew19,

This is MY opinion and in NO way I am trying to persuade you otherwise.

TTs I've owned:
Empire Troubador, Technics SL1200 MKII, Denon DP-60L, Pro-ject 6.1SB, Rega P3, VPI Scout, Clearaudio Champion, Well Tempered Classic, Music Hall MMF7, Funk Firm Vector, Linn Sondek LP12, and now a heavily modified RP3.

Clear winner IMHO? The modified RP3

In it's defense, the Rega RP3 may well be the most significant audio product of the decade. The RP3 has been designed and engineered to achieve outstanding performance way beyond the expectations of a product at this price point......with the added bonus of an upgradeable path.

Most importantly, Rega concentrate the manufacturing costs on the high quality parts necessary to reproduce records accurately; bearing, double brace technology, 24V motor, tonearm, and not on "looks".

The so called "cheap light plinth" has been purposely and cleverly design to prevent energy absorption and unwanted resonances which will add unnatural distortions to the music. Sit this table on a sand box and completely eliminate unwanted vibrations from the 24V motor by locking it precisely with the Rega TT-PSU and you will have a dead quiet table capable of producing eeire black backgrounds with the right cart.

The arm is a killer! it has improved bearings and a tightened spindle fit tolerance over previous models. Each bearing is individually selected to find the perfect match for the chosen spindle. This is a proven method of increasing the amount of detail retrieved from the record surface.

The new RB303 uses the latest Rega arm tube found in the RB808 and RB2000 (completely redesigned to redistribute mass, further reduce stresses and resonances). This advanced design tube increases the stiffness and rigidity of the overall assembly using CAD design to blend the multiple varying tapers.

Excellent reviews everywhere! Best TT under $1,500.00, budget analog component of the year, 5 star What HiFi winner, the list goes on and on. So many audio experts can't be wrong, don't you think?

Better TTs out there? Hell yeah!!!
Townshend Rock 7, Well Tempered Amadeus, Acoustic Signature Wow XL just to name a few.

All TTs have strong and weak points. In the end, it all boils down to synergy and taste. I can happily say that my modified Rega RP3 "sings" better than any other TT I've ever owned and that I dont miss my rather expensive Linn LP12 set all.

Again, just my opinion!
Now, here we go MI8764ag:

1. Plan to spend between $1,300.00 - $1,500.00

2. Test your A5 amp phono section to find out if it works. If not, you will have to either repair it or go with an external phono pre (which means more money you will need to spend).

3. Buy new! Today's technology is far superior plus re-sale value is better.

VPI Nomad ($995.00) - You will get a decent package that includes:
A built-in phono preamplifier, a built-in headphone amplifier, an Ortofon 2M Red moving-magnet cartridge, a new gimbaled-bearing tonearm. What's cool about this table is that the built-in phono pre is built to perfectly complement the Ortofon 2M Series. So if you want better performance, simply upgrade the stylus! Clever indeed. Plus, the built-in phono pre will help you save money in case your A5 phono section isn't working.

Rega RP40 ($1299.00) - IMHO a much better option for $300.00 more that includes:
The new and improved RB-303 tonearm, custom-cut glass platter, lightweight titanium plinth with double-brace technology. The RP40 also comes equipped with a set of custom-designed anti-vibration feet, a new belt, and a special-edition white Elys40 cartridge, carefully tested to the highest achievable specs to deliver improved stereo imaging, balance and detail.

The real deal here is the addition of the TT-PSU. This unit maximizes the efficiency of the anti-vibration circuit while still offering the convenience of electronic speed change. So you will enjoy a dead quiet 24V motor!

Now the VPI Traveler starts at $1,500.00 sans cart. With a 2M red, it will match the price of a Clearaudio Concept with Concept MM cart at $1,599.00. $300.00 more than the RP40 without the power supply unit.

Based on your demands, and I quote "Right or wrong, part of the reason I chose this is relative simplicity of setup and use. Although I'm open to messing with accessories and upgrades, I don't want to mess with spacers, complicated adjustments, changing arms, or hacking the table in any way", then you will be better off with the Nomad or the RP40.

Spin Clean Washer MKII, Audioquest Carbon Fiber Record Brush, and a Clearaudio Diamond Stylus Brush should take care of the cleaning process.

Buy a few good records and Voila!!!!!!
great posts to all. I've been listening to a ton of tables lately. More than I should be, lol. I have found that most of the tables above 5 k (with arm and cart) are well worth it IF you can afford it. There are so many differences in the lower priced tables and I haven't loved all of them. My main dealer sells the Rega, VPI, Clearaudio and Basis. He was having me listen to the Rega 6, but then I noticed he had a Basis tucked away. I went with the Basis without hearing it. First product I've ever done that with, but I trust him and his analoge guy and he knows the rest of my system as I got it from him, lol. I'm so glad I made this purchase over the Rega 6.

I didn't like the 6 vs other tables I have heard it against, HOWEVER the other systems were much more money. I think the Rega was thin compared to the top of the line Linn, Basis, VPI, Well Tempered (finally heard one) and the German Ayre(DPS) with Ortofon arm and cart.

Turntables have so much that go into their sound and you really need a dealer you trust who has honestly heard different arm and cart set ups. The Rega arm is amazing as I've heard them all on different tables. For the price you really can't come close. I have found though that the TT and not the arm makes the biggest difference by far. It's not even close in that it drives everything. The better tables just sounded right and relaxed when you listen to them. Bottom line is that you can go anywhere with your vinyl and it will sound better than any digital. I finally heard top digital, including DSD done right and it sounds great. I'll gladly listen to it 80% of the time when I'm reading or on the computer, but when listening I relax more with vinyl.

The thing is that personally, I'm done with tweeking and rolling tubes etc... I'll put a Gingko Cloud under the TT as that thing is by far the best isolation device I've come across. Even tables that have their own special isolation sounded better overall with the Gingko vs those without. I"ve heard a ton of other higher cost platforms, but they changed the sound and didn't always make ti better. Some would tighten up everything, but they ruin the stage or the highs. Some would clean up the stage and ground it, but ruined the bass or sucked out the mids too much for me.

Bottom line is that you need to get what you like. The phono stage means just as much as does the wiring. Lot's of variables, but the basic table, cart, arm set up for 500 on a Gingko Cloud 10 has sounded better to my ear than all of the 20k digital set ups that dealers were demoing for me.
Dear Ctsooner,

Great post as well. Just a few comments:

The RP6 retails for $1,500.00 but its basically an RP3 with the TT-PSU included which, IMHO, is Rega's least attractive offer. Basically no significant sonic difference from the $200.00 least expensive Rega RP40. That said, at $1,300.00, it has no business sounding this good!

The Clearaudio Concept and the VPI Traveler may be included in this cateory but they are priced at least $200.00 more. Actually, I did a head to head comparison between the Clearaudio Concept (Concept MM cartridge) and the Marantz TT-15s1 (Virtuoso cartridge) and the Marantz, hands down, blew the Concept away. Similar engineering, much better cart.

Your Basis 1400S with a Rega arm goes for around $3,500.00 (add at least another $1,000.00 or so if you purchased it with the Vector tonearm) plus another $1,200.00 for the Glider S and now you're in the $4,700.00 - $5,700.00 range.

My point is that it will be unfair to compare the RP6 with Linn LP12, Basis 1400S, VPI Classic, WT Amadeus, etc. Now, the RP8 ($3,000.00) and/or the RP10 ($5,500.00) would be a fair comparison.

Rega TTs up to the RP6 are considered a great value albeit their limitations. This is why so many Rega owners love to tweak their TTs. Groovetracer's (to name just one company) reference sub-platter (zirconium ball/sapphire thrust plate), delrin platter, and counterweight are superior to Rega's entry level equals, but no longer necessary when you move up to the RP8/RP10 line.

One more comment, did you try the RP6 sitting on top of the Ginko platform? Because I agree with you %100 that all turntables need special attention to isolation, specially lightweight TTs like Rega!

That alone may have been the reason with the RP6 sounded thin to your ears. My heavily modified RP3 is sitting on top of a custom made, 50 pounds sand box, replaced the rubber feet with threaded/adjustable brass cone footers, and the level of resolution, dynamic impact, sense of focus, and overall musicality it produces is breathtaking!

As you can see, I'm a big fan of Rega turntables :-)
In the end, there is no right or wrong, just MUSIC BABY!

Happy listening!
If you have to add a custom-made 50 pound sand box to make a turntable sound good, then the turntable has significant shortcomings. We don't purchase a pair of speakers with cabinet resonance issues and the add our own lumber to quiet the cabinet. Why is this any different?

Rega "cheaps out" on the design and claims "low mass, hi rigidity is superior" .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap. All the while, those customers seem to be a happy as a lark.

Those Rega marketing guys have a pretty good thing going on for themselves! : )
Wow Abrew19!!!

Your ignorance baffles me. You are really missing the point here.

It is a fact that ANY turntable, no matter how light or heavy, would greatly benefit from some type of isolation devise.

The basic laws of physics tell us that the vibration's energy is never destroyed, it can only change form.

MANY products (like my $22.00 sandbox) create an effective environment of high absorption around the component to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.

All vinyl lovers are acutely aware of the fact that (ideally) the unseen vibrations of that tiny diamond stylus should be the ONLY source of what is heard from the loudspeakers.

Even the airborne unseen vibrations produced by the loudspeakers can and do affect every component in a music system, the major effect being on the analog's turntable setup.

If you are not aware of the great importance you simply never came close to hearing how good your vinyl recordings could or can sound.

Hundreds of pages have been written and published regarding prevention of the problem with turntables.

Rega's philosophy is very simple, mass absorbs energy, loss energy equals loss music. Roy Gandy believes that his rigid plinth design prevents energy absorption and unwanted resonance, which will add unnatural distortions to the music.

Roy also believes that heavier mass can transfer more unwanted energy, such as motor or bearing noise, directly into the rotating record so he addresses the issue of mass absorption and unwanted energy transmission with his light plinth approach.

It's not perfect. There's no such thing. But each turntable designer tries hard to get closer to perfection taking into consideration a large number of conflicting engineering parameters.

To state that there is a problem with my set up because I NEED the 50 pounds sandbox to make it "sing" is simply absurd!

I decided to get a great Gingko Cloud 11. These things sound freaking awesome. I've heard them in a few places on different tables and WOW for the cost. I have heard all kinds of devices, however so many ruin the sound. I think that it depends on the table and it's suspension as to what device to use. So far I've heard Gingko on the Linn, Rega and a 60k plus Basis and on all of these different types of suspension it made a positive difference. This is why you need a good dealer who knows what works best.

As for adding an isolation device, what's wrong with adding one when it helps? They work with any turntable. That's just like using a good rack or your electronics using proper legs.

BTW, may of us have used special devices on our speakers to change the sound a bit. Personally I don't with speakers anymore, but for a TT or transport or any tube gear (been a tube guy for a long time before going with Ayre). It's not a big deal to most.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with adding mass or isolation as aftermarket enhancements. I'm all for it. I'm just saying that Rega saves a lot of manufacturing cost with their designs. with the mid-priced RP3/RP6/RP8 especially, I'm not convinced they pass the savings along to the customer. They are well-engineered and fine sounding products, but the plinth is a piece of high tech cardboard with a coat of of flashy paint. At 3 Grand, compare the RP8 to the VPI Classic. There is no comparison when you break it down to the component and sub-component level. But like I said before, nice Rega have very nice tonearms however.
I wonder if Rega knows that most use their own isolation devices and that's why they do this. Heck, if I can find a 1k rig with everything and make it sound as good as a 2k rig by adding a 350 device, that's still a big bargain to me. I have now heard the Rega 300 series arm on a ton of tables and the arm really is a bargain. It allows you to possibly get into a top table and then let you upgrade the arm later if you need to. I will say that from my ears, the table means much more than the arm and possibly cartridge. I know many manufactures feel the same and I can see why. I was able to hear two different tables with a top of the line arm and then with the Rega arm (same cartridge). The sound wasn't THAT far off and the cost differences were at least 1k and I think one arm was probably 3k or so. It's just all dependent on so many variables.
Up for debate Abrew19,

There is a SIGNIFICANT comparison when you break it down to the component and sub-component level.

Both TTs engineered completely different but with the same attention to details based on common principles:

One, a 50 pounds "Behemoth" of a table that comes standard with the stainless steel version of the JMW-10.5i unipivot tonearm in rigid mount mode, a solid plinth, a solid fixed mounted AC 600 RPM synchronous motor, new Mini HR-X isolation feet, and the Classic Aluminum Platter. All in all, an outstanding product capable of outperforming tables costing twice as much.

The other, a revolutionary design: custom made skeletal plinth, new ultra-stable RB808 tonearm with state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect, 24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply, new double bracing technology for stifness where it matter the most, between the tonearm mounting and the main hub bearing, forming a structurally sound "stressed beam" assembly.

In the end, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste. Some people (including me) prefer the RP8 over the Classic, especially because of the richness and musicality of the Rega compared to the "revealing" nature of the VPI deck. Please note that "revealing" does not mean harsh or over the edge. It just sound more analytical to my ears, nothing more, nothing less.

Happy listening.

Great post Kiko. You really broke it down the way many of us see it.
I owned Rega Planar 3 and 25 tables, and while decent, they in no way compare to the sound I now get with my $300 used Technics 1200 mkII and vintage Stanton 881s cartridge. This combo beats them all and I have also owned VPI Traveler (version 1) and Music Hall MM7 tables as well.
Steve, that's the neat thing about audio. To your ears and in your system you love the Technics/Stanton. I used to use that set up many years ago and changed to a Rotel/Van den Hul MM1 that I'm currently selling. I liked the Rotel much better for many reasons, but that's for me and my systems that I've used it in. I'm updating to a Basis w/basis Rega 301/Micro Benz Glider and it's a far step up the ladder (demo cost was awesome).

It's like anything else in audio, but especially vinyl. Set up is KEY. The room and equipment make differences, but cables in vinyl are a HUGE thing also. I heard the Traveler recently in a system that is very revealing (Maggie 3.7 and Hegel 300 integrated) and it made the Maggies sound ok. I don't like the Maggie sound and for me to be able to listen for even a few songs was amazing to me. I just hear the Music Hall 11.1 yesterday, which is a HUGE step up in price, lol...It sounded much better than the Project tables or the Regas I've heard recently. Not sure how the MM7 sounds in comparison.
this is why there are so many models in all price ranges.
Music Hall mmf 5.1 with a sumiko blue point #2 cart and a project tube box s.

You can pick all this up from needle doctor or music direct, but either way it sounds wonderful.
Sounds like a nice rig. Personally, I've learned that getting through a local dealer is supporting the local shops, plus I"ve always had problems in shipping audio. My brother just opened 4 boxes of Paradigms he bought and had shipped. The first tower was crushed and the whole side of the speaker was crushed.It will sound OK, but not perfect adn it looks terrible. No resale value either. The store said it was too late and not their fault. Screw them for any referral business in the future. The other tower had a finger dent in it's tweeter. That came that way from the store and not shipping. No way, no how it was shipping....again, oh well. Also, they shipped speakers that weren't serial number matches. I always demand speakers who's numbers are next to each other. Just my deal I guess.

Glad you had no problems and that it's working well. Yes, those of us who listen, feel strongly that vinyl is the best way to go when you want to really relax and enjoy the music. Enjoy and relax.
My Modded REGA P3/24 sits on a Mapleshade ISO system and it is so quiet now its thrilling!! I totally agree that with the mods and Isolation this table is a giant slayer!
I think that when I heard the Rega 6, that it wasn't isolated properly. It was just thread bare in the mids. Sterile almost is how it sounded. I heard it vs the totally tricked out Linn 12 and the Linn just had more pace and rhythm. It wasn't even close. I know the cost diff was huge, but the Rega just didn't sound right, but years ago I loved the Rega. I regret not getting the P3 around 1998 or so. I got the Rotel 855 with VDH MM1 (great cartridge I'm selling off with this table). It's a nice rig and set up properly is awesome. That said it wasn't a Rega.

So many variables with analog playback and I think some sell it, but don't set it up properly.
To Kiko65:
"..custom made skeletal plinth, new ultra-stable RB808 tonearm with state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect, 24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply, new double bracing technology for stifness where it matter the most, between the tonearm mounting and the main hub bearing, forming a structurally sound "stressed beam" assembly."

None of this stuff costs much to make for any factory with decent volumes of production. "state of the art bearing assembly, triple-layer glass platter for fly wheel effect" ... dude do you write their ad copy, or what? It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here.

"24-volt low-noise, low-vibration motor controlled by a hand-tuned electronic external power supply" .... seriously? Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?

As for their "custom made skeletal plinth" don't get me started.
Really Abrew19?

Still trashing Rega TTs without any SUBSTANTIAL evidence/comments/observations. Very professional of you I may say.

What kind of TT do you own? How long have you been in this hobby? How many different set ups have you EVER owned? Have you ever done a head to head comparison between the Classic and the RP8........or any other decks? Heck, have you ever auditioned an RP8........or even a Classic? Doubt it very much. Do us all a favor and stop pretending you know what you're talking about Abrew.

I believe you have "selective hearing". I praised the Classic. You want to know why? Because I auditioned one. I took the time to stop by my local dealer and I had an extensive listening session in order to be able to make a consensus decision based on taste, not looks. Not only that, I used to own A Scout! Just not my cup of tea. Again, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of taste.

Instead of "pretending" that you know what you're talking about let's do this. Start writing about WHY you don't like the Rega SOUND and not about WHY YOU THINK Rega products look cheap. Anyone can make that assumption based on looks.

Let's hear your comments based on personal experience and NOT on bias information about your perception on cheap construction. Do us all a favor and talk like a someone who knows what he is saying!
The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is due tomorrow, for the price it's performance is very good. There is better out there, but you gotta pay to play.
Well, my day has finally arrived. Tomorrow John from Audio Connections will be delivering my Vandy Treo's along with my Heed Quasar Phono stage and my Basis 1400, Basis/Rega 300/Micro Benz Glider. It's a demo and he was very fair. In the end, this set up is about as good as I could find for the money. For me, this is the perfect set up and I'll now sell off my lightly used Rotel 855/Van den Hul MM1 cartridge (any takers? ).

I'll let you all know how it sounds after it all breaks in. I'll upgrade to the new belt soon I'm sure. Just need to get a VPI 16.5 cleaner now.
"Well, my day has finally arrived. Tomorrow John from Audio Connections will be delivering my Vandy Treo's along with my Heed Quasar Phono stage and my Basis 1400, Basis/Rega 300/Micro Benz Glider"

Great setup, when you can swing it upgrade from the Rega to a Basis Vector arm. That will be a very significant improvement.

Sounds like you have a great system going and John is a great guy to work with.
You know the Rega wasn't my cup of tea when I've heard it, but it was a very very good table and much better than anything near it's price. It didn't stand up to a 5k plus Linn or a 8k plus Ayre table. I liked it better than the VPI's I heard (VPI's were at least twice the price). I think it's a very solid performer and not a Bose type of product. Can't go wrong with a Rega and upgraded cart.