Thiel speakers... one more try

As you guys may already know (since I post here every other week), I'm shopping for speakers. I currently own a pair of Dynaudio Audience 120, which are too small to give me the bass and upper-bass response I need for my favorite music style, progressive electronic music, very loud I must add.

After going to alot of shops here in Sao Paulo, Brazil, I found a store which had the PSB GOLDi and the Thiel 2.2 (with crossovers upgrade worth $2000 from Thiel) for sale, at basically the same price range. The thing is that the Thiel has been discontinued in 1997 and the PSB GOLDi he has is brand new, still in the cartons, latest model.

After going there three times, I decided the Thiel suits me better. But I tested the PSB in a very very BIG room, very tall, with a nice Harman Kardon receiver in stereo mode and Burmeister CD player. The Thiel was tested with a hefty Threshold amplifier, but with a poor Technics pre-amp and a lousy Marantz DVD player. Considering both had disadvantages, I considered that the Thiel was better off due to the generous amplifier and the good acoustics of the room, which was almost perfect (the guy has two stores, one for new equipment, and the other for used ware)

What I liked about the Thiel was that it had a very defined and confident upper-bass and midrange, and while the PSB had a very tasty low-bass, the upper-bass was not tight at all, and something was clearly missing there.

I'm gonna use either of these babies with a Mccormack DNA 0.5, Mccormack TLC-1 and Adcom GCD-750. I already tested the Thiel with the Mccormack and it was very good.

Considering most say the PSB would be easier to drive. Considering it had so many disadvantagens in my auditions, like acoustics and electronics. Considering I fell to the Thiel. Considering that the PSB is $2200 new in the US, and a used Thiel runs for $1200 in Ebay. Considering that I would never be able to sell the Thiel for a similar price in Brazil and that the PSB is much more sought after.

With all of these, what should I do, give the PSB a go, because of the newer technology and better market value; or take a chance with the Thiel, which could satisfy me for years more, or become a burden.

Opinions please?

Thanks in advance
Ask the dealer to put the two speakers in the same room with the same equipment-specify wich room, as close to your own as possible- this will help level the playing field. Next, you must decide what your ultimate goal is, if it is resale, that must weigh in on your decision. If musical satisfaction is your goal your buying priorities may change. Auditioning with similar equipment is the only way to ensure an accurate representation of each speaker. Also, try to get equipment similar to your own. Every dealer I have dealt with has been willing to demo the way you prefer as long as you let them know in advance. Ask your dealer if you can demo them in your home, keep the ones you like and return the others. All it takes is a credit casd.
What I would do is either buy the new PSB or a stock pair of Thiel 2.2s for a much lower price. Then, if you felt the stock Thiels were lacking, you could always have the crossovers upgraded with premium-quality parts and I doubt that it would cost nearly $2000 to do it. A $2000 crossover upgrade for that speaker to me, makes no sense...
IMO, there is no point in buying a speaker you don't prefer (PSB) just because they have higher resale value.
Plato, the main problem is that I just won't find another Thiel 2.2 here, or no other Thiel at all, for that matter.

I'll probably try auditioning both under the same conditions, as Banksfriend suggested.

Jazzdude, I've changed speakers twice in the last six months, I probably should keep resale value in mind.

Thank you all for the suggestions.
Close your eyes and trust your ears
Jmabe, I've heard very good things about that particular Thiel model so I'd probably buy the 2.2s. If you liked them in the showroom you'll probably like them more at home.
They're a good brand and model and will always have resale value. And chances are good that if you hit a speaker you really like you won't have the urge to change them every six months... Then you'll be changing your associated gear instead. :)
I have Thiel's, love them, and recommend them under certain circumstances. I am not sure I would recommend them to you, though. I simply don't think electronically generated music sounds very good on them. Although they are capable of delivering clean sound and speed, they are far too revealing. You might be drawn to all the new sounds you never heard before on your CDs, but you might end up finding the whole performance somewhat flat. The bass extention may not be low enough for the music you like. I understand your options are limited, but you may want to take another longer listen.

Thank you for the support.

Rtn1, Thiel to me sounded pretty good with electronic music. Just as good as I wanted, and quite more than I ever expected.

Plato, good to know the Thiels have a good reputation, I was really confident on that matter.

I decided to contact the dealer and ask him to setup both for me to listen under the same conditions. But the resale value is still buggin' me.
If the Thiel's sound better to you, then I would pick them up. As mentioned above, trust your ears and don't worry about resale. From a potential buyer's remorse perspective, would you rather have that niggling sensation in the back of your mind that you should have picked up the PSBs when (and if) you decide to trade up or sell your speakers, or do you want to have that niggling sensation that you should have picked up the Thiels every time you listen to your PSBs?

Also, Thiel has tremendous customer support, even for used/discontinued models that may be out of warranty. So long as the speaker has not been abused, they may very well take care of any problems you might have.

Good luck, and trust your ears!

Judging by the equipment used in your auditions, I really dont think that either speaker had a fair chance to sound its best. Also, if the PSB's as you said were brand new, they were not close to optimal as they really do require a good hundred hours to break in as well as an amp that has decent current drive. That being said, I drive my Gold i's with aMcCormack DNA 225 and have always found this to be a very good match. I think it would be very good combo for the type of music you mentioned. Good luck with your decision.
What about impedance??????????
The thiels go pretty low. Can the McCormack handle 2 or 3 ohms? You should take your amp to the auditions!
Just the other day, I listened to a Robert Rich CD on my Thiel 2.4's. Robert Rich is "space" music (e.g., the TAS Hearts of Space CD from some years back). It sounded incredible! Time and phase coherence resolves the, er, space in an extraordinary fashion and let me immerse myself in the soundscape. No other speakers I have owned have come close.
I had a pair of Thiel 2.2's matched with a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe and TLC-1. It's an excellent combination, very dynamic and exciting. The McCormack drove the Thiels effortlessly at any volume I was comfortable with in a large living room.
Buying a speaker you don't care for because it has higher resale is like marrying a woman you don't love because she'll be easier to get over when you divorce. It defeats to whole purpose of the endeavor to enjoy music or a relationship and sets you up for dissapointment. If you can't make a decision with confidence then don't make it till you can.
The McCormack amp should be up to powering the Thiels. My only concern is the some what forward nature of the McCormack preceeding the some what forward nature of the Thiels. On the other hand the McCormack is taut enough in the bass and suave enough in the treble to deal with those issues.
Hey guys, I went to the store one more time, and now I have tested both speakers under the same conditions, with the same electronics.

I was terribly impressed with the PSB at first, it gave me all I wanted in terms of presence and bass, plus I listened to more laid back music as well and it was incredible. When I switched to the Thiels, I realized these speakers sound somewhat bright, and just couldn't handle the bass I want, compared to the bigger and badder PSB.

PSB is my choice, thanks alot to all who helped, really!
Thiel Magic.
Thiel load-speakers do so many things right. It was the first speaker to disappear without closing your eyes. The holographic thing can only be achieved by proper setup, associated equipment, and acoustic materials. Most of this information can be found on their website on the review sections and on the Asylum. The rewards are worth it. My thiel’s are mated with pass labs x series electronics, HT cables. Jon Risch DIY room panels and bass traps.

Some difference between the thiel 2 2, 2.3, and 2.4. the 2 2 lacked some bass response through the passive radiator. The 2.3 and 2.4 all drivers are manufactured at thiel and sound more cohesive at both ends of the spectrum.

For any speakers to be around in our hobby as long says wonders about this speaker.

The thiel magic can only be had through time and dedication…
I’m still grinning from ear to ear.
Hola Brasieliero,

I have spent much time in your wonderful country and was surprised to see that you could even find a pair of Thiels.

I just wanted to let you know that you have made a good decision. I struggled with a pair of 2.4 for entirely too long. I had a good amp and had to continue to change cables, etc. to try to get rid of the harsh, fatigueing sound. They were just too bright and analytical. I had sooo many CD's that I could not listen to. They sounded to harsh.

I finally sold them and got a pair of Proac 2.5. I am so much happier now and have never looked back.

So -- enjoy you PSB's and don't ever think about the Thiels again. Believe me they would have driven you crazy. Use them for wood in a good Churascaria.


I swapped my ProAc 2.5's for Thiel 2.4's. Just goes to show.
I do believe that the 2.4's are a bit lacking in the lower registers, and that they don't have a lot of weight to their sound (which is why I chose CS3.6's). From what I have read, the 2.2's have a more severe lack of low end, which is why I would suggest pairing them with a sub. Of course, to get a good quality, musical subwoofer would add even more to the purchase price, so the PSB's may be the way to go if they were able to make you smile after direct comparison to the Thiels.


Louis, good to know you've enjoyed your stay in Brazil, Sao Paulo is a very big city, it has most of the things other big towns do.

The Thiels are properly being directed to the churrascaria. You know, I was surprised when comparing the Thiel to the PSB, the first were so bright after enjoying PSB's richer and warmer sound. I just don't know how I could enjoy the Thiels more the first time, maybe because there were different setups in each.