Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
jafant
internal wire is definitely a factor. It carries a slightly different set of requirements from external cable, which must cope with many unknowns of run length, electromagnetic environment, speaker impedance fluctuation, and more. The internal wire is engineerable to the known requirements of the speaker where it is installed.

I agree.  For most cases, the internal wirings are much shorter than the external speaker cables, therefore I think it is less likely to modify the signal phase and amplitude vs. the external cables.  Some of the expensive speaker cables nowaday I have seen have rather sophisticated geometry and dielectric core material and grounding that together act like a transmission line to deliver the signal as uniformly as possible across all frequencies.  Some people think that audio frequencies are too low to be affected by transmission line but I do not think so.  Some lesser cables may have resonance issues and the effect is exacerbated as the length increased. 

Some believe that the only difference between cables is the resistance.  I think it's more than that.  You also have the effect of inductance and capacitance - the longer the cable the worse the effect.  A perfect cable should deliver the signal from the amp to the speaker input with a constant phase and constant amplitude losses across all frequencies, but since there is no perfect cable (or is there?) by the time the signal arrives at the speaker inputs, the phase and amplitude will be affected differently vs. frequencies.  This affect materializes itself as a form of jitter (although there is more than just jitter)  A good cable has better phase and amplitude uniformity compared to a bad cable.  Some speaker cables are engineered to intentionally have a transmission line affect so the signal phase and amplitude can be better controlled by the designer.  With twisted pair, the number of variables  is somewhat limited by the wire gauge size and number of winding per in. therefore it may not be able to optimize signal transmission. 

In some speakers, the xover boards are located at the bottom so the wire to the tweeter could be as long as 3ft.  At that length, there could a transmission line like effect that may modify the signal phase and amplitude non-uniformly vs. frequencies therefore the quality of the cable is more important.  But I have personally seen that something as short as 1.5ft length could make significant difference with quality cables.

Anyway, I don't mean to make this into a cable thread (I don't want prof to loose his sleep :-).
andy2
Thank You for sharing your perspectives and thoughts on internal wiring as it pertains to loudspeaker building. Cabling, industrial internal or OEM, is imperative to an excellent sounding system. This is my second passion, music being the first. Any cable discussion is warranted and welcomed.  Happy Listening!
tomthiel
I concur with sgmlaw. This is outstanding information. Thank You, for the continued history lessons and unique insight into the vaults of Thiel Audio. Hope you are well today and enjoying working in your Hot Rod garage.

Happy Listening!
beetlemania
Thank You for your diligent hard work on the XO project. Good to read that Mr. Rob Gillum is of service to you as you guys figure out a working prototype. Do you have a Hot Rod garage like Tom?

Happy Listening!
@jafant not a garage like Tom’s who has 2.2, PP, 3.6 with 1.6 on the way. I only have my SEs, which are no longer SEs. I am giving Tom subjective impressions of a couple of caps and bypasses among other XO possibilities. Already did the Mills resistor subjective comparison. I’ll just say that the improvement put a smile on my face.