I missed most of this posting until now, but reading al of it I must say it is good to hear some of the comments that confirm some of my feelings about Thiel speakers....namely the older models. One comment was from a member that owns both the CS6 and 3.6 - he preferred the 3.6. There are a lot of favorable mentions of the 2 2. I myself own multiple models and use in 5.1 and 2 channel systems. I have a couple smartsubs, four PCS, three MCS and four 2 2. Some of these are extra (Back-up) because I never want to be without Thiel in my system and after Jim's passing, in my mind the legacy ended. My point is, that even though the 2 2 has given way to newer models, I can't seem to let myself part with them. They sound so good that it is not worth selling since they are WAY undervalued in the used market. I have no room for this stuff! How do people part with something like that and not have regret?
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obigny, Just noticed there is a set of 3.5 on eBay for $495.00 OBO. Right in your neck of the woods. Possible spare parts? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thiel-CS-3-5-Coherent-Loudspeakers-with-Bass-Equalizer-Priced-to-Sell-/151971553058?hash=item236235df22:g:SuUAAOSwpzdWsTzv
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Jafant,
I like you comment :
"Another attribute- very clean. Some will confuse this aspect w/ forward and/or bright. I suppose that if fed the wrong source or component the presentation could be bright. At any rate, this could be tamed w/ a tubed pre-amp or amp. My fave combo is a tubed pre-amp and solid state power amp. Most important of all, carefully selecting cables/power cords."
I have been experimenting with cables and getting some decent results, but difficult to try without purchase. My question is about tubes. I am operating a surround system with Thiels and the only tube prepro I saw was cj that doesn't do decoding. I was thinking of possibly Cary Cinema, but wanted to know if anyone had other suggestions? What are your thoughts on 5 channel. I still currently get good two channel with my set up and would like to stay multiple channeled. |
How about CS7 and CS7.2? I would say full range... |
Dan,
You are not a rarity in using Thiel as surround sound. I see a lot of power points for sale and always wondered with Atmos - what it would be like to have Thiel in that lineup. I have 5.1 and use 4 PCS with MCS as center along with SmartSub.
My big news is I scored a set of 2.7's last Saturday and they are wonderful! I'm still tuning, but I'm very encouraged by the sound. Each refinement in the Thiel lineup was an improvement and I never thought I would be able to afford these. Happy as can be!
Prior to this purchase I noticed some glare in certain vocals and still see it. I'm trying to track down the issue. I did change some cables a few months ago, but I think they may have just brought this glare to the forefront. (Analysis plus solo interconnects) I see more transparency with these and think it was there before, just cables brought it to forefront.
Anyone have ideas? I have spares of some equipment and will change some things out to see if I can track it down.
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jafant, you hit the nail on the head...Silver coated copper speaker cables. I switched back to Kimber 8tc and much better in the glare aspect. It does seem as though I lost some presence though. I never experimented much with cables and started a few months ago. Too many changes as same time....
Does anyone have experience with Analysis Plus oval 8? I'm thinking of going with heavier cables than the 8tc - possibly 12tc. Any recommendation is a |
Michael,
I just checked out your main system - sweet!
I'm using cj MF-5600 and since I added 2.7's I'm thinking I need more power. I had a NHT Power5 in the system and recently removed it in a search to remove some glare I was hearing. (The cj was collecting dust and I was going to send in for a check up) What are your thoughts on a 5 channel amp? Pre/Pro is NHT Controller and I was thinking of changing out both units. I like a smoother sound and there is nothing out there tubed for processor.
Funny how you make a change in system and then want to change everything!
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UNSOUND - I have always been curious about these power ratings. Are they taking into account impedance at the higher rating? For instance with the CS 6 is the higher rating due to lower impedance swing? |
Just going over the power requirements again....
I have CS 2.7 and from ratings below if I looked for an amp putting out 400 watts into 8
Ω, it would double down to 800 at nominal 4
Ω and 1333 watts at the 2.4
Ω minimum?
CS 2.7 Specs:
Impedance 4 Ω (2.4 Ω minimum@160Hz) Recommended Power 100-400 watts
My amp really seems puny now...200 at 8 and 350 at 4! |
I have 2.2 model and now the 2.7. I can't bear to part with the 2.2's.
I completely understand what oblgny sees in his 30 year old speakers. It is the same thing I see (hear) in the 2.2 version and why I will not let them go.
The refinements over the years for each model line has been beneficial in the smoothness and musicality of the speaker, however the "old" sound was just as good - even better- in different ways. There - I've said it - you guys can hang me out to dry if you want and I spent quite a bit more on the new model. I like it just as much, but not more.
i listen to the 2.7's and sometime want to listen to the 2.2's. I'll put the old models up against competition's new models any day of the week. |
jafant,
I actually have these in 5.1 systems for both stereo and movies. I use a cj MF5600 in one and an NHT Power5 (B&O Icepower) in the other. Before anyone reading this scoffs at the NHT, they should listen - or read about it on the web.
obligny - I thought some might say I was bonkers for liking my 2 2 just as much as the 2.7. There are differences, but liked equally by myself. The older Thiels are best buys found on the web...! I fully understand your love of the 3.5. |
jafant, Reading the stereophile review of CS2.4 they listed :
Preamplifiers: Ayre K-5xe, Conrad-Johnson ACT2, Viola Labs Cadenza. Power Amplifiers: Ayre V-5xe, Coda S5, Fisher 500-B, Cayin SA 50T, Moscode 401HR, Viola Labs Symphony. That might be a good place to start, but if wanting to stay with integrated instead of seperates, I noticed at shows, Bryston was used with Thiel at a lot of their displays. |
I think the reason for active is to couple drivers directly to the amplifier and get rid of crossover components. Also a passive radiator shares same compartment with the woofer and is coupled together by the air pressure, so I don't think two active woofers of different designs would work. The SS3 amp is designed specifically for bass reproduction with specific Thiele/Small parameters in mind and proprietary to the drivers.
Though nut to crack, but good luck! |
dlcockrum (Dave),
Very impressive system! It's good to see someone who has gone through various changes and get their input. I struggle with what direction to go and it's always good to see another's experience and final conclusion. (Never really finished is it?)
I see there is a pair of the DR-9 amps for sale on another site for 2K, so this seems like an amp worth investigating... |
Guys - just got an email from Rob Gillum in reply to an inquiry. Repair for coax in MCS1 is $250.00. I certainly don't feel this is a bad price.
Shipping boxes/packaging for my CS2.7's however is $160.00.....Each!
I figured I would get packaging in case they no longer supported, but I'm re-thinking now. I purchased second hand and no packaging was supplied in the deal. |
unsound -
Very good discussion about the lower frequencies. There are proven, valid points there. I have two Smartsubs and even though there is wonderful adjustment for these, placement is still critical. Too close together and summed ouput was difficult at best. Experimentation with placement smoothed them out very nicely. We are actually tuning the room when doing this after all. |
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unsound,
Clicked on your link and all I can say is WOW! Imagine the culmination of all Dan D'Agostino's work. Although I will never have the disposable income to purchase such a beauty - fully appreciated. Come to think of it, I probably will not even have an opportunity to demo. |
I have always been curious about Dunlavy and Duntech. Similar in sound to Thiel? |
Jafant,
I have the cj MF5600 and some Kimber I'm not using. It's 5 channel but you can use only two if you are interested. No extra preamp though unless pre-pro. I don't see where I can message you solely....
Keep it for a year if you want. |
This is a great deal - There will be no more made! Chances will now be few to own Jim's crowning achievement. I have the 2.7 since I could not pass up the deal I got on them and I already had the Smartsub.
The 3.7 is still world class in my view and you would need to spend multiple times the cost to better them - IF you consider something else to be better. |
The 3.7 does not lack bass. It is very difficult to achieve the bottom octave with medium sized cabinet designs, especially when using 1st order crossover networks. (Woofer must be expected to perform equally well several octaves above the crossover point.) Typically designers have used much larger cabinets or electronic equalization, but that becomes taxing on the amplifier. I was impressed with the bass output of the 2.7 and I'm sure if you audition the 3.7 you will not be disappointed in the bass output.
I must add also that I agree with unsound as far as room size. Treatment for room interactions can make a huge difference in the mid and upper octaves. Bass, deep bass, would then be the limiting factor due to wavelength and the 3.7 doesn't quite get there. |
pops
Is sounds as though you still have the 3.6 even after you purchased your 6. I myself, have been unable to let go of my former Thiel products even after upgrading. (After all, there aren't going to be any more!) I wonder how many others can't let go...?
Are you opening the proverbial Pandora's box for a discussion of the NEW Thiel line? |
thieliste - I drove about six hours each way when I picked up my 2.7's.
Well worth it in my view, but everyone thought I was crazy.
Anyone have tales to tell on lengths they were willing to go to get theirs?
I think someone mentioned a shipping nightmare in this thread somewhere.... |
Hi, guys - just wanted to note that differences in closed box, ported and passive radiator design are mostly back pressure on the woofer and compliance of the air inside the box. As the woofer vibrates to create sound from electrical charge of voice coil it has the compliance of air inside the box resisting it. A ported box has less resistance, so sort of flops around and hard to control. A passive radiator design is not so "loose" since you have the suspension of the passive radiator adding to compliance of air and should be more articulate than the ported design. The closed box is best for control however...
I think someone mentioned earlier that they didn't understand why Jim Thiel used the passive set up instead of closed box (With the exception of his subwoofers) and it seems to me he was trying to minimize the size of the cabinet and achieve a deep, well defined bass for the size.
Sorry if I am reiterating something everyone here already knows.... |
Tough to tell from those photos, but seem good condition and price. I could really use another MCS1, but do not purchase from Craigslist. If you are thinking of purchasing the package, i would be interested in the MCS1 after checking photos... :) |
: )
Having a "good ear day",
Dave Matthews...Wow, so damn good!
Why is it some days everything sounds so sweet and detailed? |
In 1986 I'm afraid I could only afford a receiver and no separates. I do remember at that time I had a set of Phase Research speakers (Phil Clements) that I was smitten with....I had not heard Thiel yet since no dealers nearby.
There were Audio Stores everywhere - ! My best buddy Ron was also an audio fan and we made many, many trips out of state just to listen to brands not in our area. Come to think of it, he was with me the first time I heard Thiel. He was not as smitten with them as I was and ended up with B&W. Dahlquist was on my short list until I heard Thiel.
Good memories..... |
Doing house work today - started off with Coldplay in background and wanted to hear some horns so switched over to Chicago. Now I stopped house work!
Wondering what you guys listen to? I am a big Dave Matthews fan myself although I have been listening to Eva Cassidy a lot lately. |
First heard Thiel in the very early 90's. Maybe 1992 or even 91. I didn't purchase my used CS2 2 until 10 years later. (Going through a divorce and raising two children does funny things to you wallet.)
Never forgot them though, so when opportunity struck...I later bought a back-up pair since I worried about replacement parts.
I doubt if I will ever replace what I have now - Thiel legacy series is where my journey ends speaker-wise. Guess I will play with the electronics! |
saffron
Just gorgeous! Need a roommate? |
michaeljbrown,
Have you thought about the Thiel PCS? Identical drivers as used in the MCS and less obtrusive. I used four along with MCS and Smartsub prior to my current system and sounded great.
I never really liked the in wall premise for surround sound - too much depends on placement for good sound and no options with in wall. |
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oblgny
Are you sure you want to sell that quickly? Have you listened extensively to the 3.6?
It's just that some like the 3.5 over the 3.6...
Wow - lot of changes this year in your system. Kudos to you for being so decisive! |
I have a set of 2.7's and reading your thread, made me want to experiment with tubes. I have only tried ss amplification.
I too, have a less than ideal room size and have stayed with Thiel's 2 series instead of 3 series because of this. |
prof,
Will you still be using your cj premier amps? |
oblgny
That is a coincidence...My previous surround system had all Alon speakers. Very nice sounding. Smooth and open....but not Thiels as you said.I still have all of them and need to sell eventually. I have the Lotus Elite fronts (Saloon door looking) with LCR Grand center and Alon Petite rears. They were very enjoyable. |
prof - Don't sell!
They don't make them anymore and it will be rare to find again. You will surely regret the sale and try to find another pair. THERE AREN'T ANY MORE.
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oblgny
We will wait in anticipation for your first impressions! I myself have not had the opportunity to hear he 3.6 and was always wondering of comparison to other Thiels since rated so highly by Stereophile mag. All different drivers and no eq, so not same as you have been listening to.
Maybe best of all - No break in period! Immediate enjoyment after positioning... : ) |
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I think prof meant that cables are not THE most important piece and I would have to agree. My thoughts are speakers...
I would rather listen to Thiel with a receiver and lamp cord than a horrible speaker with a good cable and a receiver. |
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Congratulations on your new addition! Larger room is always better and I'm sure you will see that after the move. I hope you still have the tube amp and try it after your move, but Ayre makes excellent products. |
The 3.7 went for $4,750.00. The listing was for local pick up only in Georgia. |
As a 2.7 owner, I don't think you will be missing much as compared to the 3.7. I never heard the 3.7, but I find the bass satisfying.
Actually, when I auditioned them I was very surprised by the bass, much better than I expected.
(Although I do use a smartsub, to be honest you would never know it was there.)
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Prof
Happy Day! Glad to see you are enjoying your delivery.
Glad you found the bass satisfactory and noted differences between the two.
Just curious though - how is the tilt as compared to the 3.7? |
The angle makes quite a difference in my experience.... |
Prof,
Very interesting evaluation. My thoughts on the 2.7 as compared to previous models was that is was "smoother and more lush" as you say about the 3.7 in comparison.
This is good stuff....I am appreciating your evaluation as are all reading this. (Who has this opportunity in their home!)
I still think, that it would be beneficial to compare the tilt of the 3.7 and try to match the same on your 2.7. it may give you a different impression, but maybe not - as I recall you were nearfield in you listening position. |
Good to see you Dave. I think I will seek amplifier advisement from both you and unsound the next time I get hit with the itch to change. |
Seem to have a sound approach about amplifiers and I'm pretty sure you both have one or two. |
