Thiel Owners

jafant...

I believe I have the Veracity speaker cables from Goertz which I ordered directly from them over the phone.  Again,  I start at the beginning and go up the food chains from there.

I had bananas on both ends which were a nice tight fit on the 3.5's - some of the other brands I've used tended to fall out of the connects on the speakers which I find is more a design flaw in their placement than it is the cables fault.  (Remember,  the speaker connects are on the bottom of the cabinets and one has to go through that small tunnel to make the connection.)
I know later models up the line have the speaker connects on the back of the cabinet which IMHO is a far better placement.

The Veracity line is about as wide as a piece of standard masking tape and as thin as anything I've thus far used.  They require a little more effort in running them so as not to bend them drastically,  other than that it's as simple as any other.

As Thiel owners know in advance,  Thiels reveal.  EVERYTHING in the chain.  The Goertz let everything through favoring the mids and highs,  but the highs were never harsh.  In fact, the upper end sonics is what I find most appealing about Thiel in general.  Writing this,  I am tempted to return the Goertz cables just to see if what I thought holds water after switching them out.  

The only thing I've heard, and through my guys at Audio Den,  is that some people have suffered damaging their speakers due to current overload?  Or something?  I'll re-ask the question to them later this week when I'm in the store - they've expanded their LP "department" so I've been going there more often.  The only cables I have not switched over to Transparent are the cables on my Marantz T-15 turnable which are hardwired into the unit.
As I've said before my vinyl sounds fantastic on my current setup.  I may switch out the Primare R32 phono preamp with a MF unit, one of those small phono preamps that I've had laying around forever,  just to see if it's the Primare's impact.  While my CD and server components sound good,  the vinyl trumps them indeed.  Just...better.

Jafant...

Music Wave on the speakers, Link on the connects.  Cheap seats to start!

I've been following the new Thiel store on eBay for sh*ts and giggles and their most current offerings indicate the smarmy direction the new ownership has taken. 

The description on the new model is utterly void of any technical information, offering only bad marketing copy that resonates best in mass market publications or cheesey websites.  

*Sigh*

Can we get together a crowd-funded takeover attempt and preserve the legacy?  All Thiel owners MUST crank it up this weekend!

The bug strikes again, opportunity knocks?

There's a very nice looking pair of CS2.4's up for sale here by a good retail shop for $1995.  It's within striking distance of my home. Well, 70 miles or so...

Quiry:. Do I move up from my CS3.5's or...?

The seller of the 2.4's I'm thinking about is going to allow an audition which I will probably be able to schedule this Friday. This will be the very first time I've been able to hear a Thiel before I buy!

The 3.5's are extremely difficult to best - I love 'em.  Then there's this Coda amp on here...

Quite easy, Jafant

"Cyril Davies" - Ginger Baker, off of "Why?

S'all I need for any speaker. 

Jafant...
I'd say 30-45 minutes overall. I believe the cabling was Cardas.  I brought along my Astell & Kern AK100 portable player simply because it sounds excellent. 
Being so familiar and impressed by Thiel in general simply didn't warrant the expenditure at this point in time. There is no need for me to replace my 3.5's just because an opportunity to "move up" was geographically desirable. They are so damn good I'll require a true "wow" moment to pry them away from me. 

I've learned from past audio experience that I'm more curious than sensible sometimes, a trait that has me regretting letting go of my Pass X150.5 amp for...I forget what!  Aaaargh!  

I will however continue to explore more Thiel as opportunity and disposable income make possible; I'm hooked. For now my 3.5's will carry on. Extraordinarily difficult speakers to beat. 

I was tortured by NY/NJ traffic to get to the place where the speakers were, but that's typical. 

Physically speaking they were as expected for their age with no deal-killer imperfections to be concerned about. We listened through an amp with a similar power rating to my current one, 300 watts per channel.  

The biggest difference I found was in the mids and highs which were different, not necessarily better nor inferior to my 3.5's.  No mistaking they were Thiel; if my 3.5's were ailing or unrepairable I would have scoffed them up immediately. I could not justify replacing my 3.5's for what I can at best describe as a nuanced or subtle improvement. The bass was equally good, albeit not as deep as my 3.5's - that would not have factored in whatsoever given the aforementioned scenario. They were beautiful sonically. 

I cannot help but feel a little bummed by the fact that Thiel is no longer what it was as I write this. Knowing there is a "guy" with his name on the equipment is a reassuring aspect of owning good stuff. Thiel is great stuff

Jafant
I've owned 2 pairs of 3.5's actually and have had these for about 1.5 years. I purchased these from a fellow member for a whopping $350 believe it or not.  My first pair were $800 and I drove to Massachusetts to pick them up. My nephew has those to this day. 

I never used the Thiels with my First Watt M2 amp but that's what drove me to the X150.5. The Coda amp I mentioned earlier is actually an integrated capable of 600 watts into 4 ohms. Decisions decisions...

Jafant...
I visited the Coda site earlier this morning and from what I was able to decipher was that they have dealers only.  No mention of a retailer.  

I've yet to see a Coda in any of the NY retail shops I visit so...

I may very well be buying that integrated listed here simply because of the Pass/Threshold history.  I bought my First Watt from Reno without auditioning and almost immediately jumped up to the X150.5, again without auditioning.  The most intriguing aspect about a Pass integrated is the money saved as opposed to buying a pre and an amp. Pass prices have really gone up since I had mine.  Dammit!

Michaeljbrown...

I can heartily recommend Pass Labs X150.5 or up. I've seen a few in your price range and to my ears were the best amps for my CS3.5's. 
The X150.5 is 150 watts X 2 into 8ohms, 300 into 4ohms. I had an ARC LSB2 for the preamp. 

Also, I can recommend looking into a Pass via Reno Hifi here. I have no affiliation or mercenary connection to Reno but my two quick transactions with Mark were exemplary.  I purchased a First Watt M2 from him and almost immediately stepped up to the 150.5.  Full credit for the M2 towards the 150.5. Pass ain't cheap at any level so knowing you're dealing with a class act is reassuring. 

Have fun in your quest.  Thiels reveal!

Jafant...

My current pair of 3.5's did not have the spikes included so I simply used some isolation blocks to raise them to the appropriate height having them would have provided. The pair I gifted to my nephew did have them so I could measure. 

I've never seen a pair of this model with outriggers anywhere so I have to think they were not designed for use?  A common issue when buying this model now is with the spikes sometimes as they tend to bust the plinth where they screw in, no doubt from attempting to reposition 'em without lifting them. They're relatively heavy so that's understandable. 

This pair did not experience that problem so if I come across a set of spikes somewhere I'll buy them. Not a real issue at all for me. 

Imagine getting these for $350 like I did - from a fellow member no less.  Easily my best ever purchase. 

Unsound...

Wow - you actually had an opportunity to speak with Jim Thiel?  I'm envious as hell. 

No other component I've had gives me more pleasure than these 3.5's. For me they've proven to be my reference point for quality loudspeakers overall.  They just get it right. 

I wish I had gotten into hifi again while he was still around. It would have been nice to meet him and thank him.  As some members here may know I've been in the wine business my entire life and I know many great winemakers personally here and abroad.  It would have been nice to shake the hand of Mr. Thiel indeed.  

I'm actually proud that I own a pair of his speakers. They are art in every respect. 

I'm using a Primare A34.2 class d amp which is rated at 150 into 8ohms and "almost double that" into 4ohms - that directly from Primare when I reached out to them inquiring about it. 
(Their owner's manual is spartan to say the least.)  Virtually every amp I've used in the last few years put out 300 watts into 4 ohm loads. 

My listening level is fairly conservative to say the least so I've never stressed the amp nor the Thiels throughout, but I do stress the high current importance in making them perform. The Primare and my BAT pre are breaking in nicely - there is a noticeable difference in sonics after about an hour - for the better.  When both are warmed up the same volume setting just blooms - everything simply has more presence and space. 

Unsound...I rep some pretty good burgs - where do you reside?  I might be able to steer you to some values.  But message me aside - this is forum is for Thiel!

jonandfamily...

My 3.5's are about 30 years old and still perform as I imagine they did way back when. I suppose one could check the crossover components out to verify all is in order, but I am personally VERY hesitant about letting anyone attempt a repair or "upgrade" for a couple of reasons. 

1.) I believe the design holds true to Jim Thiel's intent and seriously doubt that any alteration to them could or would improve anything. Makes me nervous thinking about the day that something could falter. I bought Thiel's because he designed them, and I should leave well enough alone.

2.) I'd sooner change another component over the speakers.  They've sounded wonderful with everything I've put through them. For now at least it appears that Thiel is still willing to make repairs on their legacy products such as our's, but for how long who knows?  

robin...

Hang you out to dry?  Over what, pray tell?

When and if timing and finances permit I may eventually move up from my 3.5's to another Thiel, but it's been proven that these are extraordinarily difficult to beat at any price. I've had Magnepan 1.7's, .7's and Von Schweikert VR4's pass through my hands all the while returning to the Thiels. I've been interested in the 3.6's out of curiousity but none have been geographically desirable enough as yet. 

I fancy myself a relatively rational sort, so this is not a case of my drinking the proverbial Kool-aid nor the rants of a Thiel zealot. Enjoy the music!

Have a safe and fun Labor Day weekend folks!

Jafant...

Based on my personal experience with Pass and CJ amps in a separates mode I have to say that I found the CJ to be "warmer" for lack of a better impression, while the Pass struck me as absolutely colorless - in a positive way. Some say Pass is too analytical, but with Thiels which also strike me as utterly colorless the match was quite good. Both amps had sufficient current to meet the demands of my 3.5's. 

To my ears the CJ also emphasized the low end to a noticeable extent, again not a negative impression, simply in comparison to the Pass. 

I've stopped monkeying around with my system now, realizing that I've gotten silly swapping out amps/preamps over the last couple of years. Thanks, Audiogon!

The only thing I will change will be returning to a Pass amp if and when the opportunity arises. My Primare A34.2 is a very good amp indeed but for me Pass is the one for my 3.5's. 

You have some tough decisions to ponder, albeit enjoyable ones. Have at it!

Nkonor...

Wow - I've never blown a driver in any of the speakers I've ever owned. Below there's a post clarifying that legacy models can be repaired by Thiel.  The pair of 3.5's I gave to my nephew a while back had a midrange repaired by them, cost around $400 all inclusive. (Shipping etc.)

Were you listening at a loud level?  Too much power/not enough?  I drive mine with an amp capable of 300 watts into their 4ohm load although I've never driven them that hard. 

Woohoo - I just purchased from a fellow member here a GAS Son Of Ampzilla which will be swapped in and out with my Primare A34.2 just for kicks.  GAS is one of those manufacturers I've been curious about for a long time, along with Moscode, Plinius, Crown, Belles, and Coda. 

The GAS is rated at 160 watts into 4 ohms which is ample enough for my 3.5's - especially since my listening level is conservative.  

The pre remains a BAT VK3i which I think is excellent as well. 

Should be fun...

Folks...
Regarding "sidetracking" Jafant's intended subject matter - no problemo!  All the new posts pertaining to the possible improvements to be had are always welcome and championed. 

I've learned a lot reading the opinions and suggestions here, Keep 'em coming.  

Wow - some very informative posts here regarding cables and the CS5's power handling specs. Thanks to all. 

The Son of Ampzilla arrived via UPS too late last night so I couldn't hook it up. According to the seller and fellow member here it was serviced in 2014 and stored since. Typically, it arrived in as-described condition with ample packaging.  Gawd, I do like the people on this site. 

Anyway, my workload today is appreciably lighter than usual except for an appointment with my accountant to file my 2015 returns. No, I am not going to reveal them unless it's sufficient enough to fund a pair of CS5's!  

The GAS will be hooked up tonight. My cabling is all Transparent throughout, my Preamp remains the BAT VK3i. (pictures in the Virtual Systems section here if anyone cares to peruse)

The reason for buying the GAS?  Boredom. I find the Primare A34.2 to be well suited with my CS3.5's, but the GAS was under $400 shipped so...time for 'sperimentin'!

Crank it up folks, Thiels reveal!

Jafant...

I'll be sticking with the BAT preamp. Like my CS3.5's it seems to have found an un-rotatable place in my system.  Mind. Heart. 

So far as the Primare A34.2 amplifier goes, I've not found a reason yet to replace it right now. (Indeed I want to return to a Pass Labs but even used pricing has soared recently so...) The Primare is 150 watts into 8ohms and - according to a direct response via email from them - "almost double that" into 4ohms. I believe I paid $3k for it under a year ago which, given its modest power consumption and exemplary build quality is a very fair investment IMHO. Comparatively speaking it leans toward a warmer sonic presentation than my Pass X150.5 did, but that's pretty much true of anything compared to the Pass. (Including my CJ MF200 which I still have and use once in a while for kicks.). Pass, like Thiel, reveals - these speakers are an excellent litmus test for any amp/preamp. 

I believe once you go above my model,  Primare goes to A/B manufacture, and a helluva lot more power to boot.  I also use a Primare A32 phono preamp in my system which has made my vinyl sonics immensely improved.  Wow. I've mentioned that before and it's true. 

On Friday I hooked up my "vintage" Pioneer SX1080 receiver (120 watts into 8 ohms, no info out there as to its 4ohm rating) to my CS3.5's and...damn if it didn't still sound great. Different?  Yes, but impressive how good it sounded being 36 years old. And man does it still look good. 

Basically, I'm willing to try any class of amp. I've had a First Watt M2 class A which led me to the Pass X150.5 class A/B,  etc., etc., and so forth. I read here and rarely elsewhere about such things and then go about a real world listen. I bought my CS3.5's blind - based upon things I've read here and elsewhere - no audition, no friend had a pair...  Curiousity and occasionally viable funds have allowed me to do this. 

Besides, it's a helluva lot easier to swap out components than it is to move these damn things around. Sheesh!

Dave....
If Jim Thiel was still around today I'd trademark the term "Thiels Reveal" and give it to him for nuttin'.  I coined that phrase after selling off a pair of Maggie MMG's - which at the time I was utterly pleased with - until I got the 3.5's, that is. I continue to like and even be impressed with Magnepan having within a year gone through their 1.7 and most recently their .7 and liking them but...they're just too imposing and far too finicky regarding placement.  

Wow, I thought, the beautiful mids and highs of the Maggies but with more cowbell. (Bass.).  The 3.5's delivered bass with that "bounce" that I look for. Not that colored emphasis one gets from smaller speakers or even similar/larger ones, just bass that sounds "instrumental" to me -to coin another phrase. (Or am I co-opting it?). I guess what I mean is texture,  an acoustic bass has pluck and tension, an electric bass has presence.  My 3.5's make me appreciate music, not just reproduction of it. 

Wow.  Quite a glowing appraisal.  

So far as the Pioneer SX1080 goes with the Thiels, it is entirely possible for me to be happy with it and the 3.5's should, heaven forbid, anything untoward occur to my basket of remarkables in waiting.

Funny that you mentioned how good Zep sounded through your piece -I think the Pioneer recognizes the signal and just goes bananas for it.  

I should mention that  all my cables remain Transparent cables, although I had to "mod" a spare pair to fit those dinky little pressure connects on the 1080's back. Actually, I bought the spare pair to do so. My first-ever "mod" of any equipment!

Thanks folks, keep adding to this forum. Always an informative read. 

A lot of the pre-owned Thiels one sees here and on eBay share the "dimpled driver" syndrome as do many other makes.  The pair I purchased a year or so ago from a fellow member and the sole owner did not suffer from the malady - and they're perhaps thirty years old.

The advice of getting in contact with Thiel for a rebuild - if necessary - is well given.  A previous pair of my 3.5's suffered a midrange tear in the surround that I found necessary to send off to them.  I believe the total with shipping back an forth was around $400.  That may strike many as a somewhat pricey repair,  but it is actually a minor investment in a product that is worthy of it;  the quality and sonics of this brand compare very well to competitive brands way up the food chain.  

Fix 'em if you have to but keep 'em!

Stop me now!!!

A pair of CS7's on here for $2190???  Even with shipping cost additional from Florida...?  Anyone here have any spare common sense for me???  Woe is me...

I really have to stop coming here...my wallet is fast becoming as thin as a leaf.

The analogy of putting a $5000 transmission into a 28 year old Volkswagen is accurately made,  especially when considering the current market value of the model.  From what I see on this interweb thing CS3.5's are selling for under $1,000,  well under that in fact - with most suffering from dimpled driver syndrome and/or esthetically challenged cabinetry.  Does one spend an amount of money almost equal to the cost of a used pair on a single driver?  My high regard for this model warrants that even though it may not be fiscally sensible.  Then again,  my fiscal sensibilities have not ever applied to stereo equipment.  It's a weakness.  Gawd,  I love stereo equipment!

My original pair of 3.5's cost me $800 and I spent the $400 for one midrange to be rebuilt by Thiel.  (Thanks, unsound,  for your previous direction regarding that.)  That included shipping and everything.  My expenditure was made with the mindset that they were worth keeping for the long haul even though I gifted them to my nephew not long after that.  Sometime later I purchased another pair of 3.5's here from a fellow member,  original owner,  for a true pittance.  Lucky me,  indeed.   Were a driver require a rebuild by Thiel,  I would definitely justify the cost now.

Anyway...seeing this listed pair of 3.7's has my fiscally irresponsible sensibilities in a veritable tizzy.

Ah,  never mind - the seller just replied it's a local pickup only.  Anyone in Florida?  Scarf 'em up!

catalysis...

Your points were spot-on regarding how the 3.5's sonics improve when the amplification is warmed up a while.  I've mated my solid state amp to a tubed pre-amp and I usually,  but not always wait about 15 minutes before playing anything.  The sonics are noticeably better after about an hour as well. 

It's funny how my appreciation for the 3.5's,  "older models",  has made me something of a zealot.  I arrived late in the game to Thiel speakers,  after Jim passed away,  and only through Audiogon discovered them.

I also find it most curious about how people find them "too bright" at times,  an opinion I previously reserved for a pair of Klipsch CF-3's purchased in 1994 when I moved into my house here.  Two ten-inch woofers and a horn loaded tweeter that used to grate on my ears like nails on a chalkboard.  Ouch.  I cannibalized the drivers and sold them off, then reconfigured the cabinets to hold most of my cd collection.

Since then,  discovering Audiogon along the way,  I've had a LOT of speakers.  Among those that I have liked are Magnepan,  Totem,  Von Schweikert,  Meadowlark...

The two that keep me curious are Thiel and Magnepan.  The one that I've kept is Thiel.

The aforementioned brands and a few others that I've had were all good in their own right,  but the two that actually stopped me in my tracks have been Maggie and Thiel.  Thiel has proven to be the winner in the last comparison,  and if I may quote myself from another post,  "Thiels are Maggies with bass."

unsound's knowledge of the brand is second to none and his posts here have been immensely helpful to me.  I will one day move up the food chain but it won't be at the expense of my 3.5's.

Not using the eq does affect the imaging, methinks. 

My living/listening room has a ceiling that slopes from 9' to 17' feet at its apex with sidewalls on the left about 4 feet, and about 14 feet from the right speaker,  plus a hardwood floor. Oy vey -  a pretty difficult room to get a grip on for any speaker. 

In the virtual systems section here I've posted a few photos of my setup.  The speakers are positioned about 8 feet apart. I listen from about 10 feet away.   They are positioned 8 inches from the rear wall. (I have a stick with markings on it, a "mod" I created in mind after shuffling my Maggies, Von Schweikerts, Totem Hawks, Dahlquist DQ-10's around. Got tired of looking for the measuring tape.)

To wit, my experiments with the eq of the 3.5's in and out and/or with the 40hz setting have borne out leaving it in place is the best FMHE. 
(for my humble ears)  I also noticed that the imaging had suffered when it was entirely removed. Jim knew more about this stuff than I do, so I'm adhering to his philosophy and architectural theories, leaving it in the chain. 

One of of the reasons I so enjoy these lies in not having to bother with a sub. More wires, more power, more space.... As I've mentioned in earlier posts my listening level is conservative. I have never pushed these to "concert" levels, and I never will.  Just toss in Ginger Baker's "Cyril Davis" off of the album "Why?" at a modest level and see why these speakers can still impress, if not astound. 

Jafant...
"Cyril Davis" from the album "Why?" is indeed my reference tune when I'm weighing comparisons - that tune with my Pass X150.5 a while back was pretty much stunning.  

There's a similarly named cut on another one of his albums entitled "Cyril Davies",  arranged slightly differently but they're essentially the same composition.  Either version works for me. 

I own Baker's Air Force recordings on vinyl, all of his latter and latest efforts on CD. I started revisiting his stuff after seeing the documentary "Beware Of Mr. Baker" about a year ago or so on some cable channel.  It's quite an unflattering portrait of a very strange individual.  Such a nasty man.  

What surprises me all the more is how brief his time was with Cream and Blind Faith, yet that will certainly be the headline on and the bulk of material  contained in his obituary.  There's some pretty good stuff to be had during his post-rock days. "Why?" is quite good all the way through.  

I'll say it once last time - I am a total idiot for letting go of the Pass. 
I. Am. A. Total. Idiot. For. Letting. Go. Of. My. Pass. Labs. X150.5. 

I promise not to say that again. Let it serve as a testimonial to others whom might be considering a "better" amp for their Thiels.  

Jafant...

My X-150.5 is enroute from Nevada. Should arrive by this time next week. 

Last night I heard my CS3.5's chanting for it, first a whisper, then a scream by this afternoon. 

Couldn't take it any longer. 

I might very well be DONE this time. I'm going to be more serious henceforth about what I THINK I'm missing with my system. 

I'll post a revised set of photos in my virtual systems section upon its arrival.  I'll be selling my Primare A34.2 class D amp to offset this re-purchase. 

Thiels Reveal!

Well, it finally arrived this afternoon from Nevada...

My Primare A34.2 is back in the box, up for grabs here on the site. 

Damn, I forgot how heavy the Pass X150.5 was. Is. 

What I didn't forget was how great my Thiels sounded with it in the past. It's back, and it's staying.  I'm done. It's playing now. I'm a happy camper. 

Well...kinda done. I just bought a Khozmo passive preamp for a pittance here on the site just because...well...

I think the Pass is as uncolored an amplifier that a body could hope for, I think that my 3.5's are also as uncolored a speaker that one could wish for, so why not toss a passive pre into the chain and see what is...revealed?  (No, I'm not giving up my B. A. T. preamp.) My system is now complete, with the only exception possible being the availability of 3.6's or higher in a geographically/financially desirable future. 

I would like to offer up another dilemna facing me. The Pass and the BAT have XLR connects that I would like to use, but this takes the Thiel EQ out of the chain since it has RCA connects. 
I could purchase XLR adapters, but that pretty much defeats the intent altogether. 

Suggestions? 

Just a thought on Thiel in general...

Obviously Jim Thiel did not work within a vacuum all those years.  I have to assume that he assembled a fine team of craftsmen to assist in bringing his theories to fruition. 

My question is, where did they all go when the new regime arrived and chose to abandon all that he worked for?  I know a small part of the story already gained from articles on the web, so I guess my question here is does anyone have any further information?

By the way, this thread is one of the most informative and enjoyable ones I've come across here.  The comments and suggestions I've received from many of the posts have made vast improvements in my system to date. Intelligent, rational discourse is as enjoyable to me as is listening to music. 

Great thread, folks. 

Donzi...

Jafant here is a vocal proponent of finding the correct cabling for our equipment. Until I began membership here I had a snake pit collection of various brands that I gave little thought to overall. 

It's difficult for me to acknowledge that I've been a member here for only three years - and I mean that in a good way. Since joining this community my system has improved far beyond what it once was.

When I snared my first pair of 3.5's I was using what I would now term Radio Shack 12 gauge wire from a spool, and yet the Thiels literally "wowed" me upon first listen. One of the first "high end" speaker cables I purchased were entry level Anti-Cables from Mr. Speltz. I still have two pairs of different lengths due to changes in my audio stands, both Salamander. 

Currently I have Transparent cabling throughout my system.  I'd never before compared brands with across-the-board application since it's rather costly to do so, but it seems to be the only method of fairly reaching an opinion. 

Today, as a result of your post I am going to reacquaint myself with my Anti-Cables speaker connects. From what I recall upon my first experience they made an articulate loudspeaker become even more so. And that's saying a LOT when it comes to my Thiels. 

Jafant...

My first Pass design amplifier was a First Watt M2 which up until then struck me as one of the most colorless amps I'd owned.  Rated at 40 watts per channel into my 4ohm Thiels I assumed having more power, the headroom at least, was a wiser route to head in, especially since I've not let up on searching for a pair of 3.6's or above.  There's a pair of 7's listed here for $2200 - but the seller cannot ship!

Within two or three weeks I returned the M2 for a full credit toward the X150.5 which was then $2300, methinks.  The one I just got was $2700 with a 1 year warranty and the seller covered the shipping.  I've mentioned before how idiotic it was of me to sell off my first, and that won't happen again.  I find Thiel and Pass to be extraordinarily well suited for one another. 

The M2 introduced me to Mr. Pass's approach to amplification architecture, and I have to add that I find his candor, philosophy, and attitude very refreshing. I've also found that I like buying products from a guy with his name on the box. My appreciation for Thiel at first was the product only, but as I grew more familiar with his story I appreciate these speakers all the more. As I've mentioned before they've absolutely become my reference point for loudspeakers. 

Anyway, I believe I had an ARC LS2b preamp at that time along with a cheap Pro-Ject phono preamp. (I like ARC, too.). The difference between the M2 and the X150.5?  Sonically speaking I could not discern a difference; all that clean, uncolored, presence was on equal terms for me. Were I to downsize - heaven forbid - I would not hesitate to buy another First Watt amp. 

I've been eyeballing a Pass X.01 pre just listed here for $1800, but I can't entirely justify it because a.) I don't really need it and b.) I really like my B. A. T. preamp. And c.) the holidays are here and my girlfriend might kill me if I buy another piece of equipment. 

Just for the absolute hell of it I just bought a Khozmo passive preamp and have been listening to it for a couple of days now. I had a passive back in '14 and I should'a kept that. Anyway, thinking how articulate my Thiels and Pass combine to be, I figgered why not toss a passive in the mix?  The results?

Wow - with some caveats I'm still wrapping my ears around, but my thinking was well rewarded. Everything's a little "brighter" altogether, but the separation and clarity are what I was hoping for. Heck, $300 for a little s'perimenting is a bargain in this hobby ain't it?

Good reads folks, keep 'em coming. 

Jafant...

I see the listing is from a fellow member with 100% positive feedback here,  AND he bought the piece from Mark @ Reno where I've bought my 3 units. Very good retailer. 

It it seems like a fair price overall but you would be the 3rd owner without the benefit of any warranty.  Mark covered the shipping on my second X150.5 in recognition of my return business. (Or my idiocy for selling off my first. He laughed when I related my story.)

The listing you saw would incur another $75 in PayPal fees plus shipping and insurance which would add approximately that much, bringing it to at least $2650?  This thing is HEAVY, thank god for those handles on the rear. 

Why don't you drop Mark a line and get on his "waiting list" for one?  I've read your post wishing for your system to come together by 2017...

For the record,  I'll be turning 60 in another month give or take, so while I'm not compiling a bucket list I do think I've more or less hit upon a system that I can't do a helluva lot more with in terms of my definition of "excellence."  I consider myself rather fortunate to have discovered Thiel, and subsequently Pass, and having the resources to explore them both. I'm pretty much done for all intents and purposes methinks. Save for cabling and perhaps preamp explorations, I can't see how much more expenditures could return improvements to a great extent. 

..."and you know that you're over the hill when your mind makes a promise that your body can't fill..."  Little Feat - "Old Folks Boogie"

Listen up Thiel reveals!

unsound...

The khozmo passive has two outs and three inputs.  I'm working on that tomorrow morning.  With the BAT I'll simply stick to the unbalanced connects in order to keep the eq in.

unsound...

You've been more than a great source of information regarding my,  and other members Thiels here.  In fact you were the first to make me aware of the continuing service on their legacy products which helped me rebuild one of my midrange drivers on my first pair of 3.5's.  You also explained why 3.5's can be driven with a lighter weight tube amp due to the speakers more consistent load presented to the amp...

Tomorrow morning I'll be s'perimenting with the tape aspect suggested with my BAT in order to gain the full benefit of using XLR connects between that and the Pass,  as a result keeping the Thiel eq in the chain.  I will also attempt the same with the Khozmo passive,  albeit with unbalanced connects.  

Thanks, guys.

jafant and all...

Thanks to all the veterans here and elsewhere who served us all.

- son of a true "Hell's Angel",  303rd Bomb Group,  359th Squadron,  WWII

unsound...

I've stumbled across a few ads for the Thiel eq's over the last year or so but didn't bite only because,  well,  I have one already.  (Obviously not thinking that I needed another,  and as obviously not thinking to have a back up just in case...)  Suffice it to add that I am now on the hunt in order to undertake the s'periment that you outlined below regarding having them modded into monos with XLR connections.  Intrigued as hell,  I am indeed.  This will occur if and when I am able to locate another,  a relaxed "to-do" line item for me.

They go for around $100 from what I recall.  That's a cheap investment.  I do not have any reference point to guesstimate the final cost of doing so,  but if I can have the work performed on both for around $500 methinks that's a meager expenditure considering how much I enjoy these 3.5's.  My local audio store here in Lake Grove NY referred me to a tech that they use when I bought a used Conrad Johnson MF200 amp a little while back.

Wow!  I forgot that I put that in for service before the summer!  I have to go get it!  

Anyway,  a few posts below I mentioned that I purchased a Khozmo passive preamp from a fellow member here just for the absolute hell of it.  A couple of years ago I s'perimented with a Reference Line Audio Preeminence One B Series II passive preamp with a different amp and speakers and...I actually forget what I thought of it at the moment.

The Khozmo has two outputs and three inputs with no markings whatsoever.  No manual,  either.  It's actually a well constructed piece of gear.  I hooked it up with the Thiel eq in line.

I've decided that the most accurate description of my Thiel CS3.5's is "articulate".  What I imagined would happen by slotting the Khozmo in for the moment happened.  (Pass Labs X150.5,  Khozmo,  Thiel CS3.5's.)

There definitely is a more pronounced etching of the highs which the Thiels already excel in providing,  and I must confess that I favor speakers that offer such to begin with.  The "etching" I described above is  not meant to infer that I sense a harshness in those frequencies.  Perhaps the most accurate description I can relate of the Khozmo's impact is its absolute lack of adding anything of color whatsoever.  As I've said before I find Thiels to be "colorless" unforgivingly revealing loudspeakers, as well the same for the Pass Labs X150.5 amplifier.  This was a fun little s'periment.  I'll be keeping this little preamp along with the BAT VK3i.

Sometime this coming week I'll rotate the BAT back into place using the tape monitor inputs allowing me to use the balanced connects between it and the Pass.  I already tested that option before tossing the Khozmo in and it worked fine.  

Like I said,  once I locate another Thiel eq I will undertake your suggestion to have the mods performed.  Should be VERY cool,  indeed.

I forget whom the fellow member here is that prefaces his ads with the phrase,  "Get ready for hi-fi fun!", but since joining this community and more specifically this thread,  I have indeed been having hi-fi fun.

Thanks,  folks.

unsound...

Roger that.  I just bought a Thiel eq off of eBay for $108 shipped.  Lucky me.  

Per your suggestion I will contact Pass and explain the path I'd like to take.  I'll also give a shout out to Thiel as well. 

Wow, "modded" 3.5's.  I'm pinching myself. 

But a final word on that.  I've mentioned before  that I leave the eq in, largely because I figure that Mr. Thiel knew more about his design than I ever will. Secondly,  by removing it I found the spatial characteristics became diminished.  I did this blindfolded with assistance from my girlfriend on four separate occasions. It stays in. 

Thanks again. 

robinbarbour...

Thanks for the link - just got one yesterday.  

Nuttin' yet...

The eq I bought in haste off of eBay is the wrong one.  I'm watching the other one linked here now. 

<---is an idiot.  Aaaargh. 

C'est la vie. 

PS:  this Khozmo passive pre with the PL X150.5 does have some serious merits. I keep mentioning "articulate" when I espouse Thiel and/or Pass in general, and after having the Khozmo in line all week that aspect of both is affirmed.  I switched my cables to anti-cable level ones all around which haven't quite asserted themselves yet. 

The Pass sounds noticeably better with at least 30 minutes of warm-in,  and I've yet to make the meter wiggle but a hair, so I'm in class A all the time methinks. 

Articulate. Linear. Clean. At modest to moderate levels everything is simply there. 

It has taken me a long time to get to this spot and I am truly pleased as all hell.  Once I find out if the Thiel eq modification will be do-able per unsound's suggestion, I'll consider myself done. 

Well, except for cabling of course. 

Enjoy the upcoming holiday weekend!

dlcockrum...

I'll turn 60 before the end of this year so the prospect of switching out 60-75 pound amplifiers or even heavier speakers on the timetable I have been using has gotta stop!

unsound's suggestion regarding mono-modding the eq's for my 3.5's is a much physically easier upgrade path for me - as are jafant's cabling posts.  
 
My choice of amplifiers IS done. Speakers?  I most definitely would consider moving up to CS 3.6's if any become available. I would have bought a pair of CS7's listed here for $1750 but the gent wouldn't ship them. Anyone in Florida reading?  The listing ended but...hoping he'll re-list. If yer down there scarf them up!

unsound...

Yes, I rushed in and bought the eq thinking it was the 3.5 eq - my error.  I'm going to keep it anyway. 

I've been too caught up in business this week to contact Thiel. (I'm in the wine/spirits biz and the next six weeks are NUTS). I will do so tomorrow in the morning. 

I've read as much on the 3.6 m's as I have on my 3.5's and my curiousity regarding the 3.6's will bear fruit only by becoming geographically desirable. (I started out with 2's). Heck, I drove to Massachusetts to pick up my first pair of 3.5's.  Finding a pair of 3.6 wouldn't make me trade off nor sell my 3.5's, either. Hell, no. 

jafant often mention's a system's synergy in describing his experiences, and for myself, for now and the foreseeable future, Pass and Thiel are the best I've had. Cables and perhaps preamps may still find changes depending upon circumstances, but Thiel and Pass are my reference points.  They're locked. 

Jafant...

Back to you.  We know you're seeking to finalize your system around the Thiels "by 2017" but I don't think you've mentioned your current associated gear - and what is being replaced. I know you're considering Pass for amplification, but what else? 

Are you using a sub/considering one?  

Damn fine anchors these Thiels make, aye?

Hahhahhahhah!

Thanks to all in this most genteel and informative of threads - best to all this forthcoming holiday weekend!

Amazingly good stuff being bandied about here without descending into vitriol. Bravo!

If I'm not mistaken I do believe that Coda is manufactured from/by a few ex-pats from Pass Labs?

They seem roughly the same in price,  and from what I've read on this inter-web thing quite similar in performance/sonics.


As Artie Johnson once uttered,  "Veddy interestink."

Jafant...

I've had 2 Audio Research preamps in the past, an LS2b hybrid and an LS 3 solid state. I'm pretty much as big a fan of their preamps as I am of Pass Labs/First Watt Amps which, as you know, I've been heaping praise upon all over this thread. 

Pass SS mated with ARC hybrid/tubed preamps are very well suited for one another. 
IMHO Audio Research preamps are more "eager" than my B. A. T. is, although both are equally excellent.  I may be buying another ARC listed here simply because...well,  we all know THAT reason. 

Also, I've seen a lot of nice ARC preamps here at very reasonable prices from 100% positive members. Like Thiel, preowned ARC's can be a relative bargain considering their quality. 

I'm going to wager that your search will end up with at least ONE of my personal faves and I will do an Irish jig when that happens. 

Takers, anyone?

Jafant...

Take your time, invest your time, it's your money and they're your ears.  I've bought quite a few items from Stereo Exchange in NYC without a hitch, it being one of the VERY few stores you can still just walk right into without an appointment.  Alan C.,  and owner David are just nice peeps to do business with.  The gear I purchased, 2 pairs of Totem loudspeakers, 2 McIntosh amps etc. were all in stock.  (That's just the new stuff I bought there, I've bought used as well.)

Of course, building your reference system around Thiel commands the patience you're demonstrating.  I'd probably have bought and sold a good many things already. 

Oh yeah, just for the record, I haven't bought anything this week.