I've heard the Andra; I've heard a fair number of top end Thiels, but not the CS 6. However, this may help a bit: Stereophilereview of Eggleston AndraStereophilereview of Thiel CS-6Looking at the measured frequency response curves, it appears to me that both have a significant power response issue, with precipitous frequency amplitude drops in the midrange at a crossover point--the Andra in the 2-3KHz region and the CS-6 smack at 1KHz. Personally I have no patience with such anomalies in power response. The price you pay is incessant fiddling with speaker position, listening position, platforming, and room treatments to get the "cupped hands" sensation to go away. Also note that the CS-6 review mentions that you have to sit at least 10 feet from the speakers to get complete driver integration. Between the two, the Andra has the much better damped (i.e., quieter) cabinet. |
Having owned the Andra I (and II) i can say that they are very easy to place in a room with a very smooth tweeter and a very convincing reproduction of acoustic piano. the measured response curve does not correlate with any reviewer's having to move the speakers around from place to place. the Eggleston crossovers were tuned by A.Von Schweikert who has a good reputation among folks that have auditioned his speakers over the years. I have never heard the newer Thiels however, and they always got better with each new generation (if one were to believe the reviews anyway). but in my experience the Andra's were plug and play in my very-average living room (carpets, couches, coffee tables).
transparent wire really got them singing (for a price...) |
I should have qualified my remarks better. In spite of my concerns about the Andra's measured power response, when I heard them I was *very* impressed with their very coherent, natural presentation. It's a subjective matter, but I like the Andra's tonal balance over the Thiels I've heard. |
i can compare Thiel 3.6 which i had in my main system for 10 years to Andra II's which are my reference speaker now, have never heard the 6's unfortunately.
The midrange and tweeter of the Andra is no comparison, the eggy's have that liquid presentation and smooth extension the Thiels can't quite muster. What shocked me the most was the transparency. Thiels disappear as well as any speakers but the Andra's leave the room. All that's left is music! That was the first thing I noticed when I hooked them up.
The Andra's have that big sound of a full range speaker, the 3.6's sound just slightly thin in the lower midrange and mid-bass. Do not know if that is a Thiel house sound or not, I suspect it is but can't be certain since I have not heard the upper models. Hope that helps and gives you some frame of reference. |
Hi Johnny,
I own both speakers now and I can honestly say that they both have great strengths. The Thiel CS6 is what I am presently using at this time. And being someone who has worked in the Music Industry, and has been in recording studios for over 40 years with Composers/ songwriters and arrangers like Ray Ellis, Marc Ellis, Jim Helms,Chris Houston,Peter Anders, Chris Mancini/Hanks son &Jan Berry just to name a few.
The Andra's are much more forgiving on bad recordings.
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Stereophile's measurement of the Eggleston looks like a classic case of a tweeter that is wired out of phase from the correct orientation. The very deep and symmetrical suck out is the result you get when a crossover designed to match the tweeter and mid phase at the crossover point is wired out of phase.
I'm guessing, but from the layout of the baffle and the shape of the dip at the crossover point, this was meant to be a Linkwitz-Reilly 4th order crossover between mid and tweeter, and a tech simply connect the tweeter backward. |
L2L: Thanks for pointing this out. Whenever I encounter it, I get up on my soapbox and ask, why do designers spend untold amounts of money bringing to market very expensive and heavy speakers that, by design, intentionally destroy musical content by phase shifting out microdynamics and timbre through such an approach?
This is why Thiel and Vandersteen will, for me, always be the speakers of choice. They simply get it. |
Hi Steve, I agree with you 100%. |
After living with the Thiel CS6's. I sold the Eggleston Andra speakers.
Speakers that I've previously owned:
Vandersteen 3A SIGNATURE
Aerial 10T
Eggleston Andra l |
Alan, I am with you. I have CS6's which replaced Andra II, remarkable speakers. I am also a longtime Thiel 3.6er and will never sell them.
The Eggy's are great speakers in their own right but the Thiel sound is just too hard to top once dialed in. Cheers! |
@ pops, interesting post. |
This thread is fascinating on what it says about differences in taste (yes, prejudices too) among audiophiles. I can't think of a better speaker comparison than between these two (I am familiar with both). Thiels are all about detail and image sharpness; the original EgglestonWorks Andras are all about naturalness, including the very rare fact of a huge soundstage from what was a small speaker, with height reproduction that goes up to your room's ceiling (and also trying to get a bit too much bass from a small enclosure volume, to be fair). The truth is that you choose the poison you worry less about. One thing I can say is that the naturalness of the original Andras made me hate the artificiality of B&W speakers forever, or the low soundstage of Vandersteen 5s and 7s. I listened to Andra IIs for a short while and I immediately knew the magic had been lost, just like in all Spendor speakers that came after the BC1 despite the improvements. |
Hi Pops,
Yep Thiel CS6's setup correct are fab.
Again why did Jim Thiel still use these even when the 3.7
came out. |
These were Jim's favorite speakers, they had and continue to have amazing dynamics, inner detail and bass extension well into the 20s, provided, however, that they are driven properly. |
Hi Steve, it's been a while since we spoke. A woofer went out in one of the Thiel's and I learned that they have to be removed from the bottom. Thiel wants $500.00 plus shipping to rebuild it. I wanted to ask you for any input regarding this. Also I saw that you sold yours. What did you replace them with?
Hope all is well. Alan |
In the end I have not sold my CS6s and they are now back in my system singing wonderfully. I did upgrade my Manley Snappers to NeoClassic 250s in order to work with the CS6s. For the price it seems reasonable, that is one hell of a well made woofer. Have you looked at it? |
Hi Steve, Nice choice on the Manley upgrade. How does it sound? Regarding the woofer I tested it with a dc 1.5 volt battery and it needs to be repaired. I'm sending it back to Thiel to have it rebuilt. They're waiting for the parts. I spoke to Grant at Thiel who is helping me. I have to tell you that the dealer I purchased them from in Chicago, who's a Thiel Dealer told me. They have to be removed from the bottom. NOT TRUE. Grant talked to Rob Gillum who's been there for over twenty years and laughed. They come out the way I thought they would from the front. Rob said he was the one who assembled them and to use a 9/64 allen wrench to remove them. Hope all is well. Alan |
Steve, I forgot to tell you that I purchased a one year old Pass labs 350.5 Amplifier. It should be here on the 4th.
Kent at Pass Labs convinced me. He told me that I will be amazed at the difference in performance with my setup.
Alan |
Hi Alan2, sorry about your woofer. Though it does sound like a DIY project and you can avoid shipping it! A simple desolder and solder in the new driver, I have done it before, not on Thiel, but another speaker.
Curious, why not just put in a new one, what is being rebuilt?
Steve, glad you hung on to your CS6, it is an all time great speaker. I have had mine for a year or so after using 3.6 for 12 years. Your feedback was one of the reasons I upgraded. I could never get my head around the 3.7's. I have learned big speakers are hard to sell, I got very lucky and sold my Eggleston Andra II's locally. These were even heavier than the Thiels. |
Hi Pops, Do you know where a new woofer is available? |
Pops, I was doing research and Thiel can only rebuild mine for $550.00 Alan |
Alan, a few years ago I had Thiel rebuild/repair the bass drivers of my CS6's. Driver removal was easy and reinstallation was also easy but required a helping hand. The folks at Thiel were easy to deal with and I came away a very happy camper. |
Thanks for getting back to me regarding my woofer that needs to be rebuilt. Thiel has the parts on order. I'm looking at around three weeks. Regarding the woofer removal. Are the leads that short to unsolder them? I was going to get a chair and get something close to the height in front of the speaker very carefully. But if the wires are too short, I guess I will have someone hold it while I do the unsoldering. Can you give me the heads up on this?
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Hi Vegasears. I forgot to tell you that Thiel has new owners. |
Alan, that is exactly the case when I replaced the woofer on one of my Eggleston's. The wire to the woofer was VERY short. It just barely protruded out of the speaker cabinet. My wife had to hold the woofer and it was very cumbersome for me to desolder and solder but I got it done.
I am sorry I do not know of any available CS6 woofers - what a bummer Thiel has no inventory for classic models. |
Hi Vegasears,
I plan to take out the woofer to send back to Thiel over the weekend. Are the wires connections very short? |
Alan2 In my experience Ive heard both speakers using the
right gear,I own Andra1, A friend own CS6,these are both
good,Iam not trying to be biased, I prefer the Andra, they
are more real in piano,string,you name it.Ffries is correct.
They need more power,right now Iam using Viva and musical
fidelity 550 bi-amp.
When I heard your CS6 they were connected to ODDYSEY biamp,
they are match made in heaven. |
Yes Alan they were a little short. My Son held the driver and I soldered |
