The thing about objectivists is...

Listening is the essence and central activity of music appreciation. Listening is purely a result of the essential reality of subjectivity, and not that of any "objective reality" which is assumed to exist "out there." The human mind tends to rigidly cling to measurements, pedestrian concepts, and elaborate abstractions in attempt to simplify, subdivide, define, and categorize within the immensity of the realm of the experiential/subjective.

Over-reliance on concrete definitions and ideas serves to attach oneself to a sense of stability and security. The mind secretly hopes this will sufficiently ward off the uneasiness of feeling unsure, or off-balance, about one’s actual degree of comprehension regarding a given topic.

But what is it that is capable of registering sounds, recognition of patterns, recalling memory, and awareness? It’s pure subjectivity. It’s not the brain. That’s only an idea which is based on an entire system of definitions which define other definitions. The mind fortifies the boundaries of its interconnected structure by using circuitously self-reifying definitions.

Consider this: A description of a thing, proposed by the human mind, is only of that which a thing is not. A thing’s reality is not the same as its description.

What is it that is present in the pure silence during the instant just prior to sound waves propagating into the air space of the listening room? What is it which listens?

It’s subjective awareness, devoid of mental content. Your ideas aren’t listening, your experiential awareness is listening.

The more one thinks the same boring ideas one’s been thinking for years, the less one can listen. Subjectivity is the self-existent authority prior to the discernment of any quality, measured quantity, or the detection of that which we term "music". The deeper we can relax and sink into pure, silent subjectivity, the more deeply and purely we can listen and behold. Our subjective awareness becomes purer and less colored, our mind becomes more open and flexible, and experiential reality is seen to be the ever-present continuum which is of the greatest value of all.


Well well well.  Objectivity and subjectivity are not the same thing.

Wow.  I didn't know that.

@gladmo , where did you read all this?

I think that's enough masturbation for one discussion.

Rhythm and pace is the degree to which there is a life-like portrayal of those elements of the original performance.  Do you want to tap your feet or click your fingers, or bang your head?  Many say that digital finds this hard to do because of dither and clock problems.

Interesting to see folks working with these ideas. As with other terms, "subjective" and "objective" are words which do different work depending on context.

If I say, "These speakers sound good to me, subjectively" that is an objective statement about my sensory experience. It's a way of saying that I don't think I'm in an illusion about my experience, but that it's really happening to me. There might be ways of proving that to others -- with a brain scan, for example (someday) -- but you could also take my testimony as evidence, too. When a patient tells a doctor, "I'm in pain" that is taken as objective evidence by the doctor of the existence of pain, right?

If I say, "These speakers sound good, objectively" that is an objective statement about the kind of sensory experience others could be predicted to have. It's a hypothesis. It needs to be tested by others who are capable of having sensory experiences like mine. I could not ask my refrigerator to have this experience, because it's not capable.

What's the difference, then, between saying "These speakers sound good to me, subjectively" and saying, "These speakers sound good, objectively"?

The difference is merely one of confidence about my prediction. The first indicates that I am too uncertain about my experience to predict that others will have it. The second indicates a higher confidence that others will hear what I'm hearing.

That's really all I see at stake in these words.

A knife is not a knife. But once thrust into your heart, well that is a sharp thing instantly and objectively measured.

This argument is much like the nature v nurture dispute. It is a little bit of both. As a mother was once admonished, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  

I think my objective toaster may burn my subjective toast this morning and now I'm upset I may not be able to tell!

I'll get back to you.




Best embrace your inner Newtonian self. Far easier to live with and keep ahold of sanity.

@david_ten Interesting response. Where is this Newtonian self? The Newtonian paradigm is a system of thought which is within yourself, which is subjectivity.