The Synergistic Research Orange Fuse ... Further thoughts.


Here are my observations after several weeks of burning in the new SR Orange fuses:

1. The sound has a more relaxed presentation. 

2.  Clarity - There is less grain. I thought I had this beat, but evidently not. 

3.  The soundstage has expanded further and instruments and performers are more well-placed inside the stage. The presentation is a lot more three-dimensional. 

4.  More articulation on voices. Vocals are more organically human in nature. While listening to Kevin Mahogany sing "Skylark," I hung on every note and word in the lyrics. Massed voices, like those heard on the Norman Luboff Choir's "But Beautiful" album, are more delineated. The solo instruments are more present than ever before also.

5.  There is a definite improvement in dynamics. Drum solos place the drummer right there in the room with you. Rim shots, bongos, congas and big bass drums are amazing. So are vibes. Cal Tjader and Victor Feldman ... Welcome to the party. 

6.  There has been a further improvement in tonal accuracy. String instruments have taken on a new dimension.  

7.   Among other improvements, there has been a slight amount of welcome warmth added to the mid-bass. The music, as a result, has become more emotionally involving. A little more tube-like in a very nice way.

8.  More meat on the bones overall. Massed strings are beautiful.  Bach's "Air on a G String" ... simply beautiful.  

9.  Lastley, I can set the volume control lower and get the same volume in sound as before.

Overall ... the new Orange fuse is a real winner in my system. 

Highly recommended. 

Frank

55277d2f b397 4274 8baa 69513a5945acoregonpapa
After reaching around twenty new sound plateaus with fairly-easy-to-implement improvements in isolation, cables, power cords, fuses, TC past, Omega Mats, tubes, power supply--I am convinced there is no limit to improving the same components in a system---no need to upgrade for over eight years now.  
^^^ 
jafreeman
 ...

I am convinced there is no limit to improving the same components in a system---no need to upgrade for over eight years now.  
Exactly.

Even with all of the PPT products in the system, including The Gate, the SR Orange fuses brought things up to a new level. Hard to believe, but there it is. 

Frank
Mine shipped today. I’ll report on it next week.
Post removed 
@oregonpapa 
In which components did you use the Orange fuses?
^^^ Amp, line stage, phono stage, and the CD player. Four fuses total.

@oregonpapa   Frank, how did you conduct the comparison? Thanks.
These guys seem to come out with a new improved color fuse every year which starts to make me question the whether there are really material improvements being made or it's more driven by a marketing approach to drive sales.  I'm not saying fuses don't offer performance improvements (I use a SR Blue myself) but I'm not feeling any motivation whatsoever to replace the Blue with an Orange.  In general I prefer to see manufacturers stick with an excellent product for a longer cycle and only introduce a newer model when transformational improvements are really being engineered.  How much technical advancement meat is left on the bone to improve a fuse???

In all fairness I have not tried an Orange vs the Blue but the pattern I'm detecting in marketing is sending a caution flag my way.  Perhaps I'm alone in this view.
@three_easy_payments
It's more like every other year. The colored outlets are the between years. They color the sound a little differently each gen and those that need the "latest & greatest" bite. 🎣
david_ten ...

"Frank, how did you conduct the comparison? Thanks."
I had the Blue fuses in the system for over two years. I pulled them out and installed the Orange fuses. Then, I listened to the difference.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New, upgraded fuses appearing on the market for some reason seems to irritate people. Especially people who have never tried them in their system.

Do we hear the same irritations when other manufacturers upgrade their equipment? How about the ARC REF-75 I bought right before the "SE" version came out? Same thing with my ARC CD-7 before the "SE" version came out? I opted to sell the two items and buy the SE versions. Yep, there was a considerable improvement in both cases. Same with fuses.

Time marches on ... as does advancements in technology. If that weren’t true, we would still be driving 1938 Fords and Chevies ... or using buggy whips to drive our carriages.

Frank


Frank
You mean you DONT drive a 38 Special?
Interesting.

But I might be with 3 easy here as having spent $600 on blue fuses only 15 months ago or so I am not overkeen on blowing $640 to replace.
Maybe I will wait for the purple in another couple years......

Do not misread this, the orange may well be a huge improvement over the blue but not for me right now.

Got a box full of old fuses already......
@oregonpapa  Thanks, Frank.  For further clarification:

I had the Blue fuses in the system for over two years. I pulled them out and installed the Orange fuses. Then, I listened to the difference.

...Amp, line stage, phono stage, and the CD player. Four fuses total.

The comparison was to your system with the 4 blue fuses in 4 components versus the orange fuses in the same components (and system)? Memory of the sound of your 'former blue system' versus the "active" new 'orange' one, correct?
david_ten ...

Correct.

 All of my evaluations are based upon what I hear in my own system, no one else's. Over time, I've been fairly consistent in saying that. Same electronics. Same music. Same cabling. The only change made were the fuses.  Out with the old and in with the new.

Frank
uberwaltz ...

I hear you. Someone in another thread, maybe it was you, asked if there was a demand on the secondary market for used after-market fuses. I've never tried to sell them, opting instead to just giving them away to my down-and-out audiophile friends to use in their systems. I also, gave fuses to a couple of naysayers to try out. :-)

By the way, my very first car was a 1936 Chevy coupe. Bought it from my uncle for twelve dollars. He gave me terms ... a dollar a month. At the end of the year, as I was handing him the last dollar, he held up his hand, then reached into his wallet and gave me eleven dollars. When I asked what he was doing, he said ... "I just wanted to see if you would meet the terms and pay me as agreed." He gave me the car for free out of respect for a fifteen-year-old kid's honesty.  :-)

Uncle Burl ... RIP

Frank
@oregonpapa Frank, I need to challenge the methodology of your ’comparison’ as I understand it (post your clarification).

I believe it is especially important since you have self identified yourself as a beta tester and have shared your findings across 3 threads (if memory serves me).

Please know I am not disputing your findings (yet)...they may well hold...but I am now questioning them.

Please know this is coming from someone who is far more invested in SR than I believe you are.

I’m also familiar with SR’s improvements (and track record with new introductions) as one moves from a previous generation product to a new one.

If I am incorrect in what follows, please offer your corrections.

1. Audio Memory is fickle and tricky. This holds even when the comparisons are close in time. Removing 4 fuses in 4 different components takes time. Installing 4 fuses takes time. Having the components settle after being off and out of system takes time. Break-in time for the fuses, though shorter now, does add another time element. Were your fuses stock out of the box or were they specially broken in for you?

2. To A/B a single change isn’t easy. 4 changes simultaneously is quite a feat.

3. I’m assuming you did not A/B/A and repeat (?)

4. Directionality? Was it checked? By specific component?

5. Was there a reason why you did not compare the fuses one fuse/component at a time? In other words only one new orange fuse in the system with 3 blue fuses. Times 4.

6. Was there a reason you did not take a stepped approach. One component, then two? For example, starting with the most upstream or most downstream component.

7. Was there overlap with your Stop It applications? From your posts, it appears so. If that is the case, how are you separating out contributions from one or the other and both?

Thanks.
david_ten ...

I appreciate your questioning of my methodology in testing the new fuses. You are totally correct in doing so.

1. Yes, aural memory is fickle and tricky. The fuses were stock, right out of the box. Even though they weren’t broken in, they still sounded better than the fully broken-in Blue fuses that have been used for the past two years.

I don’t think your point about aural memory is valid in this case, because I am so familiar with my system. I can clearly hear differences every tweak makes, both for the better or if it degrades the sound. If I were testing fuses on an unfamiliar system, then I think your point would be valid.

2. No a/b comparisons were made. Not necessary. See #1.

3. Same as above.

4. Directionality checked? Yes .. I had to reorient the one in the line-stage. There was an improvement in overall focus. Slight, but better.

5. I did compare the Blue fuses one component at a time. With the Orange fuses, I tried the experiment of loading them all at once, so I could hear their total impact immediately. I was pleasantly surprised. Over time, say 20 hours, they improved quite a bit. Now that some weeks have passed, you’d have to pry them out of the system. I think at this point it would be akin to pulling out a couple of my ribs. :-)

6. See #5,

7. The "Stop It" duplex plugs were completely broken in at the time the fuses were tested. Normally, the "Stop It" duplex plugs need no break-in time at all. Those are the ones presently on the market... fully cured and broken in.

The ones I received from Tim weren’t cured like the ones on the market now. Using the "Stop It" duplex plugs prior to curing, or completely drying throughout from the manufacturing process, I had lost most of the mid-bass and some the lower bass. As soon as they cured, everything came back much better than before. That’s when I reported that they were like "putting ’The Gate’ on steroids." So, by the time the Orange fuse testing began, the "Stop It" duplex plugs had no effect (plus or minus) on the fuse test.

You mentioned that you are invested in SR products. I don’t have a lot of SR products, but the ones I DO have, the improvements afforded by them were immediately apparent. I remember when I put the ten-pack of HFT’s throughout the room as directed. Wow! That wasn’t subtle at all. In fact, in spite of having a lot of expensive room treatments in use (Bass Traps and Shatki Holograms) prior to installing the HFT’s, I had a bear of a time getting my room (raised foundation) under control. The HFT’s had a profound effect and actually completed the room. There was no need for a/b comparisons with the HFT’s ... just as there was no need for a/b comparisons with the new Orange fuses.

If you have SR’s HFT’s was your experience the same as mine?

Take care ...

Frank
There is always a need for a/b comparisons. 
^^^
I remember when I swapped out the KT-120 tubes in the REF-75 for the KT-150s. No need for a/b comparisons there at all. Nor was there any need for a/b comparisons in swapping out the SR Blue fuses for the SR Orange fuses. In both cases, the improvement was immediate and very obvious.

Frank
@oregonpapa Frank, thank you so much for your response, it’s thoroughness, and for answering my questions directly, honestly, and fully. I respect and appreciate that. Thank You!

I’ll comment more in a subsequent post because I would have conducted the same or a similar ’evaluation’ differently than you did.

I do not have the HFTs nor do I have any direct exposure to them. Everyone who has implemented them in their systems (that I know personally) has also strongly suggested my using them. : )

My investment in and experience with SR has been in power conditioning, grounding, cables, and isolation.
@oregonpapa 

Do we hear the same irritations when other manufacturers upgrade their equipment?

Absolutely! That's certainly one of the things that bugs me about ARC is their creation of a perpetual 2-year upgrade cycle.  I much prefer the approach of Pass or VAC or Herron or Kuzma for instance who only introduce new product versions when there is a something of substance to present (in my view).  
^^^ I've been more than satisfied with ARC. Been a customer since the early 1980s. As stated before, I  no longer chase the upgrade path. Only tweaks for me from now on. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My friend Robert gifted me with the 180g reissue of Dave Brubeck's "Dave Digs Disney." I played it for the first time tonight. Dead silent vinyl and sounded great. I could have reached out and touched Paul Desmond. 

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dave-Brubeck-Quartet-Dave-Digs-Disney-1957-CL1059-6-Eye-MONO-vinyl-is-NM/283617615442?hash=item4208ed5e52:g:mSIAAOSwgfpddqFv

Frank
There is a wide divide between believing and knowing, at least there is for me. 

As @analogluvr  points out:

There is always a need for a/b comparisons.

In my experience, I have learned that my audio memory is suspect (if I am only going by it) and it becomes progressively problematic the longer the time between event A and event B.

I've learned this by evaluating my gear with direct and repeated comparisons across (nearly all) of my system changes. It's really hard work, but the rewards are significant and the growth and learning well worth it and in some cases priceless. 

I say this despite being intimately familiar with my system and having spent thousands of hours with it. 

My advice to members is to test and question yourself and your approach to audio more vigorously than your gear.
Well said! @david_ten. 
I’m the first to admit, after being out of the high end audio loop since about 2000 (had to take a break or lose my sanity), I am basically a newbie again. So much has changed...and yet it remains the same. I see the same arguement about cabling that was going on in 1978, 1990, and 2000 is still going strong.

But this "fuse" debate has me baffled. Can someone give me a quick breakdown on what is being discussed? What product are you changing fuses in? I only know of Synergy Research by what I have seen in Audiophile forums and chat rooms, and it is one of two extremes -- love Ted Denney or consider him and SR as nothing more than snake oil. I take it that Ted is the person who started SR, but all I know about the company is it sells power conditioners, high end cables, and other products I’m sure. I have no opinion one way or the other because I am not familiar with their products nor have I used them. I don’t praise or demonize anything that I have not tested myself.

Again, I would appreciate an education. Many times when you ask this type of question on these forums, all you hear is "That is what the Internet is for" or "Try Goggle". The problem is, I don’t know what to search for...I don’t understand "Orange Fuses" from "Blue Fuses" in the context of this discussion.

Thank you.

Allen
allenf1963

The fuses are used in your electronics, like amps, line stages, phono stages, and speakers that use fuses like Maggies.

The Orange fuse under discussion here is made by Synergistic Research in Santa Ana, California. The owner and lead designer of SR products is still Ted Denney.

I’ve been on the other sites you mentioned where some members excoriate Ted Denney. He’s actually hated by a few members on those sites.

Those calling Ted Denney’s products "snake oil," for the most part have never tried SR products. They are people who lead narrow, darkened little lives and take pleasure in talking out of their heinies.

These are very destructive people, not just on the audiophile sites, but destructive in general as they wander through life without a positive focus, or a second thought about how much they hurt others ... all for the cause of making themselves feel far more important than they are.

To paraphrase Nikola Tesla ... "If hatred was electricity, they could light up the entire world."

If you were to go back on earlier fuse threads, you’d find that the Orange fuse is the latest SR fuse to hit the market. Prior to the Orange fuse, there are A’gon threads on the SR Red, Black and Blue fuses. Each one was an incremental improvement over the others.

While $160 for a fuse seems expensive, especially I would imagine to someone like yourself who has been out of the hobby for a while, you can be assured they are not snake oil, and that they perform well beyond their price point.

There’s a 30 day trial period with a 100% money-back guarantee. If they do nothing for you, then you’d be out only the cost of return shipping.

www.highendelectronics.com

Hope this helps ...

Frank
^^^^bravo...hope you’re being compensated for your relentless PR efforts. 
lalitk ... 

The man asked the question. I provided the answer. 

By the way, I just bought a private jet with my royalties. See you in Paris. 

Frank
What amazes me about threads like this, even more than Ted's incredible ability to continually best himself, is how eager and diligent some are to tell us all in no uncertain terms just how awful they are at listening and remembering what they've heard. For damn sure if I was that lost at sea I'd want to keep it to myself. The last thing I would ever want to do is try and act like everyone else has to adapt to my lack of ability. But no. I can't tell, so you can't either. A perennial fave. Amazing.

A big +1 here for SR, and highendelectronics.com
For those who can hear the difference.
Is the low bass in still as good as the prior blue fuse?  
  millercarbon ... +1

Two appropriate Nikola Tesla quotes: 

"If hatred was electricity, they could light the world."   

"I'm not disappointed that they stole my ideas ... I'm disappointed that they have no ideas of their own." 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
audiotunesx
 ...

Yes, the bass is considerably better. Acoustic bass becomes even more natural and tuneful. Everything is better with the Orange fuse. Percussion takes on a new life as well. 

Frank
I used to be amazed, that those complaining about aural memory, knew who’s on the other end of a phone conversation(before Caller ID).   Even(possibly) after years of not conversing with the person.    A good man recognizes his own limitations.    A wise man knows; everyone else is not, necessarily, likewise limited.
oregonpapa, millercarbon & SR = +1(each)
david_ten = +1(for diligence, growth and learning)  Never stop experimenting!
This hobby is almost entirely subjective....bottom line is try it and see if you like it more ...if you are happier that is what is important

Now perhaps it's not truly better but just different....perhaps more synergy with rest of equipment or room or just your subjective taste...you like it more that is what matters....

If you want to experiment more it's fun to try and if you are tired of trying new things or feel you got perfect balance then no need to try it.


Oregon papa - I need very specific advice as to how to implement the SR fuses into my main system, if you do not mind. I have reached the decision to try them out.  My equipment is as follows:

Lumin D 1 - this is my main source - no fuse port
Krell KAV 400xi - AGC 8 fuse port
2 Maggie 1.7i - Type 3AG (4 amp max)
Maggie DWM Panel - no fuse port
Son of Ampzilla II - no fuse port
Furman Elite 15 Power Conditioner - no fuse port

i assume I need three Orange fuses or should I just do the Maggie’s?

Based on multiple threads here on Audiogon - over the last 6 months I have upgraded my interconnects (Anticable), High Fidelity Cables - MC0.5 Power Conditioner, and the Furman Elite 15. Every time I introduced a change my sound has improved. I guess I am hoping for the same here.

any advice is appreciated.
Tom 8999

Nobody that is nontechnical should be going inside any piece of audio equipment and touching mains fuses.

This is an accident waiting to happen if someone needs to ask how to replace all his fuses for these orange voodoo fuses.

Some day somebody is going to forget to unplug the mains cord, take the lid off his equipment and grab that fuse with is fingers🤦‍♂️, it’s probably already happened we just don’t get to hear about it.
Are you then oregonpapa/SR going to put your hand up as say, it’s our fault?? I think not.

Cheers George
From SR:
Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse.
A/C current changes direction every cycle. The supreme idiocy of the statement: what if I view end on??? 

and

UEF Tech is so powerful even an electrical chain several miles long is fundimentally [sic] improved with nothing more than a single fuse engineered with our patented UEF Technology
Prove it. Set up two chains. A/D them simultaneously for 200 hours @ 32bit/384kHz. Replace 1 fuse. Repeat. Show us the deltas pre/post and over 200 hours.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that systems [couldn't possibly be me] are rarely the same...
@tom8999- You’ve already heard the differences, you’re other upgrades have made. You know you can trust your ears. SR offers a money-back, satisfaction guarantee. Experiment safely, with nothing to lose and, very possibly: enjoyment to gain. I’d just try the Krell’s Mains fuse(under the IEC) first. I would next try the Krell’s two speaker fuses(under L/R speaker connections). Have you upgraded the Krell's power cord yet?  If not, do that first.    Far as the Maggies, I've always bi-passed(have owned four pair) the fuse & attenuator stuff, entirely, so- can’t tell if a better fuse helps. I wouldn’t expect a big difference, in that circuit, though(just my opinion). Does the Krell have rail fuses? Of course, if it’s new; opening it would void the warranty.

ieales
440 posts
10-19-2019 3:26pmFrom SR:
Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse.
A/C current changes direction every cycle. The supreme idiocy of the statement: what if I view end on???


>>>>While that’s true, and for virtually all cables and power cords - the current alternates. 🔛 But you can ignore 😳 the current when it’s traveling in the direction toward the wall outlet. 🔜  The only direction we care about is the one that drives the speakers. That’s the direction that is audible. 
So a while back I had some sr20 fuses and some hifi tuning mundorf fuses..they both had a different effect in my system and I preferred the mundorf over sr..until the black fuses came out the changed my mind about synergistic fuses. .when the blue fuses came out I jumped in without hesitation. Even bought the blue duplex and some blue power cables. .needless to say I have 3 orange fuses arriving today to place in my amplifier and I'm looking forward to hearing the improvements. Guess I'm a sucker.lol!
So a while back I had some sr20 fuses and some hifi tuning mundorf fuses..they both had a different effect in my system and I preferred the mundorf over sr..until the black fuses came out the changed my mind about synergistic fuses. .when the blue fuses came out I jumped in without hesitation. Even bought the blue duplex and some blue power cables. .needless to say I have 3 orange fuses arriving today to place in my amplifier and I'm looking forward to hearing the improvements. Guess I'm a sucker.lol!
Overall ... the new Orange fuse is a real winner in my system.

Highly recommended.

Frank
Frank, oregonpapa was evaluating Orange prototype fuse for Ted Denney (Synergistic Research). His hype "testimony" is just advertizing material, very pathetic . Any credible opinions on Orange are welcome. 
9. Lastley, I can set the volume control lower and get the same volume in sound as before.


First..."lastley" isn't a word.

Second, are you willing to have this statement proven via measurements? 
I have the synergistic blues fuses and are very good ,in my preamp section I tried the orange a  3-4% better then the blue but.currently $70 more per fuse and I needed 5 ,solution 
i use Furutech nano fluid which uses nano particles of silver,gold  i use a small foam swab and coated the fuse holder contacts good which contacts are crap and this alone gave a noticable boost in detail 
it takes a few weeks to dry but gets better over the few weeks 
others I know that have used it agree, even on power cords ,both sides .on ebay I get it straight from Japan for $120 delivered vs $170 here and it goes a long way and BTW synergistic uses brass 
nickel end caps ,Hifi tuning use silver,gold.it says right on the synergistic site ,it not the best conductors ,vs silver,gold
that’s why the Furutech nano fluid makes a noticable enhancement it goes into the pours of the fuse,and holder.and save $$

I am also in the process of upgrading fuses in my system from mostly Synergistic Blue to Orange.  There are a couple of questions that I wanted to ask those with experience with these fuses:

- Given the same fuse generation, does a higher Amperage fuse sound fuller and better than a lower Amperage fuse (eg replacing a 500mA fuse with a 2A fuse) ? I assume the higher rated fuse has a thicker filament and could actually result in a better response.

- Is there any way to accelerate the burn-in process? The 200-300 hour burn-in process for the fuse means that I put in 200-300 hours on the very expensive and hard to find tubes that I have in my equipment before I get good sound. And, to compound that, since I will be upgrading my fuses gradually, this means that I will be putting in many hours on the tubes in my DAC, preamp, and amp before the fuses are burned-in. By then, the tubes have aged considerably, which is very concerning.

Need a little help if I purchase orange fuses in what order should I replace them for the best bang for the buck and a few words on why. Would it be AMP first then the preamp DAC phono stage?

I have a BHK 250
             BHK Pre
             Perfect wave DAC
             Stella phono amp
             Power Plant 20

Pass Labs for my home theater 
Someone suggested don't replace the rail fuses in the 250

Thanks in advance 
Your sourse components do first ,since the music starts there it is the most critical part of the chain.
nobody speaks of runin time Synergistic says 2-300 hours. 100 hours brings it over 90% 
always should  if possible Go to a bit bigger size for these are accurate and Can blow  ,standard buzz fuse can vary over 15-20%, I found out the hard way with earlier versions.
theone in mySchiit Yggsdrasil made a very noticable improvement 
my preamp section nowreplacing orangefrom blue , very overpriced imo, but worth it. Also as far as snake oil comments 
great electronics Gurus like John Curl, and Nelson Pass as a small example has used them ,and they may know a thing or two about Electronics engineering !! There is on average 4 x less resistance  from these top fuses vs the steel,zinc fuses,just lookup metals resistance index .the steel fuses are a bottleneck .