the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings


why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear.  my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em.  Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
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Showing 3 responses by pwerahera

Magnepan MG12/QR speakers are rated at 86dB with 4 ohm impedance. These are ribbon speakers and very complex loads for the amplifier. Your preferred amp Proton D1200 amp is rated 100W at 8 Ohms. You need a SS amp with plenty of power, I would say at least 400 W at 4 ohms before you can really determine if mass strings are a problem. Find a good dealer who can loan you a good amp with plenty of current and try that in your system first.

I understand issue with mass strings all too well. I think your problem is with the amplifier. Old Krell and McCormack amps can handle mass strings with ease. But they are not the only ones.

Good Luck!
pwerahera:If you google PROTON D1200, you will see that it can deliver several hundred watts per channel. there is a tube demo showing how much power it is capable of.
From the Owners manual at:
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/proton/d-1200.shtml Specifications:Rated power 100 W per channel at 8 Ohm

Clipping power: 110 watts per channel into 8 Ohm (stereo), 175 W per channel at 4 Ohm and 220 W at 2 Ohm


But your speakers are not very efficient at 86 dB and has an impedance of 4 ohms. Hence, you need an amp that puts at least 400 W at 4 Ohms. Try an amp that can deliver 200 W at 8 Ohm, 400 W at 4 Ohm. Better if it can deliver 800 W at 2 Ohms.These are rated power, NOT clipping or dynamic power.

the proton d1200 amp can produce 540w/1000w/1500w   20ms          '450w/650w/800w  100ms                                                                         '380w/500w/520w  200ms                                                                      'duty cycle  500ms dynamic headroom at 8,4,2ohms 7.3db    'should be able to easily handle any crescendo that Beethoven,Mahler,or Orff can dish out,n'est pas?

What's the difference between Continuous RMS and Dynamic Power ?
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/faq/audio_visual/2483.html
Many people confuse these specifications, so I will try to give you a simplified, non-technical explanation. Continuous RMS Power, is the spec that really tells you how powerful an amplifier is. RMS power is expressed in watts. A typical specification might read 100 watts RMS into 8 ohms from 20Hz-20KHz at .01% THD. What this means, basically, is that the amplifier will deliver 100 watts into an 8-ohm speaker from 20Hz to 20Khz? This frequency range is basically the entire audio range that an individual can hear. The THD spec stands for Total Harmonic Distortion: This is the amount of distortion the amplifier will introduce into the original signal. Any high quality amp made today has extremely low distortion ratings. The human ear cannot hear anything under 2%. For the most part, when you are considering purchasing an amplifier, you can disregard the THD specifications.

Dynamic Power, is a little more difficult to understand. This is a test of the amplifier's ability to go beyond its continuous RMS power for a very short time period. We are not talking minutes or even seconds here. We are talking milliseconds or thousandths of a second. A musical transient peak, such as a cymbal crash lasts only a very short time. Dynamic power is usually measured into 8 ohms, but specifications are generally also published for 2, 4, and 6 ohm loads as well. To keep things from getting too complicated, we will concentrate on the 8-ohm figures. To measure dynamic power, an amplifier is fed a 1000 Hz signal for 20 milliseconds then allowed to rest for 480 milliseconds. The amplifier volume control is turned up until the amp reaches the clipping point. At that point, the amp has reached its instantaneous peak or dynamic power output. Like the continuous power rating, dynamic power is expressed in watts. The figure is usually significantly larger than the RMS power rating, and should not be confused with the continuous power ratings of the amplifier. A dynamic power rating into a figure such as 1 or 2 ohms does not mean that the amplifier can drive a speaker with a 1 or 2 ohm rating continuously. If you attempt that, the amplifier will either go into the protection mode or possibly cause damage.

PROTON D1200  continuous RMS power is 100 W at 8 ohms. This amplifier is NOT rated for RMS power at 4 Ohms which is the internal impedance of the Magnepan MG12/QR speakers. You got plenty of company to discuss for issues with mass violins. I am trying to give you a solution to at least minimize the problems related to reproducing mass violins in your system.