The "Snake Oil" Trope


Yeah I know, a controversial topic, but after 30+ years of hearing both sides and seeing how the argument has evolved over the years, I want to say my piece.

First, I want to debunk the idea of ever using the term, "Snake Oil" because it has been incorrectly appropriated and is not being applied genuinely. For a product to be "Snake Oil" it isn't a simple matter of, "it doesn't do what it claims to do." It has to contain a few more qualities. Chief among them, the materials or ingredients have to be fake, falsified, or non-existent. I have yet to encounter a single premium cable manufacturer who has claimed to use copper or silver and it was fake.

This would be an example of cable "Snake Oil" if it existed:

Company claim: "A 10 gauge speaker wire made of ten 9's pure silver, extracted from conflict-free mines, using NASA quality FEP dielectrics, braided in 24 strands of 17 gauge wire, all concealed in the newly developed element, Star-Spangled-Bannerite, that enhances and boosts all frequencies, repairing broken audio as it travels down the conductor."

Reality: Cutting open the wire you find 3 strands of 14 gauge aluminum wire, wrapped in Glad's saran-wrap, threaded through a 10 gauge rubber garden hose, covered in a fancy colored net.

My biggest problem with the nay-sayer community is the hypocrisy of their accusation that premium quality cables are "Snake Oil" when their charts, measurements and tests have the same level of skepticism they purport to debunk. Using "Snake Oil" to prove "Snake Oil?" Ask yourself the following questions when you next see some online or vlog rant about how cables don't make a difference and they have the measurements to prove it:

1) Did they actually connect the cables to speakers and listen?
2) If they made measurements, did they show you how those cables were connected when they conducted the tests?
3) If it is a vlog, did they show in the video live footage of them conducting the test or is everything after-the-fact?
4) How does the test prove quality and how does the author quantify "quality?"

99% of the time the answer is "no." You just see people posting pictures of charts that could have been made using any form of software.  Heck, I could make one in Photoshop that dictates any conclusion I want. The truth is, there isn't a single form of equipment or measurement software that tests the actual perceived quality or clarity of a signal.

For example, "that guy" from Audioholics posted a video bashing a $4000 Audioquest speaker cable.  He claims to have run it through tests and he posted pictures of graphs that he gave conclusions for.  Not once did he show how it was connected to the machines or equipment. More over, he claimed to have broken the cable, by easily snapping off the banana plug (made of pure copper coated in silver). Well, if that were true, then how could he have possibly connected the cable correctly to test it?  He also claimed the cable was on loan from Audioquest.  Red flag. Audioquest does not send out one speaker cable to test; they'd have sent out a pair.  He also wasn't at all concerned that he had broken a $4000 loaner cable.  Therefore, I suspect someone else broke their own cable and let "this guy" borrow it for a video. Lastly, he claims to test the effectiveness of the "DBS" system by showing you a digital read out on some other machine.  He claims to unplug the DBS system live...but...off screen, and the digital read out changes. That makes absolutely no sense, since the DBS system isn't tied to the actual conductors or connectors. It's a charged loop from end to end and only keeps the insulation's dielectric field charged. So unplugging it while a signal is being passed through the cable wouldn't change anything. Therefore,  the nay-sayer argument, in this instance, was nothing more than "Snake Oil" trying to prove "Snake Oil."

Another time, someone was given a premium XLR cable, but had no idea what an XLR cable was.  They didn't recognize the connector format; a red flag straight away!  Then goes on to claim all the different measurements they took from it and how it was no better than the free cables you get from manufacturers.  Well, if that is true, how was this cable connected to the equipment? If he didn't know what the XLR format was, then it stands to reason they didn't have an XLR input on the equipment they used to test. Therefore, how in the world was this an equitable or viable test of the quality if the cable's conductors weren't all being used correctly during the test? Not once did this person connect it to an audio system to say how it sounded. How do electrical measurements translate into sound quality if one refuses to listen to it?

My final argument against the nay-sayers is one they all have the most trouble with. They don't use the Scientific Method.  For example, where's the control in these tests? What system or cable do they universally *ALL* agree is perfect and that they test against? The systems and cables always change and are never consistent. Why is it that they argue for an A / B test, but aren't willing to set one up for themselves? As if it's someone else's responsibility because they refuse to be responsible for their conclusions. Why is it that they only test low end or middle grade cables, but never seem to run these tests on the highest levels? Why is it that the majority of nay-sayers never purchase any of this equipment to find out for themselves?

What I have discovered after 30+ years of arguing this topic, is that the nay-sayers just don't want to have to buy expensive cables.  Instead they seek out any form of cognitive bias they can find to use as justification to not buy it.  Then suddenly concern themselves with other people's purchase power and tell them not to purchase such cables, as if these people are spending their money. Or they claim that they should have spent all that money on better equipment. Touche', but if they bought better equipment, they'd still buy premium cables to push that better equipment. That's like saving your money to buy a Lamborghini, then deciding on buying 15 inch steel rims with narrow tires for it because wheels are wheels...they bought a better vehicle, so won't need premium tires...or premium gas because the engine is superior. *eye roll.* What it seems to boil down to is that they don't like the idea that just buying premium cables alone can surpass a high grade, well-engineered system. To borrow from my car analogy, buying premium tires for a 4-cylynder hatch back won't make it go any faster, but it will effect some performance, likely gas mileage and road grip. Using the same analogy, buying better cables is akin to buying a turbo kit, back-exhaust system, better suspension, better intake valves, better cold air filters, etc to make that 4-cylinder hatch back perform nearly as well as a stock   Lamborghini.

Final thoughts, "Snake Oil" salesmen back in the day weren't just interested in defrauding their customers, they wanted to do it with the least amount of effort. They didn't try to get authentic, high quality ingredients to make the oil look or taste better.  They used whatever was on-hand and as free as possible. Cable companies sure seem to go out of their way to acquire the best possible conductors and materials, and have R&D teams engineer complicated wire geometries and spend years finding ways to treat the cables, or develop active tech to impact the signal, just so they can make a few bucks. If the product had absolutely no impact on sound quality, at all,  it wouldn't take long for well-engineered systems to reveal their faults and the industry would tank, almost over night. Clearly, they haven't and it's because it isn't "Snake Oil" no matter how many times that old trope is trotted out.

One of the serious problems in this entire discussion is that the perception of "quality" is 100% subjective to the listener, the state of the equipment, the room it is being conducted in, and health of the listener. After years of auditioning my system to people, I realized it isn't a simple matter of asking, "How did that sound to you." You have to be very specific.  Ask, "Did you hear that specific sound?"  9 times out of 10, they'll say they didn't hear it.  So you play it again and point it out.  Then they light up and realize that no matter how many times they heard that song, they had never heard that particular sound.  Then they go and compare it to the car radio or through their device's ear buds and realize they cannot hear it or couldn't hear it as clear.  Then they come to respect what you're trying to achieve.




128x128guakus

Showing 8 responses by oldhvymec

So it boils down to "It's your money, and your business".

I agree 100%. 

It does get old people trying to save ME.

Like Master M said. "What if I don't want to be saved?"

Sharing an experience, experiment, new "THING" is fun.

An opinion on the other hand without even trying a product, I flush like the waste of space it is.. We have a few heroes around, trying to save US from ourselves.. Comical, and VERY sad in some cases. I'm almost (but not quite) embarrassed for them.. :-)

I'm glad I have a prayer list..

Check out the Quantum thread..

Regards
Patience goes a long ways OP. I walk away and listen for very short periods. My ears won’t hold up for accurate listening beyond 5-10 minutes. I love it when people give reviews on stuff after one or two sessions. 2-4 hours.. I use to cover speaker for a WEEK before I’d listen.. YUK..

It takes weeks for cabling to settle and sound they way they are going to from new vs settled in and broken in..

Used, and broken-in equipment at least a few hours and if contact goo is used, a couple of days at least..

"Snake oil" is tossed around like "Troll", Thought it seems naysayers TROLL the rank and file of all the sites..

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Heavy - please pray for my $71

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So do you want the money back or the fuses?

I got your fuses at my house.. OPS!.. Wrong prayer. :-)

I ordered a pair, too.. I sure can't speak on the subject if I don't give it a try..

Supply and demand... pretty simple.

Regards
OP when you were using copper with silver clad RCA for the subs, how long did they stay before you swapped them back out? Were the silver clad RCAs brand new? Were the copper RCAs old?

I've had "things" happen with silver clad and tinned copper too..

It took 10 years to break in some pure silver # 12 with teflon covers.. 
I covered the speakers and let them play for 2 weeks straight after owning them for 15 years.. MAGIC.. I couldn't believe my ears.. I just though I spent 100.00 on surplus silver cable that was JUNK..  It's what I use for a reference now.. As good as I've ever heard..

Thanks.. 
I'm with you OP, I do what ever I want to do. I tailor the sound with cables all the time.. I've yet to really find a neutral cable. I'm not sure I know what neutral or transparent really means. I think the terms attached to the description is what throws me. I've read 5 page reviews that boil down to. THEY SOUND OK, or GOOD, or worse yet THEY sound bad and it took 5 pages to say it..:-)

Regards
OP.. I'm forever the nosy sort.. Thanks for the input.. Bass and heavy copper go together. I've used pure silver stinger (SC) for single ended stuff. It's funny it's as good if not better. Where clad has always had a roll off of bass and mids for me.. High frequency boil wasn't uncommon either. Mill spec stopped most of my issues.. The thinner the clad the worse it was for HF boil, or the lack of luster and thunder..

I've ran copper to the positive and silver clad to the negative direct coupled to the amps.. I came up with some interesting results doing that on the speaker IC.

I quit using shielding all together. Digital IC I pay attention to, that's it.

BUT Analog, simple multiconductor weaves seem to be sent from the audiophile gods to this humble listener.. Multiconductor ribbons are another fine construct.. In combination, the best so far for me.. for about 2-300.00 for the best I can find. One pair of ribbons one pair of weaves. 150-250.00 for 3 meter runs..

Interesting thread..

Regards
They’re not trying to save you. They’re trying to save the less knowledgeable people you may influence.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well you really should read a little closer. I encourage one thing, "to thine own self be true".

If you want to spent the money on "STUFF" that’s good for you, but don’t expect me to buy 500.00 or 5k cables anytime soon when I get happy with very high quality 200.00 cables at the most..

Influence? Impart my experience maybe.. BUT for the most part I recommend a "Type" of cable not a brand.. Same with equipment.

Though I do have a few preferences, Vintage Mac being one.. Cary being another..

A type of speaker, my vendor went out of business, I still use that type of speaker.. Very few brands though.. Strathearn maybe. Monsoon, BG, AC drivers.. I like mine...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=daffy+duck+mine+mine+mine&&view=detail&mid=393722D02F168478858A393722D02F168478858A&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Ddaffy%2Bduck%2Bmine%2Bmine%2Bmine%26qs%3DHS%26form%3DQBVR%26sp%3D1%26sc%3D2-0%26cvid%3DD2E944CC6CB642F58121FD1BE83DB7C

Regards
Gold is # 3 but the melting point is very low, plating with a lower melting point will decrease the wires melting point. That is figured into the new alloys being used as fuse wire, they also dissipate heat a lot quicker so HEAT doesn't influence the quality of the AC for 30 minutes while the fuse reforms and cools down.

There is a reason why there is a 30 minute warm up, it's ALSO a cool down for the slow blow fuse in a tube amp, or ANY amp that uses a slow blow.. They get HOT on start up..

Most of the boutique fuses dissipate the heat almost instantly when they are dampened with  oil/goo/sand/???. Silver coated tungsten then plate a 2nd time with gold. I've seen some weird wire. It is still a fuse it just has OTHER properties that influence SQ more so than a good ol Busman.

We are a living, learning, changing thing.. So is a stereo..:-)

Need to fix the chicken coop.

Regards 
yeah, I know, one can't really compare Vac tubes to fuses, but I feel the point stands.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think you can make a good case though.

That’s what everyone is trying to say, that quite a few of the fancy fuses don’t ACT like a typical fuse. They actually make certain pieces of equipment sound different.. Some equipment they don’t change a single thing.. The better the power supply the less I notice it.

The one thing I don’t like about a stock fuse is 1/2 way through it’s life the little wire is already showing signs of resistance, it is so gradual, it is tough to hear it getting worse over the last 1/2 of its life.

New fuses don’t heat up, vibrate, or warp like a busman. MOST are now packed in some type of a thermal-coupling mixture that dampen and transmits heat very quickly. That sudden "turn on" that heats and adds resistance into the circuit, and the last 1/2 of the stock fuse life is the problem that the new fuses fix.

The characteristics of how the fuse acts when turned on NOW keeps that element a lot more thermally correct over its WHOLE life not just the first 1/2 and the first 30 minutes too or until the fuse wire cools again. There is a reason a fancy fuse sounds better from the first time you turn it on.. If it is a Slow Blow, I notice it more so..

There is a reason they work the way they do, there is a lot of mumbo jumbo that goes into making a fuse, that you can’t get a patent on unless you show, what you want a patent on..

Guess what happen to your great fuse idea? Everyone in the counterfeit world is copying your 3 years of R&D, because you were dumb enough to go to a patent office, in the US, pay a lot of money and STILL have people in other countries laugh at you, in your US court, while THEY copy your US patent with all the notations on HOW to make the stupid thing.. Not to smart is it?

That is why there is NOT a lot on "how they do it". ONLY that they do it, and offer you your money back if it doesn’t work for you..

I worked around a lot of German folks for 15 years, both countries, (the US and Germany) could give a crap about patent stuff, they just wouldn’t tell you how to make it or what it was made out of.. LOL Use to crack me up.. Tooling primarily..

Regards