The "Snake Oil" Trope


Yeah I know, a controversial topic, but after 30+ years of hearing both sides and seeing how the argument has evolved over the years, I want to say my piece.

First, I want to debunk the idea of ever using the term, "Snake Oil" because it has been incorrectly appropriated and is not being applied genuinely. For a product to be "Snake Oil" it isn't a simple matter of, "it doesn't do what it claims to do." It has to contain a few more qualities. Chief among them, the materials or ingredients have to be fake, falsified, or non-existent. I have yet to encounter a single premium cable manufacturer who has claimed to use copper or silver and it was fake.

This would be an example of cable "Snake Oil" if it existed:

Company claim: "A 10 gauge speaker wire made of ten 9's pure silver, extracted from conflict-free mines, using NASA quality FEP dielectrics, braided in 24 strands of 17 gauge wire, all concealed in the newly developed element, Star-Spangled-Bannerite, that enhances and boosts all frequencies, repairing broken audio as it travels down the conductor."

Reality: Cutting open the wire you find 3 strands of 14 gauge aluminum wire, wrapped in Glad's saran-wrap, threaded through a 10 gauge rubber garden hose, covered in a fancy colored net.

My biggest problem with the nay-sayer community is the hypocrisy of their accusation that premium quality cables are "Snake Oil" when their charts, measurements and tests have the same level of skepticism they purport to debunk. Using "Snake Oil" to prove "Snake Oil?" Ask yourself the following questions when you next see some online or vlog rant about how cables don't make a difference and they have the measurements to prove it:

1) Did they actually connect the cables to speakers and listen?
2) If they made measurements, did they show you how those cables were connected when they conducted the tests?
3) If it is a vlog, did they show in the video live footage of them conducting the test or is everything after-the-fact?
4) How does the test prove quality and how does the author quantify "quality?"

99% of the time the answer is "no." You just see people posting pictures of charts that could have been made using any form of software.  Heck, I could make one in Photoshop that dictates any conclusion I want. The truth is, there isn't a single form of equipment or measurement software that tests the actual perceived quality or clarity of a signal.

For example, "that guy" from Audioholics posted a video bashing a $4000 Audioquest speaker cable.  He claims to have run it through tests and he posted pictures of graphs that he gave conclusions for.  Not once did he show how it was connected to the machines or equipment. More over, he claimed to have broken the cable, by easily snapping off the banana plug (made of pure copper coated in silver). Well, if that were true, then how could he have possibly connected the cable correctly to test it?  He also claimed the cable was on loan from Audioquest.  Red flag. Audioquest does not send out one speaker cable to test; they'd have sent out a pair.  He also wasn't at all concerned that he had broken a $4000 loaner cable.  Therefore, I suspect someone else broke their own cable and let "this guy" borrow it for a video. Lastly, he claims to test the effectiveness of the "DBS" system by showing you a digital read out on some other machine.  He claims to unplug the DBS system live...but...off screen, and the digital read out changes. That makes absolutely no sense, since the DBS system isn't tied to the actual conductors or connectors. It's a charged loop from end to end and only keeps the insulation's dielectric field charged. So unplugging it while a signal is being passed through the cable wouldn't change anything. Therefore,  the nay-sayer argument, in this instance, was nothing more than "Snake Oil" trying to prove "Snake Oil."

Another time, someone was given a premium XLR cable, but had no idea what an XLR cable was.  They didn't recognize the connector format; a red flag straight away!  Then goes on to claim all the different measurements they took from it and how it was no better than the free cables you get from manufacturers.  Well, if that is true, how was this cable connected to the equipment? If he didn't know what the XLR format was, then it stands to reason they didn't have an XLR input on the equipment they used to test. Therefore, how in the world was this an equitable or viable test of the quality if the cable's conductors weren't all being used correctly during the test? Not once did this person connect it to an audio system to say how it sounded. How do electrical measurements translate into sound quality if one refuses to listen to it?

My final argument against the nay-sayers is one they all have the most trouble with. They don't use the Scientific Method.  For example, where's the control in these tests? What system or cable do they universally *ALL* agree is perfect and that they test against? The systems and cables always change and are never consistent. Why is it that they argue for an A / B test, but aren't willing to set one up for themselves? As if it's someone else's responsibility because they refuse to be responsible for their conclusions. Why is it that they only test low end or middle grade cables, but never seem to run these tests on the highest levels? Why is it that the majority of nay-sayers never purchase any of this equipment to find out for themselves?

What I have discovered after 30+ years of arguing this topic, is that the nay-sayers just don't want to have to buy expensive cables.  Instead they seek out any form of cognitive bias they can find to use as justification to not buy it.  Then suddenly concern themselves with other people's purchase power and tell them not to purchase such cables, as if these people are spending their money. Or they claim that they should have spent all that money on better equipment. Touche', but if they bought better equipment, they'd still buy premium cables to push that better equipment. That's like saving your money to buy a Lamborghini, then deciding on buying 15 inch steel rims with narrow tires for it because wheels are wheels...they bought a better vehicle, so won't need premium tires...or premium gas because the engine is superior. *eye roll.* What it seems to boil down to is that they don't like the idea that just buying premium cables alone can surpass a high grade, well-engineered system. To borrow from my car analogy, buying premium tires for a 4-cylynder hatch back won't make it go any faster, but it will effect some performance, likely gas mileage and road grip. Using the same analogy, buying better cables is akin to buying a turbo kit, back-exhaust system, better suspension, better intake valves, better cold air filters, etc to make that 4-cylinder hatch back perform nearly as well as a stock   Lamborghini.

Final thoughts, "Snake Oil" salesmen back in the day weren't just interested in defrauding their customers, they wanted to do it with the least amount of effort. They didn't try to get authentic, high quality ingredients to make the oil look or taste better.  They used whatever was on-hand and as free as possible. Cable companies sure seem to go out of their way to acquire the best possible conductors and materials, and have R&D teams engineer complicated wire geometries and spend years finding ways to treat the cables, or develop active tech to impact the signal, just so they can make a few bucks. If the product had absolutely no impact on sound quality, at all,  it wouldn't take long for well-engineered systems to reveal their faults and the industry would tank, almost over night. Clearly, they haven't and it's because it isn't "Snake Oil" no matter how many times that old trope is trotted out.

One of the serious problems in this entire discussion is that the perception of "quality" is 100% subjective to the listener, the state of the equipment, the room it is being conducted in, and health of the listener. After years of auditioning my system to people, I realized it isn't a simple matter of asking, "How did that sound to you." You have to be very specific.  Ask, "Did you hear that specific sound?"  9 times out of 10, they'll say they didn't hear it.  So you play it again and point it out.  Then they light up and realize that no matter how many times they heard that song, they had never heard that particular sound.  Then they go and compare it to the car radio or through their device's ear buds and realize they cannot hear it or couldn't hear it as clear.  Then they come to respect what you're trying to achieve.




128x128guakus

Showing 20 responses by millercarbon

If it's not directional then how did it get from the dam to my house?  
Epic logic fail George. As usual.
No one remembers anything you say George. That is everyone telling you something.
The term is just plain insulting and serves mostly to let us know whoever is using it is not one to be taken seriously.   



Thank you OP for starting a discussion on how inaccurate misleading and harmful it is to use loaded terms like snake oil. Far better to stick to the subject and deal with things in a more forthright manner.

Unfortunately, look what we got instead:   

Nonsense: "since you claim nobody is fibbing" (which you never did).   
More nonsense: Quantum Tunneling, voltrabbits, audiophoolery, chest-pounding.
And of course:
Being the pathetic layman I was always meant to be,

So we did get that delicious little slice of reality. Not a total loss after all.
You will probably pick up on this guakas, but it helps to realize some here never will bother to try and understand what you are saying. They already have their canned arguments ready to go and roll them out no matter what.

So case in point you go to the trouble of explaining Quantum Tunneling is a process used by Synergistic Research, this is ignored in order to drone on never learning a thing. It is exactly as if you had said Windows is software only to be presented with the totally irrelevant argument that no a window is a hole in a wall filled with panes of glass. This happens all the time here with people talking past each other one never bothering to listen to the other.

Then there is the incessant bickering about minutia like voltage isn’t sent current blah blah yada yada. Every dodge under the sun is pulled out all to thwart any progress in understanding ever being made.

Quantum Tunneling, whatever is really going on, involves using a Tesla coil to zap extreme high voltage on the order of millions of volts through wire, a process that does seem to produce permanent changes. Don’t know why this should be so controversial, it is fundamentally no different than cryogenic treatment. I know at least one other person with a Tesla coil doing stuff like this.

Getting back to the subject at hand, whatever it does and however it works it clearly is not snake oil. It is just something certain people have a hard time understanding. Also probably something they have a hard time hearing. If they would even be willing to try.   

Uh oh. Doesn’t narrow it down much now does it? ;)
The logic is unassailable. See if you can follow it.   

The choice of dielectric has a big effect on sound. Why? Because no dielectric is perfect. What does that mean? The perfect dielectric would neither absorb nor release any electrical energy. None of them are perfect. They all are energized to some extent by the electric field around the signal. Then after the signal peak passes some of this energy is released back into the wire. This results in audible smearing.     

Okay, so one solid fact everyone should know.   

Next one, that logically follows from the first, every dielectric holds some amount of charge. We don't want this, it isn't perfect, but it does. The amount varies with some being better than others. They all do this to some degree however, or else otherwise they would be perfect, see?  

Now imagine a brand new cable. Signal comes along, charges the dielectric, bleeds back in smearing the signal. Bleeds back in at different rates. Starts out fast but then falls off as the charge dissipates. Just like everything else you ever seen your whole life.   

Think of a rock or piece of metal. Hit it with a blow torch it gets hot. Take away the torch, at first it is real hot but then cools off real fast at first, but then stays fairly warm for quite some time after that.  

Now imagine the rock was cold to begin with. More heat would go to warming the inside of the rock, at least at first. After a while you keep hitting it with the torch, taking it away, hitting it again, eventually the rock reaches thermal equilibrium. From that point on the radiation you feel on the outside becomes a lot more stable and consistent.  

Same thing happens with the dielectric. Takes a while but eventually it becomes electrically saturated and then performs much more consistently.  

It is not so terribly hard to understand now, is it?
I won’t.

Please read the discussions on learning to listen for new characteristics. Your inability to hear at all what others do easily is not evidence of us having mass delusion. It is evidence of your having a great big glaring gap in your listening skills. The discussions didn’t get far. Most who can’t hear are not only not interested in learning but worse, actively working to prevent others making progress. Please either learn to listen, or at least go and start your own discussions on your superior head firmly in sand approach to audio.


Music is subjective. Sound is objective. We can measure sound but not music.

Actually we don’t even know how to measure sound.

What we can measure pretty well is pressure waves in air. That is what decibels are by the way. Pressure waves. Not sound. The difference is sound is not a physical phenomena. We talk as if it is but clearly it is not. Sound is an experience.

I said it before, and it didn’t even come from me it came from Watts. A lot of puzzling paradoxes make sense once you see the world and the words for what they are. When a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? No. It vibrates air. That is all. You can use a microphone to record the vibrations. You can use a stereo to reproduce the vibrations. All you have done is moved the vibrations around. The vibrations only become sound when heard by an organism. Minus the organism it is all just atmospheric pressure waves. You by virtue of being this special organism evoke these qualities of sound and music out of an otherwise sterile lifeless universe.

Don’t ever short change the human being.
I just had an involuntary shudder of horror as I realized the full import of the coat hanger comment- he's using wire coat hangers! https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4?t=8
Really? I've not purchased a robot because they still have a ways to go perfecting the Scarlett Johansson.
Hey look, I assume nothing. You literally said yourself you can’t hear.
Frankly, I’m being generous. I heard no difference

Your words not mine. Which is fine. I have said many, many times I believe people when they say they can’t hear a difference. I believe you.

Where I have to say "not fine" though is when you pull your hypocritical "attitude" attack!

I hope you guys are being paid handsomely by the cable manufacturers for all the hard work ya’all put into trying to sell this stuff to us.


This is NOT fine! YOU said YOU can’t hear. All I said is I believe you. I never accused you of being a paid shill. I never said you are faking it. I never tried to sell you anything, nor has anyone else. Also never made any attacks disparaging you personally. Even though, as one might say, there is plenty of material to work with!   

I think the evidence shows you are the one needs to give the attitude a rest.


Not so fast. unreceiveddogma insults all of us as shills, saying
I hope you guys are being paid handsomely by the cable manufacturers for all the hard work ya’all put into trying to sell this stuff to us. 

Nobody is selling anything. He doesn't even try to show where we are, just throws his insults out there as something known to be true simply because it gets repeated. There's a word for that. Dogma, I believe it is.

unreceiveddogma owes us all an apology. Not just me. Read what he said. "I hope you guys are being paid handsomely". You guys. All of us who hear and understand the value of quality cables, he's calling us all shills.


Sacrilege! Heretic! Beyond the pale! We need to keep the forum free for the usual parroting and blather. Please try and keep the cogent thought to yourself. Thank you.
We may not have a precise definition of Snake Oil, but as one Supreme Court justice said, "I know it when I see it."  https://youtu.be/hlOhlY7EoEU?t=17
@millercarbon

Don't you mean, "I'll know it when I hear it." ;)


See it. Actual bona fide 100% pure snake oil. Nothing else even comes close.  https://youtu.be/eA1FBghmr_A?t=47
They carry weasel grease at Ernst, only 3 miles as the crow flies. Don't have much use for it right now but might just have to squirrel some away if I can ferret out what it is.
More likely you just never noticed. The two most common fuse locations are near invisible or even impossible to see. Near invisible: look real close at the IEC connector socket. Either above or below will be a very small rectangle with writing it typically requires a flashlight to read. These have a tiny little tab or slot you can pry open with a small screwdriver. These all use the small size fuse.  

If you don't see that then the fuse will be inside. Remove the cover, look near where AC power comes in. It will be there. At least one. Take it to the bank. Cash the check. Spend the money.
There is a market because there are people willing to pay for the sort of really good sound quality fuses deliver. Yes it really is that simple.