The shocking truth about speakers


The problem we have in the hifi community is that nobody knows how close we are to achieving perfect sound. This is the shocking truth that is in stark contrast to the belief that modern speakers are state of the art. 

The reason we are in this mess is because speaker design is based on two methods. One is listening and the other is measurements. Listening doesnt work because nobody has perfect hearing and in fact some are even completely tone deaf. Measurements also dont work because we only have the technology to measure some but not all of what needs to be measured. 

As a result, the speakers on the market could actually be horribly wrong if we could compare them to the perfect speaker if it existed. 

We cannot assume that we are close to perfection. Theres no evidence. 

The fact that speakers all sound vastly different indicates that nobody has the faintest idea what we are trying to achieve. 

The shocking truth about the speaker industry is that there is a lot of information that is contained within your favorite music tracks that you are being denied the ability to enjoy all because speaker design is wrong. It is a terrible injustice that needs to be exposed. 
kenjit

Showing 26 responses by kenjit

I dont care whether its single full range or multiple drivers, the fact is nobody has the faintest idea. What are we using to decide how good the end result is? We are using our ears. They are not reliable. 
It is only you kenjit, all the rest of us are enjoying our systems.
All audiophiles do want perfect sound and every speaker company thinks their design is the best and every audiophile thinks their choice of speaker is correct.
Nobody knows what true sound is. Why is that not a problem? We should NOT be enjoying a speaker if its lying to us. That is NOT what this hobby is all about.
You, just like many others are in denial and that is part of the problem.
And yet in most of your other inane threads your repeatedly contended that speakers needed to be tuned to each individual's ears.
I am assuming that most audiophiles want the best possible sound from their speakers. If thats not the case obviously none of what i say applies to you. 
What I pointed out was your self contradiction 1)"speakers should be tuned to each individual's ears" ; 2) "we are using our ears they are unreliable".

There is no contradiction because these two statements are referring to different things. There is justification for custom tuning because it gives the consumer the benefit of letting them decide what they get rather than letting the designer decide. However in the end hearing is unreliable because we are all just guessing and its all just preference. The music contained on our favorite cds is information that can either be reproduced exactly or it can be altered by the speaker by changing the stereo imaging, the dynamics, the bass level or tone balance. There is no room for preferences its either right or wrong. The problem we have is nobody has the faintest idea how close we are or not. It is criminal that we are being denied the right to hear the truth and that many audiophiles are unconcerned, yet we continue to be duped into thinking speakers are getting better when theres no evidence for that. 
But your idea of there being some perfect objective standard of right or wrong is deeply, deeply flawed. There is no perfect objective standard.
The perfect standard is whatever is on the cd. How can there be multiple variations of reproduction of one single music track? If theres one track there should be one perfect reproduction of it. 
How wrong you are dave_b. I don't need live recordings whatsoever because my marvelous hearing can tell you whats right and wrong with your speakers that most audiophiles would be oblivious to. If your speakers are too forward, bright, edgy, thin or cold i can tell you that right away. Can other audiophiles do that?

Its shocking how so many of you call yourselves audiophiles yet you are indifferent about how good or bad the quality of your speakers are. This attitude is a disservice to the true audiophile comunity of super audiophiles such as myself. We strive for perfection not mediocrity. I dont want to hear remarks such as "just buy what sounds nice to you" What hogwash. 

Theres too much approval on this forum and not enough criticism. Thats another indication of your mediocrity. 99% of speakers out there are hogwash. 
The main reference point which audiophiles use to assess how good or bad their speakers are is price. If they have bought a cheap speaker, according to them its not as good as a more expensive one. Audiophiles are a bunch of audiofools. 
@facten you are a complete contradiction. you just said 
Since you haven't heard it think whatever you like.
Doesnt the same apply to you about my system? 
I am both proud of my hearing ability and angry at the audiophile community who I wish had as good if not better hearing as mine. My goal is perfection. 

@facten 

Ive been in rooms like yours which are big open and untreated, (store demos for example). You have got it all wrong facten. 
I claim to be good at hearing problems with speakers. There is no audiology test for that. 
It never fails with the hobby of HiFi and music, differences of opinions will clash. Same can be said about the ' perfect sound'
There are no opinions. Only facts. There is only one perfect speaker. Obviously it doesn't exist in reality but only in theory. 
What part of that dont you understand?
@pickindoug You need to reread my post. You have obviously misunderstood it. 

Now lets see if you can solve this riddle.

There are two speakers. One is a Magico. Doesnt matter which model. The other is a B&w 607 entry level speaker. 

Now, no backpedaling. All audiophiles know and claim that a Magico costing tens of thousands of bucks is better than the b&w 607 which costs a few hundred bucks. 

Can you prove it? Can you solve the riddle??

7-10 feet is the optimum distance for proper stereo imaging,
ive heard brilliant imaging from far less than that. So thats not true. 

What kind of sound signature do you like? Do you even know what that sound signature is?

I like no sound signature. That is my requirement. Ideally it should be perfectly neutral. 

A lot of the best hifi speakers are actually quite tilted up and down. Its like a roller coaster

If you think thats all there is to it, just buy any speaker and an EQ. Then you can have the sound of any speaker you like by using EQ.
A kenjit is a connoisseur of perfect sound quality. 

He has travelled far and wide to hear the best that the industry has to offer. He has visited many high end stores and hifi exhibitions. 
He has heard the finest speakers that the best speaker engineers can create. 
Despite this, kenjit remains unsatisfied. Kenjit is a perfectionist. He will not tolerate anything less than perfection. The speaker engineers have got it wrong and made a mistake. Kenjit is furious that we are being duped. A kenjit is a perfect example of an audiophile. Every audiophile worth their salt must take a leaf out of my book. 

Kenjit will be remembered as the greatest and most discriminating audiophile within the entire community of audiophiles on the planet. 
@bryhifi 

NPD Symptoms

Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder, according to the DSM-5, exhibit five or more of the following, which are present by early adulthood and across contexts:

- A grandiose sense of self-importance.
- Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
- Belief that one is special and can only be understood by or associate with special people or institutions.
- A need for excessive admiration.
- A sense of entitlement (to special treatment).
- Exploitation of others.
- A lack of empathy.
- Envy of others or the belief that one is the object of envy.
- Arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes.
This could apply to a lot of people especially speaker designers. So whats your point?

Every speaker designer likes to think his design is a cut above the rest. Every speaker designer will claim that their design is unique special, different and superior. Excessive admiration is the name of the game for speaker designers. They love it. 
Exploitation of ideas happens a lot too i would imagine. Most designs are based on pre existing technology. 

Im sure many speaker designers will say nasty things about their competitors while secretly feeling envious of them. Arrogance is pretty much typical of all speaker designers and companies. How dare they think that they can tune a speaker to their ears and expect it to satisfy the majority of audiophiles. That is pure arrogance right there. 
I think you'll find that its easier to categorize people WITHOUT these characteristics as there are far fewer of them. 
Finally, an admission about yourself since you are the self described
But I argue in favor of custom tuning to each persons ears. Most other speaker designers do not. That is a big difference. 
Duh... isn't that essentially what happens when people choose the speakers they believe sounds the best ?
Do you think your trousers are custom made to your exact measurements just because you got to choose the nearest size to your measurements when you bought them?
well if you lose a bit of the high frequencies then yes you try to compensate for it. Thats how hearing aids work however you can do it within the speakers too. 

There is no fixed frequency response that suits every persons ears, every room, every recording and forever. We need flexibility. 
Many studio monitors with dsp already have eq for this reason. Do not underestimate custom tuning. Ignore it at your peril.
You can't just play with the frequency response and correct a room or match a speaker to a room.
I didnt say you could. You seem to be suggesting that equalization is not needed regardless of the reason. That is exactly what I disagree with. 
No not tone controls. You need a graphic equalizer. Most audiophiles deliberately avoid using one though and thats the mistake. Why allow the speaker designer to choose what Eq setting you want? It cant be changed and it probably wont suit your requirements. Its also wrong to adjust the EQ using a passive crossover. A crossover is not an EQ. 
what methods do you employ to custom tune the speaker itself to your customer's desired outcome?
It could involve nothing more than tweaking the on axis frequency response all the way up to custom tuning the cumulative spectral delay and the entire off axis response. 
So, Mr, Super File, you say an equalizer is needed to custom adjust a speaker to one's ears?
Obviously. Its no different from going to a live concert and trying to find the best seat for YOUR ears. 
And where do you make these adjustments , your "engineering studio", your "clients" home/room?
i dont have any clients. I do this as a hobby. 
This guy is a troll
That is the worst argument you could give to challenge any of my points. 

If you disagree with anything I've said, you will have to come up with something better than calling me a troll.