The Outlaw ruins X-mas

So my little brother wanted an AV receiver for X-mas, and I'm doing well so I figure OK, I'll order one from Outlaw Audio and he'll be set.

Ordered 12/7. then, nothing.

1 wk later 12/13, they phoned me and tell me they cannot have a ship-to address different than a bill-to address. so once that's updated, I expect prompt shipment.


phone'd them today, and they still haven't shipped. so, there's no way that the unit that I ordered on 12/7 will arrive on time, unless I want to spend $100 on 2-day air.

that's what you call Poor Customer Service. and lets not forget the fact that I'm screwed on getting my brother a gift now.

just thought you should know. i'd personally trust A-gon members w/ good feedback selling used more than that company selling new.

Man that sucks. I think they should up it to 2-day air and eat at least half the extra cost, if not all. That would be what I would do if I were running the company anyway. Hope something like that works out for you.

Outlaw Audio...sounds like a Grinch name to me. :-)

Cut Outlaw some slack. They have had a hell of a year this year with the factory that they use to build its RR2150 receiver using bad parts and then, the factory backed out of its agreements to supply receivers. Outlaw found a new factory and made good on every RR 2150 receiver and replaced them with new stock. They take customer service and goodwill very seriously.

Try opening up a request with Customer Support or phoning Scott directly. He may work something out.

Regards, Rich
I tried working directly w/ Scott. I was told that 2 day air, he'd offer $40, and I'd be liable for $90.

now, these are the facts:
1) i never received notice that my order wasn't filled until 12/13. that's not my fault--its theirs. the fact that it wasn't coming until after x-mas is, again, not my fault. its theirs.
2) i just bought a denon 3806 from Mass. w/ 2-day air for $70 shipping. so, $130 for 2day for the Outlaw, vs $70 for 2-day for the denon. hmmmmm.

makes me wonder how much "customer service" i'd receive if my brother got a lemon.

there was one acceptable answer to this: "Mr. Rhyno, you obviously did everything poss to get the unit before x-mas, and we're sorry we've compromised that. We'll pick up 2-day shipping so you can have it in time."

That's what I'd do. And that's what you'd want to be done for you too.

I'm not sure they deserve any slack. All companies have to deal with vendor problems, and other problems of all sort. That goes with running a business. Some just know how to fulfill orders better than what Rhyno experienced. I'd be angry too, and justified IMHO.
Wow an audio company that is late on shipping....say it aint so! Be glad it isnt gonna be another month, in this hobby it happens all the time.
Sounds like an omen to me. Cancel the order and find something equivilant locally. This may be a prelude to bad service should a problem arise.
I agree - it looks like they just dropped the ball and should step up and make it right.

Maybe you should cancel your order and give your business to another company. That is the best way to show your unhappiness.
I like Outlaw's factory direct approach and their reasonable prices. All of that is admirable. But, you always have to do the right thing by the customer, period. The goodwill they could have gotten by picking up the shipping tab would have been worth a hundredfold versus the negative vibe they will get from Scrooging/Grinching a customer.

Sorry, but in my book, this is bad business.
FWIW I agree with Rich, yes, it would be nice for them to cover the shipping, but understand a company like Outlaw runs on pretty tight margins, thus why they can sell good gear so cheaply.

As far as getting you brother his gift by Christmas, heck, my brother and I haven't gotten each others gifts to the other more than once in the last ten years, tell your brother it's on it's way and give him a nice card, and maybe something small to open, or put a picture of the receiver in a box so he knows what he's getting...... We don't even go that far, last year my brothers X-mas gift got here un June!!!
I ordered a Wire World hdmi form a very prominent seller,here--on Nov 15. The card was charged last month. This prominent dealer never checked on the status;not even once. Never responded to email--At this time of the order I was told 3/4 days and then it would be drop shipped.I called Wireworld and they wouldn't give me buttkis. I gathered they don't speak to end users,and how dare me.
I sympathize with your plight. It is disappointing to have a present arrive late. I do have a question, though. When you ordered the receiver, did you notice the paragraph on the credit card payment screen? Where they warn you that if the "ship to" address is different from the "billing address" you must have the "ship to" address registered with your credit card company? Make sure to call the credit card company before you order? I'm sure everyone understands the need for that precaution by any on-line vender.
I agree with Mitch. Outlaw's success is based on taking care of the people who deal with them, who are free to buy from any number of outlets. Selling good product cheap is secondary in my view but the customer always comes first, if you want to keep that person as a customer. And please define "factory-direct" if Outlaw uses a third party entity for their products. Sounds more like factory-indirect, and please go to the top of this thread for more on that. I sincerely hope Rhyno gets some satisfaction, from Outlaw or elsewhere.

BTW, I believe AMC uses a third party builder for their products and they've had some success in this arena.

Here's what really happened...

1) Customer did not follow the agreed to shipping requirements outlined on the order form.

2) We emailed him on the day the order was received to inform him of the change he needed to make. (Eventually he would claim that he never received this-and ultimately was unwilling to figure out why despite my offer to send him the contact email with full headers included.)

3) When he did not reply within three business days, we called him to query him on his intentions.

4) He made the required change on the following business day.

5) On that day we were able to confirm the changes and initiate the order.

6) As indicated on the order form, we require 3-5 business days for processing and fulfillment once the necessary order information is received.

7) While we often ship with 1-2 business days, with B-stock products we typically need the full 3-5 business days(especially at this time of year) to put the unit through a full Q.C. check.

8) On the day of the scheduled shipment (within our previously stated and agreed upon window), the customer called demanding we pickup expedited shipping.

9) Despite the fact that these delays were NOT our responsibility, I agreed to meet him half way and charge him only 50% of the express delivery charge (which was $120, not the $90/$100 mentioned in his posts) as I was willing to pick up the other half of the added cost. I made this gesture despite his rude behavior directed at one of our order processors.

That wasn't satisfactory to him and he cancelled the order.

Can't please everybody...

Scott Jackson
Outlaw Audio
. . . and now we have the REST of the story.

thanks for weighing in Scott. By the way, as a shopper, I think the practice of requiring ship to be the same as billing is a bad practice. I understand it's common, but I usually will not buy gifts from vendors who do it. All could have been avoided here if there was an accommodation.

Thank you for the details. There is always more to the story. Outlaw has always done very well by me. I am glad Scott stepped in and posted his reply. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Go whine somewhere else.
Bdgregory -

As I read it, on their credit card payment screen, they do not require that ship-to and bill-to match. But if they are different, they require you to register the ship-to address with the credit card company. So in the case of this vendor they would be making the accomodation you desire?
>By the way, as a shopper, I think the practice of requiring ship to be the same as billing is a bad practice<

I agree. This would make it impossible to buy a gift for someone and have it shipped directly to them. A scenario I could see being pretty common.

again, scott, these are facts:
1) i didn't get the email. period. the fact that I don't care about reviewing a log is indicative of me being busy as hell during the day and wanting to get to the point: in this case, whether I'm doing business w/ you or not.
2) when you phoned me (6 days later), you got prompt clarification on the Credit card ship-to info. again, this is indicative of my good faith on executing the purchase, which only goes to support my contention that i NEVER received one email from you about a problem.
3) when you received the CC resolution, it still took another 3 days, and i had to call YOU on monday at noon, as the messages(!) i left to your company's VM were unreturned at that time (and x-mas keeps getting closer). and had i not and simply relied on your operation to send things promptly, i'd have been completely screwed for x-mas.
4) i got a denon shipped from NJ (mistake earlier, it wasn't MS, that's where Outlaw is) for $70 2-day, and you "offered" to pick up $20 plus the original cost for ground that was bundled into purchase price, for shipping that you quoted as $120+? again, NJ isn't that far from MS, care to explain the $50 delta???

I gave you a chance to remedy this when i told you that you should pick up 2-day. you refused. that's your choice. this thread was my choice. and i stand by everything i wrote (check my feedback on how much customer service i give to those who buy from me).

hope it was worth it to you.

I think that requiring that the ship to address be registered with the CC Company is a good idea. It's another layer of protection between you and a potential credit card thief. A few months ago, someone used my CC to purchase a 50" plasma from If I had not received a confirmation email from Target, I would not have known until I got my statement. It was being shipped to an address different than the billing address.
For those who think shipping only to the billing address is a bad policy, probable haven't figured out that this practice only exists because of fraudulent credit cards use.

I have a feeling these same people would be the first to cry bloody murder if their credit cards were fraudulently used because such limitations didn't exist.

Unfortunately, we all pay the price for the criminal acts of a the few.

Seems Outlaw has you trumped, I noticed you neglected to tell us you were buying B-Stock and demnding Class A service, during the holiday season. Sorry it didn't work for you, but I suspect the email did come through, and you, as I have done likely deleted it as just another confirmation email and then later were behind the 8 ball so to speak....
A correction to my earlier post ...

In re-reading my post, I didn't mean to give the impression that Outlaw had to replace all its RR2150 receivers. My receiver was from one of the first production runs and it developed problems after about 6 months. Outlaw offered me a replacement on the spot. I did need to wait though until new stock came in, as the original factory had been "fired" as they couldn't keep up with demand. The new receiver has been in use for about 3 months now, is problem free, and sees daily use.

I felt that Outlaw handled my issue in a professional way and showed not only its faith in its product, but also in wanting to keep me as a customer.

Regards, Rich
Ouch! I just ordered two Marantz recievers on Monday and I received them via Fed-X the next day. I paid nothing for shipping and they came from nearly 300 miles away. I know that might not be as far as your shipment had to travel. But, I sure would think they could have done more for you.
As I read it, on their credit card payment screen, they do not require that ship-to and bill-to match. But if they are different, they require you to register the ship-to address with the credit card company. So in the case of this vendor they would be making the accomodation you desire?

sorry - I didn't read their policy statement (tisk, tisk, tisk), and it certainly is an accommodation. I'm not sure how complicated it is to register additional addresses with the credit card company, but if it's reasonably painless I think it's a good solution for all.

Getheleadout - I completely understand the rationale for the practice, and appreciate it's for me, but there needs to be a secure method to permit gift selling (which they apparently have offered). Again, shame on me for not realizing it. My reference was another vendor.
I agree with Outlaw, you can't please everybody.