The Miller Carbon Story


Had a real nice conversation this morning with Origin Live’s Mark Baker. Mark makes some of the very best turntables on the planet and I was interested to learn more. This was our first conversation and so he was interested in me as well. This reminded me of others who have asked.   

The following story is only superficially about the Miller Carbon. The larger and I would say more important subtext is you can do it too! Please dear reader note the number of times something was tried not knowing whether or not it would work. Like all things in life: The more things you try and the more effort you put into it the better you get at it.


The Miller Carbon Story

My first turntable was a Technics SL-1700 with Stanton 681-EEE. It was 1976. Still have that turntable, anyone can see it, right there on my system page.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367. Rack on the right. Bottom shelf.  

Next, after college, came the Listening Room and with it a new turntable. This was way before the internet. All we had was Stereophile On Dead Tree. After reading all the reviews it came down to a VPI package or Basis/Graham. What to do? Cast your mind back, way back, to the primitive past. I faxed my question to Stereophile.  

Michael Fremer called me back!   

The Basis/Graham was my own decision. Fremer didn’t talk me into anything. Quite the opposite. He was a source of much useful information that helped me make up my own mind. So it was that I learned early on from Michael Fremer what it is that a reviewer really is supposed to do: provide the reader with the information they need to make their own informed decision.  

My first high end mod was to remove the cheap rubber power cord from the Basis motor and replace it with an inexpensive power cord. Cheap, but proven to be better than all the freebie PCs and I wanted to find out if it made any difference on a turntable motor.  

It did! Same exact improvements heard on the other components it had been tried on before. How or why, who knows, but I heard it. Other mods followed. Different belt materials were used. Silk, cotton, floss. Each had its own influence on the sound. Fascinating!  

This was all part of the process of investigating turntable performance in order to upgrade. Easy to read about different materials, mass, motors, bearings- but what does it all mean in the real world? This was my way of figuring it out for myself.  

Teres Audio seemed to be the value leader. A complete turntable was too expensive, but the motor could be added to the Basis with only a slight modification for the speed sensor. When this worked out extremely well it gave me the confidence to go for the platter and bearing.  

But what about the plinth? Around this time I was working with DJ Casser and his Black Diamond Racing Shelf. His Shelf material was so much more effective than acrylic, it had to make a better plinth too. After a good deal more planning a BDR Source Shelf was cut into a unique sort of egg shape. Another piece was cut 4” diameter, drilled and tapped to be used as the nut to hold the bearing. Two more pieces about 3 inches in diameter were cut and stacked to make the tone arm mount. Three Round Things with Cones were screwed into the bottom of the plinth. The Miller Carbon was born. http://www.teresaudio.com/fame/40.html



128x128millercarbon
mglik-
 For me, even an entry level TT rig surpasses digital.
Sure the relative SQ is low but the physicality of the vibration of the stylus is an organic sound.

Same here. The story has been told before so was skipped above but the Tehnics SL1700 was in a box in storage for several years- which just happened to be the critical years when CD first came out and replaced LP. So by the time the listening room was being built the assumption was there would be no LP. When Robert Harley said the turntable is the foundation of a high end system it was hard to believe.

But this being RH we had to be sure so the Technics was dug out and hooked up and we were blown away to hear it blow away a much more expensive and modern CDP from California Audio Labs. We in this case being literal not royal, the wife was with blown away as well.

But this was well before the birth of the Miller Carbon. Before even it was conceived. Call it a first date. Just enough to get me hot to go all the way.

Some years after battery power Chris came out with his Verus motor and controller upgrade. The Verus also involved a change from belt to rim drive. This is the motor that can be seen on my system page. It uses a wheel with a notch machined into it, into which an O-ring fits. The motor and feet are designed so the weight of the motor leans the rim drive against the platter.

This works, and is an improvement, but also has all kinds of drawbacks. The main one being O-rings all have a little seam or edge that sticks out right where it touches the platter. The trick is to set the motor up away from the turntable but as if it were being used, only with a piece of fine grit sand paper in place of a platter. Run the motor against the sandpaper like this and after a while it winds up nice and smooth.

Not perfect but a big improvement over the original motor pod setup. Also another opportunity to tweak and compare and learn the impact and influence of every little thing.
Dearb @mglik  : ""  For me, even an entry level TT rig surpasses digital : ""

I respect your subjective opinion where no one can argue against it.

Can I ask your non-subjective facts/true foundation for that personal opinion ?


R.
Post removed 
The first arm used on the Miller Carbon was the Graham 2.0, with a Benz Micro Glider. Then the Graham was upgraded to 2.2 with the new more massive knob that holds the point the arm pivots on. There was also a different weight silicone fluid as I recall.   

This was a fairly minor upgrade, not really worth the money frankly, although maybe so because back then it was still pretty exciting to hear such simple things make any difference at all. So, more learning: Even something as seemingly minor as the viscosity of a few drops of silicone does make a difference you can hear.  

This also was a change to the arm itself. Lots of people ask what does what, how much does it matter, and so on. Well, we learn by doing.  

Eventually the Glider was replaced with Benz Ruby. A clear case of the same only better. Which was exactly what was wanted. Wasn't looking to change. Just looking for more of the same, only better. 

The same Graham arm had now been used on two different turntables, Basis and Teres, or more if counting by the mods made to the tables while the arm remained the same. But those two tables anyway.  

The Graham requires an interconnect. Experience with this led to questioning the wisdom of all those extra connections. The Graham had cartridge pins, wand contacts, DIN connector, RCA to phono stage. Each one of those connections is also a solder joint. So add them all up: 11 connections! Compared to only 4 or 5 if the arm is hard wired.  

Cartridge output is exceedingly faint and fragile. All these connections cannot possibly be good. Yeah sure Ted Denney had made me some custom phono interconnects and they were mighty fine. But, still....  

So we wound up with the next big upgrade, the arm that is on there now, the Origin Live Conqueror.  

This was easily the biggest single upgrade yet! The cost increase, once factoring in the interconnect which we have to do to be fair, was not that much. But the performance improvement sure was! This was not just an upgrade. From Glider to Ruby was an upgrade. The motor stuff was upgrades. This was something entirely different. This was another realm.  

larry5729, you were asking about the cartridge? Now you have your answer: nope! A good arm is a greater upgrade than any cartridge. Dollar for dollar, put your money into a good arm. 

This was proven yet again later on when the Ruby was replaced with Koetsu Black Goldline. Yes indeed the Koetsu is a fine cartridge. Wonderful! Fricken love that thing! Totally. But really, it was just another upgrade. A nice one to be sure. Have we mentioned how much we love our Koetsu??! But where the arm was transformative, the cartridge was merely evolutionary.   

Always hard to objectively compare these things. Put it this way. The Graham 2.2 with Ted Denney custom IC and Koetsu, against the Conqueror with Benz Ruby, are pretty darn close in total cost. Just don't see anyone listening to them side by side picking the Koetsu. Not on that arm. Seriously doubt it would even be necessary to mount the Ruby. Probably everyone would pick the Glider on the Conqueror.  

The arm makes that much difference. When it is a good arm.  


@rauliruegas,
My question in this thread was more rhetorical in nature. I was simply stating I'm very happy with where I currently am with my system. I've make some minor tweaks along the way, but as I said, not sure what I'd change at the moment. Adding 1-2% improvement doesn't matter to me, diminishing returns for $1000's I'd rather invest elsewhere. I enjoyed what the OP (millercarbon) had to contribute, he obviously looks at every angle, which for him works and he enjoys taking his path. For me, that approach wouldn't work, but nonetheless I like reading about other people's perspectives and approaches. 

The rest of what you said in response to me was rambling, not sure what your point was. Also, if you need to read through previous posts of what people wrote to make a counterpoint, I'd suggest getting yourself another hobby in addition to music. Enjoy your tunes!