The issue of lowballing... What does that mean?

I LOVE Audiogon. I have purchased and sold many items here and it is a wonderful resource for audio nuts of every variety. Big solid state, tubes, analog, vinyl? Sure it all goes.

So I see posts that are make offer but the seller says "lowballers" will be ignored, vilified, cursed and cussed. So why have a make offer sale? Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter what you paid for it, or how much you love it. And why be upset? Declining requires one mouse click. Countering maybe five or six clicks or keystrokes. Just curious as this is a commerce site.

I have received offers that seemed really low to me, but I am still happy to have interest and I always counter offer. I recently sold a Clearaudio TT for a lot less than I thought it was worth. But all the offers were low and I had to rethink my view. It ultimately sold as a real bargin but I'm happy and so is the buyer.

Your thoughts?
Sounds like you have an open mind about it. I too don't understand why some people say "lowballers will be ignored" or something to that effect, because they might just be testing the waters to see how you'll respond. Oh well...
04-06-13: Michael457
I don't particularly care for lowballing, but I also recognize that it is in the nature of all of us to try to
get a desired piece of audio equipment for significantly
less than the seller's asking price. It is also true that some seller's when they list an item have no idea of establishing a realistic selling price. If I am the bidder I do try to make my low bids realistic. If I am the seller, I reply to reasonable bids but seldom respond to offers that are obsurdly low.
Why would a lowballer care if a seller states that they will be ignored? An offer a bit lower is one thing, but lowballers are bums. They should practice their skills in stores in a live situation. I just sold a custom pool cue for 1200.00 on the bay. It was listed for 1299.00 and I was offered 1200.00 so I sold it and shipped it the same day. The buyer is very happy with it. I was also offered 1150.00 and less by lowballers, so I offered the cue to them at 1400.00 or higher. They got mad when they found out it was their time they were wasting.
"Lowballers are bums" I don't get it. Seriously, what is a lowball offer to you? Less 10%, 20%....? What defines a lowball offer?
Is offering a lower than asked amount offensive to you?
This lowball issue is very interesting to me and have yet to have anybody define what exactly a "lowball offer" is.
I have heard a lowball offer is substantially less but that is up to interpretation. So, someone please tell what defines a lowball offer!
Lowball offer= bums. When an item for sale is at a set price, that's the price the buyer wants. If you think it's too high, move on, you may be right. If it is fixed and states make offer, then offer a little less, don't insult the seller trying to get it for nothing. They will let you know if they are desperate to sell. You may as well ask "just exactly how much is a shitload"? How the Hell do I know?
What do you consider "a little less?" If you define lowballers as bums then you must define what a lowball offer is.
Do you pay the sticker price for a car?
its obvious that many individuals want to pay as little as possible when they buy and get as much as possible when they sell.

given "human nature", or whatever you want to call it, one would be better off to simply ignore an unacceptable offer, rather than let it affect them in a manner which may be deleterious to one's health.

i detect some anger management issues here.

getting angry in response to a low bid may be indicative of a psychological problem--perhaps an inflated ego.

the reaction to a low bid reminds me of people who complain about certain television shows. you don't have to watch them and you can overlook low bids without reacting to them.

calling people who present a low bid, dums, may be a sign of repressed hostility.n a bid on a piece of equipment is so trivial as not to warrant any vitriol.
Buy it now. 0% If I like the price I'll buy, if not, I'll walk away. Make offer 8-10% otherwise the item would be an auction. I've never paid sticker or retail for anything, I let the dealership know how much I can spend without financing and go from there. Even if I finance to get a lower sales price, I make one payment on the first bill and it's done. I don't like owing anyone for anything. You just have to walk away sometimes because sooner rather than later there will be another earth shattering sale on whatever. Lowballers still = bums.
I would say that when people make offers whether you call it a lowball offer or not they are just letting the seller know how much they are willing to spend. Just like you do at the car dealership.
Guess what? It may be they are stating what they can't spend. As far as I'm concerned buy a Benz or buy a VW, just don't waste my time trying to get something for nothing, or something you don't deserve financially.
Maybe your self worth is tied into your HiFi gear so offering less than what you are asking impacts how you feel about yourself....makes sense
04-10-13: Polk432
Buy it now. 0% If I like the price I'll buy, if not, I'll walk away. Make offer 8-10%
So if something is for sale for $1000 + shipping and someone offers $900 shipping included they are a bum?
If the price is buy it now 1000.00 plus shipping then that's the price. It doesen't say make offer. Offer 900.00 the price goes up to 1100.00 plus shipping. If you think the seller is that hard up, why offer 900.00 when you can offer 300.00 good luck getting it. I guess you think 10% off buy it now only makes the buyer a Hobo and not quite a Bum. Freakin' brilliant huh?
It has nothing to do with it at all. I'm not stupid, and don't let bums take advantage of me. Check out my feedback on here and ebay. I have no negatives or complaints and deal fairly. I just don't cave in when someone without the means makes offer because they feel that they are self entitled to have things they don't deserve, because they are pissed off that others have nice things. Maybe they think someone just gave the items to the seller, so if the seller never paid for the item, why should the lowballer pay a fair price? Lowballers = BUMS. It's easy, just have the money or butt out. There are lots of things I'd like, but I don't try lowballing because I don't have the means.
04-11-13: Polk432
If the price is buy it now 1000.00 plus shipping then that's the price. It doesn't say make offer.
You said in your post if it says make offer then 8% - 10% offer is OK. My example was below 10%, so according to you that guy is a bum.

One thing you may want to keep in mind is that many people who are very well off financially got that way (and stay that way) in part because they are financially very shrewd. I guess it depends on your definition of "bum."

btw: People who get emotionally involved in business transactions almost always lose.
I didn't retire at 49 for no reason. I'm all for a deal, but at realistic prices. Like I stated earlier, try that in retail stores in a live situation. Go ahead, make lower offers than the marked prices. Offer less at the gas pump, why not, you deserve the best regardless of whether you have the means or not. Why should you pay as much for something if you have less to spend than someone that does have? People that have money never sacrificed a thing to get that way, so why should you? Some stranger just walked up to me one day and handed me enough to retire on. Who knows, maybe he'll do the same for you tomorrow. People would be much better off financially if they realized that if you don't manage your money it'll manage you and the only other way you'll be financially stable is to win the lottery or turn to crime. I simply have no time for lowballing bums. Like I said, check my feedback on here or ebay. Numbers don't lie.
Your comment about financially well off people is spot on.
As for Polk432, you take low offes WAY to personal and that is evident by your comment about not caving in. You are also WAY off base with your comment about people lowballing (your definition) because they don't have the means...really. If you would rather spend $1000 for an item than pay $800 for it, well thats just.....silly.
Also, what does "deserving" have to to with dollars? Using your logic people that can't afford food don't deserve food. All I can say is wow..........
polk432, you have anger management issues.
I don't think Polk has issues at all. Maybe he, like me, is sick of the B.S. offers he gets. Even if I don't bother to reply, it's still an irritating waste of my time. Stop it already. You simply NEVER get anything that way, guaranteed.
Mrtennis, I simply speak the truth. Seems like you are the one with issues, or you don't mind someone trying to take advantage of you. Besides, everyone knows that this forum is just a joke with the exception of some technical guidance for those trying to fix their equipment without shipping it, unless it is absolutely necessary. Get well soon, and happy listening.
I think ill steer clear of buying from polk432 even if its being sold at a lowballing bums price.
+1 on the anger management.

Congratulations on retiring early. Don't waste it being mad at the world.
If I was mad at the world I wouldn't even bother with this silly blog. Really I'm laughing, and thanks for the advice. I think Mrtennis has a case of tennis elbow, but not from playing tennis. Happy listening.
Bg1968, you are the first prospect I've ever lost, and have every right not to buy from me. Sorry, but I never sell at lowball bum prices anyway, however if I ever do, you'll be the first to know. The lowball price will be firm though.
Zydo, thanks for being intelligent enough to understand. I've donated several items (not just electronics) to Childrens Hospitals when I couldn't get a fair offer on what I was selling. I may not have gotten anything by turning down lowballers, but a smile on someones face that has less than me means more. I'm far from rich, but I do what I can. Still, there are going to be a few out there that think I have issues. That's ok, I wish them no harm. Now, pay up or move to the back of the line.
Sebrof, get real. People that can't afford food aren't even on this site. Food is not a material item. I'm talking about dealing fairly with others. Go ahead, try to find one complaint here or on ebay with anyone I've ever bought from or sold to. Well, find any? You're just another complainer that can't stand anyone having something nicer than you have. If something is worth 800.00 I'll pay 800.00 if it's worth 1000.00 I'll pay 1000.00 if I don't feel the deal is worth it I simply move on. Maybe you (and a few other SPECIAL people on here) think you should only pay 175.00 for the 800.00 and 1000.00 items. It's your business if you want to be a lowballer (BUM) just don't bother me with it.
If this forum is as you call it, a "joke", Why do you bother to respond? BTW what does retiring at 49 have to do with anything here? If you have the time to post on this "silly blog" maybe you should go back to work!?
You have wasted more time commenting on this issue than you would have ignoring 100 "lowball" offers.
Orelayer, Zydo and I don't promote lowballers. Why stick up for them. Me going back to work wouldn't be fair to a person that needs a job. It would only add to list of lowball bums out there. There are plenty of buyers that understand the difference between buy it now, auction, and make offer.
"People that can't afford food are not on this site" my friend are a genius!
04-14-13: Polk432
Sebrof, get real. People that can't afford food aren't even on this site.
I never said anything about food.

My only point is that your assumption (the only reason a person would offer to buy at a low price is because he cannot afford the item) is wrong.
Sorry I meant Orelayer about food. Again, I will not back up lowballers. Like I said, let them try that at the gas pump, retail and grocery stores. If the sale is buy it now, the price is buy it now. If it is make offer, make one...just not lowball. You will not get the item, so please move on to an auction. I'm all for a good deal and set prices accordingly. Find a complaint on here or ebay as far as feedback goes from a buyer or a seller.
Your analogy regarding gas etc is way off base. Audiogon is not a retail store or any type of store for that matter. It is a forum to connect buyers and sellers "There are plenty of buyers that understand the difference between buy it now, auction, and make offer". Who is debating that?
"Find a complaint on here or ebay as far as feedback goes from a buyer or a seller". Not sure what that has to do with anything regarding this subject...? Quite frankly you really don't have many transaction on this site
Orelayer, compared to you I am a Genius. And also have the means not to ever be a lowballer. Stand up for winners, not losers. How often have you offered a seller more than the buy it now price when you felt they were not asking enough? I guess there will always be a few lowball losers on here, but there are a lot more people that know how to get a good deal without lowballing.
Polk432 you seem to be very "fair and balanced" fight on!
Orelayer, you are of course correct. I did waste more time typing my opinion than ignoring 100 "lowball" offers. The difference is, I chose to do so. When I get a prompt from Agon that says "buyer offer" I'm inclined to stop and read it. If its ridiculous, that wasted my time. I can't and won't even try, to define a lowball offer. That's impossible. Some sellers think everything they have is made of gold. An item that should be $2000 is listed for $2800. (just an example) in that case, an offer of $1800 might realistically be acceptable. On the other hand, say I list something at $2000, and it normally goes around $2200. If an offer of $300 comes in, what would you call it? I don't think I have to explain. I don't have any problem with offers. I've made many deals that started that way. All I can say is that if you make an offer, I assume, you know about what its worth. If your price is realistic, we open a dialogue. I may take your offer right off the bat, it depends. No one can put into words, much less a % of the asking price, what a "lowball" offer is. I know it when I see it. They know it when they make it. I can honestly say, I don't know of anyone that has ever bought anything on this site making a crazy low offer. I usually try to get something for a little less, most people do. Nothing wrong with that at all. All these deals start somewhere. REALISTIC is the key word.

Wow, just look at the time I've wasted typing this. The next 500 "lowballs" will be ignored with a smile so I can get even.
Lowball-highball, If you don't like the offer decline it!
I do have 130 transactions on ebay. Agon is not a retail store or a store for lowballers either. My point is that they have to try to screw someone over to get something, and to me that makes them bums. I you want to be a lowballer, or support lowballers,or try to cheat someone that's your business, just keep moving and look elseware if it's something I'm selling. Not finding any complaints on here or ebay means that I know how to deal fairly with good people and not let a lowballer take advantage of me. Happy bidding.
I am in total agreement with your post. The problem arises when you try to define a lowball offer. Take Polk432 for example, to him making an offer of 8-10% less than asking price is "lowballing" My offers usually start at 25-30% less than asking price and work up from there. I consider it the art of negotiating.
What makes you think I do not "have the means?"
"Orelayer, compared to you I am a Genius" Do you walk sideways through doors?
I have 665 transactions on ebay without a complaint and 40 on this site....big deal. What does that prove? Using your logic, it means "I know how to deal fairly with good people and not let a lowballer take advantage of me." Whah...that bum offered me to little! He must be out to rip me off. That bad man is trying to take advantage of poor little me.
If you had the means you wouldn't lowball. No I don't walk sideways through doors, but I could probably follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you. I'm ok with a lower offer on a make offer, just not buy it now. Look for an auction if you're looking for something less, just don't get into a bidding war.
I'm not poor or little. As long as you don't have to cheat someone you're ok. I've never had a lowballer take advantage of me because nothing I ever sell is a fire sale. I'd never be stupid enought to have a lowball bum take advantage of me either. If you enjoy catering to lowballers then great. I just happen to be above it, that's all. Get well soon Orelayer.
"If you had the means you wouldn't lowball." That is by your definition of lowball and so wrong on so many levels.
You keep bringing up "buy it now" offers.. Why? Who is talking about that? You probably could get ahead of me in a revolving door...only you would be going in the wrong direction.
"Get well soon Orelayer" Thats the best you got?
Please explain why making a low offer is trying to cheat someone? People know what their gear is worth. If sellers want to sell for less you call that cheating someone? You seem to have an issue with thinking people are out to get you. It is a common theme in your posts regarding this issue
Retiring at 49 isn't exactly someone that took the wrong directions in life, like sticking up for lowballers. Keep right on defending lowballers, they are losers just like you. You can't win and you know it. You'll probably break something expensive (if you own anything expensive) before this blog is over. Enjoy your purchases, and whatever you do, don't spend all of your money in one place. Peace out. Hope you didn't get any dizzier than you are now while you were in that revolving door. I now return control of your mind.
No one is out to get me because I know what I'm doing. If sellers don't want to sell for less why should they. The buyer can make a lower offer on a make offer or try their luck in an auction if they want to. I recently sold a custom pool cue that was listed for 1299.00 I was offered 800.00 by a lowballer. He wanted the build sheet, cost sheet and other information, so I sent it to him. He became very upset when I explained that for 800.00 was not a fair price and that there was no way I'd sell it for that. I sent pics and he sent me some of some sticks he collected. It didn't sell and he kept emailing me, wasting my time and his. I relisted the cue for 999.00 to open and 1299.00 buy it now. I got an offer for 1200.00 so since I had no bids I told the buyer I'd relist it for 1200.00 buy it now. He bought it, and I shipped it that day. The buyer stated that it exceeded his expectations and is very happy with the deal. The cue was brand new, never chalked or shot with, removed from box for pics only and shipped in the case for added protection. The buyer is happy and it was a good deal for the both of us, but according to you, I should have sold it to the lowball bum, like an idiot. The lower offer the buyer made was reasonable not a lowball offer. Just have the means or butt out when it comes to buying from me. You seem to have a big problem paying a fair price for things, and seem to have self entitlement issues. See a doctor. Maybe you can lowball him for his charges. Get well soon.
Dear Polk432,
How sad you are. All you do is talk about yourself and try to defend yourself. I am just talking about the issue of "lowballing".. Retiring at 49 means ABSOLUTELY nothing. Why do insist on making this about you? Did you retire at 49 so you could live in your parents basement?
BTW Your sophomoric attempts at humor failed.
If a seller wants to sell for less... how can they cheat someone at a lower price? Unless it is not low enough for a lowballer, that's how, according to you. I own my own home on the Intercoastal waterway in Florida. I have no mtg. so maybe I got it by being a lowballer. BTW, how does your stereo sound. You know, the one in your parents basement? I even sold something on ebay for a lower price than I asked for and you're still not happy. If you can't get help here, get help somewhere. Get well soon Orelayer. Lowballers are bums.
"You seem to have a big problem paying a fair price for things, and seem to have self entitlement issues. See a doctor. Maybe you can lowball him for his charges. Get well soon."
I do not really care about your transactions. YOU DON"T SEEM TO GET IT!!
You have NO idea what I pay for things... Your attempts at justifying your contempt towards "lowballers" is amusing.
Nobody is telling you how or who to sell your precious gear.
My IQ has dropped significantly since this debate started with you so... goodbye, good luck and I hope your understanding of the written word takes a turn for the better...although I doubt it.
Im pretty sure no intellegence can be gained by allowing this thread to continue please close it so people don't become dumber for reading it.