I have had several, the last about 20 years ago. If you really want to hear them sing take the platter off and give it a tap. They really benefit from a good mat.
16 responses Add your response
A lot of tables have the same issue, and frankly, I'm not sure if it's a cause for real concern. Exciting a bell-mode resonance by balancing the platter on a finger and pinging it doesn't represent a condition that's going to be encountered while playing a record.
I sometimes think the whole dead-plastic-platter school of design has gone too far the other way; to me, those tables generally SOUND dead, as well.
That's a sweeping generality, and doesn't represent all cases. I'm just sayin'....
I have a TD-125, pretty much stock, and yeah, if you don't want the platter to ring, don't hit it with a hammer.
One thing I don't understand about Mr. Thornton's GORGEOUS rebuilds, is why he builds such a massive plinth. In a suspended deck, the table is decoupled from the plinth, so does it really matter how heavy the plinth is? I've never seen anyone re-plinth a Linn, which has the same basic suspension system.
An excellent question; I'll see if I can get Chris to respond to that.
My thought is that a more massive base is less likely to excite even a suspended sub-chassis. I could be wrong; it's been a long time since I had to work through equations in Dynamics class. ;->
Thanks for the comments, and thanks for reading.
he problem with a resonate platter is that it reflects the vibrations generated by the stylus tracing the groves. No one though this important when the 125 was designed but a better understanding of the micro dynamics of LP playback showed that it affected sound quality. This understanding led to both the non-resonate platter and the mats weights and clamps that have appeared over the last 30 or so years. The whole question remains open however as the current variety of attempts to deal with it attests. The Linn is designed as a total system where defects balance each other , it is either brilliant or high level Rube Goldberg depending on your point of view. It often sounds best placed on a flimsy table.The Thorens WILL benefit from a better plinth, as will most tables.
The arm-cartridge-platter system is yet another mechanical system in audio where one school of thought is to decouple everything, and another is to couple everything, to drain off energy. I think there are examples of each which work well, and make sense philosophically.
Yet another example where my answer to the question, "Which?"..is "both".
Hello all, First of all I would like to thank the numerous people who have expressed their continuous support and ongoing interest of our Thorens restorations and to Bill at Audiogon for submitting the Hub article. My work is merely the by product of a continuous passion and support of analog playback and my own personal interest in vinyl records. I'd say the toughest part of the entire restoration process is selling the turntables once they are finished! :) I would rather keep them all to myself but bills must be paid unfortunately.
Anyways, to address the question submitted by Jake4357; the massive plinth size on our current TD125/SME 3009 restoration serves dual purpose - to further decouple and isolate the main chassis and suspension from external vibrations (as Bill speculated) and for overall aesthetic appeal.
Lastly, we are currently working on our external website which will include detailed restoration pictures and descriptions of recent completed projects including: Lenco L75's, Technics SP10 MKII's and several vintage Thorens turntables.
Bear with me -- I'm a little dim -- but what I think you (Stanwal) are saying is that the stylus creates micro vibrations which a resonate platter amplifies and feeds back into the stylus?
So is the ultimate solution for a Thorens user to replace the platter with something acrylic? Assuming such a platter is even available? Or is a non-resonant mat sufficient?
That is exactly it. A good mat will help a lot. I use to sell several in the 80s, still have a Platter Matter somewhere. I am not as familiar with the ones today. I think they are probably better and I am sure they will cost more. TTWeights make some interesting ones and the carbon fiber ones look good if a little high. I doubt if a new platter would be cost effective VS treatment of existing one.
Yup. There are German specialists who make replacement, higher-grade platters for the TD-124, but I'm not aware of ones available for the 125 or 160. I can tell you that those pieces cost about as much as a whole restored table from Chris!
Larry at TTWeights does make fabulous mats and weights, as well as a remarkable megabuck table. The carbon mats from Austin Jackson at Boston Audio are an alternate route, beutifully made--but they're not carbon FIBER.
The joy(?) of audio: there's always SOMETHING that needs tweaking!
Thanks, all, for the comments.
This is the Carbon Fiber mat I meant;I have one of their CD mats.
Home > Analog Gear > Analog Accessories > Record Mats
Click for Larger Image
MILLENNIUM - CARBON FIBER RECORD MAT
Category: Record Mats
Ships on or before: Dec 14, 2009*
ADD TO WISHLIST
* All specified ship dates are estimates.
Customers Purchasing This Item Also Purchased:
VPI - CENTER WEIGHT
SHUNYATA - DARK FIELD...
CANNONBALL ADDERLEY -...
JOHN MAYALL - BLUESBR...
MILLENNIUM - CARBON FIBER RECORD MAT
Millennium's Incredible Platter/Record Mat Elevates the Performance of Any Turntable!
This incredible Carbon Fiber LP Platter Mat from Millennium Audio will elevate the performance of any turntable. Its very thin (3mm) and should not affect VTA. The supplied carbon fiber covered record cap acts like a mini record clamp. This carbon fiber mat will increase soundstage width and depth, improve bass response and separate instruments into their own space. Dynamics will improve and your noise floor will drop. Weve had great results on VPI, Rega, AVID, Clearaudio, Pro-Ject, Music Hall, Linn, Thorens, plus many more... and this mat will work on virtually any other deck out there. Our highest recommendation! 100% Money Back Guaranteed!
I had a Thorens TD125, stock version, with Grace 707 MkII arm many years ago( @1977). I bought a stock Linn turntable in 1979 and the sound was far superior. Chris' mods might bring it up to another level. I miss vinyl. I sold my Linn back in 2002 and regretted it ever since. My huge collection of vinyl is sitting in a mothball stage in a rack. What a waste of great music. I don't miss all the negatives, although mostly minor, from playing vinyl.
I first came across a Thorens TD160 MKI with TP16 tonearm at an estate sale, which after a restoration motivated me to jump start this whole endeavor. Never would I have dreamt the TD160 MKI would drastically improve sonically across the board over the stock form once the restoration and experimentation with stock tonearm rebuild/rewire, dampening, ect. was complete. But it did...
Sherod, let me assure you, if the TD 160 MKI and TD 125's performance was not drastically improved by the extensive modification and restoration process we undergo, then I would not waste my time. There is a ton of work put into these, they are very expensive to rebuild with the custom plinths and the restorations are also very time consuming. However, it just so happens where these models are concerned, along with the TD124, they are worth the investment.
People often ask in regards to our TD160 restorations, why do you restore only the TD160 MKI first series but not the later versions? The answer very simply is because the MKI TD160 were the best built of the 160 series and used the best bearings. The same bearing and sub platter/spindle in fact that their big brother, the TD125 MKII's used. Without a quality foundation to restore upon, none of these turntables could ever perform as well as they do.