The effect 60Hz Cycles on 50Hz SACD-PLayers


Hi Everyone: I am originally from Denmark, Europe, where 230V/50Hz is used in the Outlet. I have though recently moved to Ecuador, where they have 110V/60Hz. Now The Voltage is not a problem, since you can get Voltage Transformers/Stabilisers all over as well as have a certified electrician change the voltage from 110 to 220V in some or all sockets, depending on your individual wish, without any problem.

My problem is the Frequency 50 versus 60Hz. Now as far as I can deduct, My Mark Levinson Pre and power-amp will not be affected, since there on the back of the Pre (No. 28) says 220V and 50/60Hz and on the back of the Power-amps (No. 20.6) it says 210-240V and 47-400Hz. With these data, ingraved on the back, both should be in the clear as far as I can see. Now I can see, that the power-amps have been changed to 230V. This I can see, by looking down through the top-plate and down into the front print-board, where it says 230V. I cannot remember if it also says 50Hz, but I seriously doubt it, since it, as earlier mentioned, says 47-400Hz.

Now my newly purchased (from new) Luxman D-06 SACD-Player is another matter. it is definately a 230V/50Hz Machine, according to the note on the back of it. Now I have tried to read several forums here on Audiogon and elsewhere. Some say, that the cycles can burn the internal transformer of the Player, saying something to the effect of, that the current rises or something like that, I didn't quite understand it, to be honest. This problem, should though, as far as i could understand mostly if not always, be when you take a 60Hz apparatus to a 50Hz country and not so much, if at all, the other way around (My case). Others say, that since all CD and SACD-Players have DC-Motors, then the cycles does NOT affect the motors operating the SACD at all. What is true??? I have thought about buying a certain apparatus, which changes the cycles from 60 to 50Hz to plug in between the outlet-socket and the Luxman, but I've heard, that such devices are very costly ($600USD/Unit) and since my SACD-Player is the only apparatus, which is Firmly a 230V/50Hz Unit, then this is where I ask You Guys. Is it necessary for me to buy such a Cycle-changing unit, just for my SACD-Player, when all other unit are fine with 60Hz??? Some say, that it all depends on the quality of the parts used in general and the transformer in particular and if this is true, then there should be no problem, since I believe I can safely say, that Luxman are known for using High Quality Parts.


So my question to You All therefore is: Can my Luxman D-06 Stand The Muster of being fed with 60Hz??? Is it in such good quality, that it won't overheat or burn out the Transformer or any of the other parts inside??? Wil it affect It's Sound Quality??? Or is it Definately Necessary to buy such a Cycles-Change Apparatus for it to work properly and safely??? Will my warranty change, because I use 220V/60Hz instead of the specified 230V/50Hz???


I'd appreciate any and all comments to help me decide what to do.


Have a Great Audio Day All of You.


Sincerely Thomas.

ferrari365gtb
This problem, should though, as far as i could understand mostly if not always, be when you take a 60Hz apparatus to a 50Hz country and not so much, if at all, the other way around (My case). Others say, that since all CD and SACD-Players have DC-Motors, then the cycles does NOT affect the motors operating the SACD at all.
I believe that both of those statements are true. Also, I believe that all European countries have 50 Hz AC, so I suspect the reason that 60 Hz wasn't indicated on your unit is simply that the European market it was intended for doesn't use 60 Hz.

If so, as far as the warranty is concerned the use of 60 Hz would not be a justifiable reason for a manufacturer to deny coverage. Although I would imagine that there are some manufacturers who might use it as an excuse and deny coverage anyway.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
 

Hi almarg:


Many Thanks for you comment and for trying to reasure me. I've seen it that way, the part that, the manufactures simply put 50hz on European products, because they're meant for the european market. You could be right, but I do think though, that they are genuine information, Like for instance "Don't put your cat in the microwave" kind of thing, so that they free from liability, should you do something stupid. Now that doesn't necessarily mean, that the make and insert different transformers for 50 and 50hz Versions. It could be, to save money and fuss, they just make ONE, which can take both frequencies, but this is kind of what i need to know. I need to know, that their transformer and the rest of the parts inside can take both frequencies, without any harm done to them. I'll probably have to contact Luxman themselves, but they seem kind of ghostly, when it comes to contact-info. On a Higher Note, seems like a Commercial for them, but NOT the company itself and so since the closed down some 20-25 years ago and since the re-arose from the dark again, I haven't been able to find the actual website of the company itself. Maybe you or somebody can help me with this.


Anyway almarg. Thanks so much for your comment and insight. I Appreciate it A Lot.


Sincerely Thomas.

60hz frequency is more beneficial to DC part of equipment by having smaller wavelength to rectify and get smoother pulse for DC. The turntables with AC motors usually have different size motor pulleys for 60Hz frequency 

I concur with almarg's comment.  The difference between 50hz and 60hz A/C waveforms will not hurt any electronics equipment.  Actually, the older PS Audio power regenerator allowed you to alter the power waveform frequency and some people used up to a 120hz cycle. 

The major problem that you would encounter is when you used a 120V device on a 240V A/C outlet.  The transformer may or may not be able to handle the 240V (it may burn it out), but the biggest problem is the increased voltage in the power supply capacitor bank.  That increase would probably blow the capacitors in little time.

The other possible issue is with turntables that have A/C motors.  The drop in cycles would affect the speed and the records would play slower.

It is no problem running your CD player on 60Hz mains voltage as compared to 50 Hz mains voltage - it is actually easier on the transformer.  

As soon as the voltage enters the CD Player it is fed into a transformer then rectified to DC Voltage which is what the CCD player works from.

As far as your  Mark Levinson pieces - they may have some protection built into them that will prevent them from turning on if connected to a different mains voltage frequency, they do this to prevent gray marketing of their product - if your products are affected by this I don't know, but it could be an issue.  

Good Listening

Peter
It is no problem running your CD player on 60Hz mains voltage as compared to 50 Hz mains voltage - it is actually easier on the transformer.  

As soon as the voltage enters the CD Player it is fed into a transformer then rectified to DC Voltage which is what the CCD player works from.

As far as your  Mark Levinson pieces - they may have some protection built into them that will prevent them from turning on if connected to a different mains voltage frequency, they do this to prevent gray marketing of their product - if your products are affected by this I don't know, but it could be an issue.  This is overcome by installing a differently programmed IC in the power supply of the pieces which can be done by the local distributor for a fee of course.   

Good Listening

Peter
You might want to investigate if the transformer in your unit can be switced. Many transformers can go from 110 to 220 and back by swapping leads. Only someone who is qualified should attempt this. The tell-tale of this is that the primary coils have 4 leads instead of just 2.

Best,

Erik
Erik, how to distinguish someone qualified from someone not qualified to swap leads of transformer on consumer electronics?
I believe you only need qualification if you swapping leads on power station or substation or on commercial building... Other than that it’s just swap -- wire X replaces wire Y.
I’ve seen that also swap in certain units must be done on secondary coil where you’re supposed to swap at least 4...6 wires especially in full function integrated amps. With service manual it's very easy that tells you which set of wires should change the AC input voltage and not to hard without just by simply measuring the output voltage with given input on each transformer output and match.

one other thing to keep in mind  Japan uses both 50 and 60 cycles depending on the area of the island so I would imagine its fine for either.  ( Luxman being build in japan) put the proper voltage into it and you should be fine as the above people mentioned. DC after the trany.

How do you like the Luxman digital i've been eyeing them?

Transformer might be slightly more efficient at 60Hz but it doesn't make much difference when power is low (SACD etc.).   Filtering after rectification will leave a little more ripple but it might be inaudible.  Motor might be a "Step Motor" being fed frequency to obtain exact linear speed/frequency.  In either case - DC or Step Motor it is regulated system independent from the 50/60Hz line frequency and most likely crystal based.
Hi Everyone. Thank You All Sooo Much for your Huge Help and Wonderfull Comments. I usually prefer to answer ALL Personally, but these last two days have just been so hectic, so I'll try and answer in several groups, according to different areas of the subject of the title of this discussion. 

Many of You have commented on whether or not 60hz into a 50hz SACD-Player, will destroy some internal parts, such as the trannie and part of the signal-handling system down the line from the trannie. You aml seem to agree with each-other, that this should be a problem, since the parts either have a tolerance for both frequencies, even though they may not be specifically made to resist both frequencies, they still can handle both with no problem. Then there were several of you who said, that there ARE parts and entire Audio Equipment, MADE to work fine with both and have a built intolerance for both frequencies from the factory. Then more specifically in regards to Luxman, one of You mentioned, that Japan uses BOTH cycles in different part of the country and thus there it is more likely, that japanese products in general, are more able to withstand both frequencies, since its not likely, that the make one transformer and o e set of parts for the gear going to one part of the country, which uses 60hz and then another complete different set for other part, which uses 50hz. That probably doesn't make sense profitability-wise as well as Time-wise. It is there most probable, that most japanese Audio Manufactures, probably makes just one set of parts, that can withstand both.

No regarsing moving wires inside the apparatus, it is probably doable, but I have just never beeb a fan of it myself. My gear is all with Original Boxes and on them , it says the Original Voltage and I have Always to buy, own and sell my gear, with voltage given by the factory, because that means, that the next buyer, safe can buy from, nowing that the Originality of the gear, has never been tampered with...

Regarding the right voltage. Obviously, the gear always has to have the right or nearly the right voltage. And thus is why I can happily say, that I yesterday had a certified electrician come and change two specific  chosen outlets from 110 into 220Volts and Everything works Perfectly and Sounds Outstanding. Thanks So Much Everyone, for your Advices and Comments.

Have a Greasaaaat Audio Day All of You.

Sincerely Thomas.

Oh, well...
Can't rise the bridge -- lower the river

I Obviously meant the following (Corrected for  spelling errors)

Hi Everyone. I Thank You All Sooo Much for your All The Huge Help and Wonderful Comments. I usually prefer to answer ALL Personally, but these last two days have just been so hectic, so I'll try and answer in several groups, according to different areas of the subject of the title of this discussion.

Many of You have commented on whether or not 60hz into a 50hz SACD-Player, will Damage or Destroy Certain internal parts, such as the Trannie and other parts in the signal-path and -handling system, down the line from the Trannie. You all seem to agree with each-other, that this Issue should NOT be a problem, since the parts either have a tolerance for both frequencies, even though they may not necessarily be specifically made to resist both frequencies, they still do and can handle both frequencies, with no problem. Then there were several of You who said, that there ARE parts in the Audio Industry, which on purpose IS made to work fine with both frequencies and thus have a built in tolerances, for both frequencies from the factory.

Then more specifically in regards to Luxman or Japanesa Audio Products in General, one of You mentioned, that Japan uses BOTH cycles in different parts of the country and thus it is more likely than not, that japanese products in general, are more able to withstand both frequencies, since its not likely, that they make one transformer and thus one set of parts for the gear going to one part of the country, which uses 60hz and then another completely different set for the other part, which uses 50hz. That probably doesn't make sense profitability-wise as well as Time-wise. It is therefore most probable, that most japanese Audio Manufactures, probably make just one set of parts, that can withstand both frequencies.

Now regarding moving and/or reconnecting wires inside the apparatus, now that is probably doable, but I have just never been a huge fan of this myself. My gear is all with Original Boxes and thus on these boxes , it indicates the Original Voltage, which the apparatus in question was born with from the factory and I have Always wanted to buy, own and sell gear, with the Original Voltage Setting as given by the factory from the get-go, because this means, that the next buyer, safely can buy from you, knowing that the Originality of the gear, has never been tampered with...

Regarding the right voltage. Obviously, the gear always has to have the right or nearly the right voltage (100-120V or 220-240V). This therefore is why I can happily say, that I yesterday had a Certified Electrician come and change two specifically  chosen outlets from 110 into 220 Volts and I can report, that Everything works Perfectly and Sounds Outstanding.
I Therefore would like to say Thanks So Much Everyone, for your Advices and Comments...I'm Now a Very Happy Camper.

Have a Greasaaaat Audio Day All of You.

Sincerely Thomas.

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czarivey
3,337 posts10-26-2016 1:10pmEnter your text ...

Czarivey...So True...Thanks Again...