I'm the builder of Vetterone's rack. He and I worked closely on the design features. It does exactly what it should do. I photographed the construction of it and would be happy to forward those to you. Email me through Audiogon if you want these photos.
A similar design could be made from materials other than steel but I don't believe the results would be as good. Also, I would be happy to talk to you on the phone if you need design help. This project was a ton of work but worth every bit of the effort put into it.
Concrete blocks are the worst support for any stereo component. I know-I had all of my stuff (including turntable) on cinder blocks. I currently use the mapleshade set-up of butcher blocks and brass cones. Works very well for turntables.
The concensus on the Teres discussion forum has been that a solid, high mass stand works best. This is especially true if you're lucky enough to have a solid floor, as you apparently do. Stability and mass loading are at the core of the Teres design. The stand should work with that design.
I haven't heard it, but I think a stand like the one Lugnut made for Steve would suit a Teres quite well.
Thanks guys for the input so far. Lugnut, that is an amazing rack you put together - yes it definitely looks like it does the job very well, and it looks fantastic. I'd definitely be interested in looking at building such a rack, although I've no experience with such construction - might be a fun project though. Thanks also for the kind offer to share input with me on the design - I do believe I'll take you up on that. Happy listening,
I am reviving an old thread - hope that is not forbidden here! I am considering getting a Teres turntable - maybe the 255?? Anyway, my house has wood floors and there is definitely a vibration problem when people walk across the room. Though I have heard that a wall mount turntable shelf is the best bet for this situation, I do not have the wall space. I also don't have the space to give the turntable its own stand, isolated from my other audio equipment. I am therefore hoping to buy a solid maple audio component stand from timbernation.com - http://www.timbernation.com/ampstand_PopUp.cfm
It is supposed to weigh around 200 lbs, and the turntable itself will be on the top shelf, which will be about 3 inches thick.
Will this help stabalize the turntable or is this insuficient? Is there some other vibration control I can add to the rack?
I haven't had an analog system for over 20 years so I am learning everything seemingly for the first time!
Good luck with your journey into vinyl. Do go for the Teres 265 if it is within your budget.
I have a Teres (265) on a suspended wood floor and so do many others. It is much less sensitive to footfalls than my previous suspended table. The Teres has NEVER skipped or even audibly mistracked due to outside vibration of any kind.
My stand is not as sturdy or heavy as the one you're looking at, although it is shorter. Keep your turntable on the lowest stand possible, or at least on the lowest level that's convenient. The lower it is the less angular momentum there'll be to disturb it.
Because that stand is more massive I expect your Teres may do even better than ours, not only for resisting footfalls but also for dynamics and clean groove tracing.
For "normal" technology, the rigid high-mass platforms such as stone blocks have been typical bases for the Teres tables. The high mass base is a vibration sink, which is a good thing for the unsuspended turntables.
If you come to the CES show, you'll see what some "new" technology can do for these turntables, in the form of the Sistrum TT platform which will be situated under the brand new Teres flagship Model 360 at its first public debut in the Las Vegas CES. Should cause quite a stir. See it in the Teres Audio/Red Rock Audio room during the show.
I need to register a dissenting opinion regarding thick maple platforms. In my experience, thick maple platforms, whether butcherblock or the solid maple from Mapleshade, suck the life out of music.
I have tried both 2" solid maple and and 3" maple butcherblock under my Galibier turntable, my tube preamps and my tube power amps, and in EVERY instance the sound has been overdamped and lifeless. It is smooth and fairly detailed, but the loss of liveliness is much too high a price to pay, IMHO. I would also add that I noted an inadequate low frequency response as well.
These observations held true whether the maple platform was supported by cones, by Mapleshade Isoblocks, wood blocks, or sorbothane pucks.
Now I do acknowledge that many folks have tried maple and reported great success. But I would suggest that anyone who is interested in thick maple should try it for himself and reach his own conclusions. Don't simply assume from all of the favorable press that maple is the answer.
Incidentally, my 3" butcherblock is 18 x 24. I purchased it from Timbernation, and I was very pleased with both the appearance of the platform and the service from Timbernation. I would recommend them as a supplier. My caution only extends to the nature of the product itself.
I'm upgrading my teres from 245 to 255 as we speak. So, I can share my thoughts on the improvements. Chris at Teres was kind enough to offer sending me the new platter before I send the old one back, so I can do before and after comparison. Should be fun. He's also sending me the new record clamp too, to see improvements there. Finally, I'm upgrading the motor and going for battery power too. All told, I expect to see a nice improvement.
I haven't heard the 265, but a few thoughts kept me back from pursing that purchase. For me, all that wood just looks a little old/vintage for me - wheras the 245 or 255 has a bit of a more modern look - just a matter of personal taste. Then, from reading other people's impressions, the upgrade from 245 to 255 appears to be more of an improvement than that of going from 255 to 265, and the price of the 255 upgrade is much more cost effective than going full out for the 265. Finally, I've read in at least one thread that some few people prefer the sound of the 255 to 265 (I think the point that was made was more resolution with the 255 compared to the 265 which had a more natural presentation). So, 255 seems the right way for me. Still, despite what I say, in the future I might sell the 255 and get a 320 - that table just looks great (despite all the wood) and looks less imposing than it's larger siblings.
Thank you for your responses and encouragement. As with everyone else, I am finding my journey fun - but increasingly expensive!!
Twl - I won't be able to get to CES to see your products but I am interested in the Sistrum Platforms. I take it the support rods are supposed to be filled with steel shot or something of that nature?
Doug - What rack or platform do you use? I currently have a Sanus rack with the maple finish - Sanus Natural Furniture Series
It looks nice but I need another shelf for a turntable and the rack itself seems flimsy/unstable to me. I would like something sturdier. I know that the turntable probably shouldn't be placed on the top shelf, but shelf spacing constraints may dictate that that is where I have to place it. Guess I'll figure that out once I choose the rack!
Dave/Salectric - I really like maple and like the look of the Timbernation offerings, but I have not definitely made up my mind about buying a maple equipment rack. I also rather like the look of this rack - Sonus 5-tier rack
but from what I have read, glass shelves really don't help the equipment sonics. Though many other people swear by butcher block platforms, heavy wood racks, you have obviously had negative experiences with wood platforms and racks. What do you use instead?
Oakiris - just one other suggestion on the platform. I read in a recent thread here of one user having great success with a Prometheus stand/support coupled with a Nuance shelf - for an unsuspended turntable (can't remember which one, but it wasn't a Teres). The Prometheus stand is spring loaded (seeminly at odds with traditional views of supporting unsuspended turntables), but the guy seemed quite adamant that the improvements were substantial. Sorry I can't think of which Audiogon thread it was offhand. Still, might be worth researching further. I'd love to try such an approach. Also, even if the stand doesn't work well for the Teres, it could probably be used with great success for another component. Just another suggestion.
Our equipment (except speakers) is all in/on a Salamander Synergy Triple 20. See it here:http://www.mander.com/syn/synergy.jsp?modelbase=sl20
This stand is decidedly NOT audiophile approved. In fact it rings like a bell. I know that so please nobody yell at me. (Okay, TWL can yell at me if he likes, but nobody else!) We chose it because:
1. It looks decent in the living room
2. It holds all our gear, click on my system for details
3. It looks decent in the living room
4. It's flexible enough to hold different gear when things change
5. It looks decent in the living room
6. It fits our very tight space to the nearest 1/4", I'm not exaggerating, that's how much free space we have on the equipment wall
7. It looks decent in the living room
Our TV occupies two thirds of the top surface. The Teres gets the remaining third, which is not quite fair. The Teres + tonearm not only weigh more than the TV, they get far more use.
Oakiris, the supporting legs of the Sistrum TT platform, and other Sistrum multi-shelf platforms, can be filled with our proprietary MicroBearing fill, which enhances the performance of the stand. This is an upgrade, and we also have some other upgrades too.
The Microbearings are very very small steel balls, which are so small that when you put a few ounces of it in a drinking glass, you can swirl it around like a liquid. We don't recommend using any other type of filling material for the legs. This is an engineered product that is designed for our stands, and will work properly. Other materials may or will reduce the performance of our platforms.
If you'd like to email me personally, I'd be happy to discuss anything about this that you'd like to talk about.
Dave(Salectric), my experiences with some of the materials you mention are exactly the same.
Doug, you crack me up!
No yelling coming from here.
I don't seem to be getting any closer to a decision here. Still waiting to hear what you use for your equipment/component rack Dave! So many people swear by the wonderful sonics they get from thick wood racks and platforms, and yet, like Dave & Twl, others say that they are definitely not the way to go! As important as the rack may be, I really don't want to spend almost as much on it as I do on the turntable - I just don't have the $$$ to burn.
Any comments on the Sonus rack?
I will be going to see Chris of Teres tomorrow. I'll see what he has to say about preferred racks for the Teres turntables - just so I can get more confused by the choices, probably. :-)
John - somehow I lost track of the fact that you started this thread!! What did you end up getting for your stand/rack? Or are you still looking?
Oakiris, I am using my Galibier turntable on a 3/4" thick maple butcherblock shelf from Bed, Bath and Beyond, which is supported in the corners by the solid oak posts of a DIY stand. Surprising as it may seem, I prefer that to the 3" thick platform from Timbernation. This started out as a strictly temporary setup, but I have not been able to find anything that I prefer.
My favorite mounting for my power amps is a solid walnut platform resting directly on the carpet. My preamps sound best, at least so far, on a short nesting table made of solid oak. I have not tried most of the commercial offerings since I prefer to do things myself where possible.
I would like to try a very solid and rigid metal stand, perhaps a Sound Anchors or Billy Bags product. My present thinking is that this might provide the best combination of sound characteristics that I am looking for. TWL's comments about the new Sistrum stand also interest me. I look forward to seeing some photos. Also, Lugnut's stand looks great and I suspect sounds very nice.
My reason for posting here was not to say what is best, but rather to issue a caution about assuming that a thick maple BB platform will solve all of your problems.
My experiments to date lead me to two conclusions: First, different shelves and stands can sound dramatically different. Second, two people can reach opposite conclusions about which material sounds best. Ultimately, like most things in home audio, you have to try something yourself and reach your own conclusions.
I haven't gotten any new stand yet - still considering options. I'm tempted to get a the new Sistrum stand that Twl outlines as I've had good success with the sistrum 004 platforms for my speakers. Also, the upcoming sistrum turntable platform can hold two other components apart from the turntable. This is a key requirment for me, as my real-estate for audio is quite limited and I'm keen to get some more equipment stacked into the turntable footprint.
Right now I am using four standard concrete blocks on top of a brick floor area as a stand for the teres. This is per original recommendation I got from Twl, who's opinion I trust highly.
I did try adding a 3/4 inch thick MDF wood interface between the Teres and the concrete, but results were not so good in my opinion - it's possible some elements of the music were better, but overall the presentation was a little less resolved and lacked authority.
For reference, check out this very cool looking stand that was made specifically for a Teres:
I got the link courtesy of Lugnut. The stand looks pretty amazing to me, and meets my needs of supporting some other equipment. Still, I'm not sure if I have the DIY know how and patience to build one myself.
Also, for reference, here are two other links which outline some good thoughts and optionions on turntable stands - might not be fully applicable to unsuspended turntables like Teres, but good thougths nonetheless:
I had a great visit with Chris of Teres on Thursday. My search for a turntable has ended! Just for the record, he had his Teres 265 set up on a masssive wooden stand - probably about 6 inches thick with what appeared to be 4"X4" legs. Chris said that he really likes the sonics of the thick wood platforms. He also suggested, however, that I check equipment racks made by a company in Canada- Skylan Component Racks
These racks are made of MDF, of all things, and he said they set one up for him at the Rocky Mtn. Audio Show this summer and he was astonished by how good they sound - and they are a lot cheaper than the racks I've been looking at. Chris said that a couple of his customers have purchased the Skylan racks for their Teres turntables and have been very pleased with them. Yet another choice!
Dave/Salectric - I would imagine I could have Timbernation make me a rack of any shelf thickness I would request. I really like the look of maple, so I am very tempted by this. I have a few weeks to decide, though.
John/Outlier - Thanks for the link to that very interesting thread. I, too, am intrigued by the Sistrum platforms. I can't imagine that Twl would lead us wrong. :-) Still, it would cost almost $2000 for the rack I would need (I assume I would need the solid top shelf since the Teres turntables have a separate motor component.) Like you, I have some definite space constraints and will have to have a complete rack in order to be able to place all of my audio equipment. I wish I could have a separte stand just for my turntable, but there is no way. I agree that the best thing to do would be DIY, but I don't have the skills for that.
Wish I could buy several racks just to see which I prefer, but I have yet to find a money tree!
So, I've inquired about this rack:
because, the price is right, the rack looks great, and it's supporting a Teres 255. I'm still not sure how it will sound with the Teres, but it's a strong contender. I'm also inquiring to the manufacturer if they can make a tall double-stand, that will accomodate all my equipment, and the Teres. That would be ideal, as I've seven other components to accomodate, not including my two power amps, which I guess I can do seperately on amp stands.
Anyway, the adventure continues. If I get this rack, I'll post my impressions. Cheers,
I have looked at the Adona racks, too - they do indeed look very nice! Hope to make up my mind about a rack sometime soon - so many choices on line, but no where local to actually see and "listen" to them.
Good luck, John - if Adona fits the bill, then your search is over!