Both are nice tables. I personally own a Teres 245 and like it very much. You may be interested to know that the Scheu TT was the turntable used as the starting concept from which the original Teres project sprung. The Teres idea was to build upward from the Scheu table, with significant improvement in mind. I think they succeeded.
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Hart at Audio Advancements will set up your Morch arm (he sells, installs them) on a Scheu table. I am in a similar dilemna; ie, Teres vs Scheu. I am leaning to the Teres despite the additional cost (note that the Teres comes with a clamp whereas it is an extra cost with the Scheu) for the following reasons:
a) Lots of support from people like Tom and others on Audiogon that have direct experience with different Teres combinations. There is very little information on the Scheu tables available that I've been able to find.
b) Teres is made in the USA.
c) Teres has an unconditional money back guarantee with no time limit with no explanations required. Teres thinks a lot of its products;
d) Some people that should know recommend the Teres as a slightly better table over the Scheu. Carlos Morsiani recommended the Teres over the Scheu; said they are both great tables but go with the Teres. Morsiani makes custom order turntables and great tonearms that you might consider over the Morch.
The Scheu Premier does have a model for two tonearms and is much less expensive than the Teres 240. One could acquire the Scheu Premier and a decent arm for the cost of the Teres alone. I would lower my sights and start with the Teres 150 (leaded birch base); you can always upgrade or build your own plinth down the road.
my 2 cents
Thanks for the initial info, both of you. I am very aware the Scheu was the blueprint, so to speak, for the Teres tables. I was even considering the 255 Teres but it gets a bit pricier at that level, but probably well worth it I suspect. I am quite capable of doing the actual arm setup myself, I have the gear to do it properly. I guess the question for me is: Which Teres table is likely to be close, sonically, to the Scheu. Perhaps the lower end Teres are sonically in line with the Premier II, I don't know. I have heard the Scheu but not any of the Teres models, hence my curiosity with the Teres. When buying a Teres, is it necessary to do some additional work as they come in a kit form or not. What is involed, or does it come ready to go with some set up, etc.
TWL - how do you know Teres succeeded in bettering a Scheu? Have you compared a Scheu to a Teres? Side-by-side, same everything? Has anyone? Or are you just speculating that a Teres is 'subjectively'? If you are speculating, on what basis do you think a Teres is better?
Here is another perspective for the archives: As a former Teres owner, if I were ever again in the market for a table like either of these, I would go with a Scheu.
Brian, generally speaking, a project that starts out to exceed a certain benchmark will not be considered successful if it doesn't exceed the performance of that benchmark. Since the Teres group had the Scheu right there to work from, I suspect that they knew if they were getting better results, or not. I have not done the A/B comparison myself.
However, I don't doubt that the Scheu is a very fine table. If you did the comparison yourself, then you know what the exact comparison would yield. And, since all this is subjective, you might just find something about the Scheu that you like better than the Teres, but not everyone might find that to be so. That's why there are a variety of turntables out there. I've heard some people say they like a certain turntable better than another, when it was clearly the opposite, to my ears. So, to each his own.
Enjoy your table and your music. In any case, we both have good ones.
TWL - lets try and stick to the facts when posting on this forum and not being a bigot towards one particular tt and making statements like you did that are not based on real experience. Everyone who posts advise on this forum should practice this. Frankly, your obvious and extreme shilling for Teres is getting to be annoying and it detracts from effective knowledge sharing.
I disagree Bmckenney about TWL and Teres both. If he doesn't know, he says he doesn't know. I never see him deviate from the facts. Just because you don't like his or anyone else's answer is no reason to slam their response. I always thoughht that when someone asks for an OPINION, they deserve to get an honest answer. And almost all of these answers are subjective, as Tom said, becuse what sounds good to one does not necessarily sound good to another.
As usually happens here, someone gets off the subject to ridicule a product or person they "dislike". While I've listened to many other tables, the Teres is the best that I have heard. That's why I recommend it, especially when someone asks specifically about it.
In this case I would say go with the Teres. But try and listen to the Scheu so you can judge for yourself. The problem here is listening to both of them with the arm and cartridge you want to use. But, if you can't listen to either in this way, go with the Teres. That's what I did, got one (built one) sight unseen, I mean unheard. And guess what, TWL helped guide me along during this process. Along with countless others here.
Sure I got the "buy an LP12" type responses and listened to others slam the Teres, but I went with the opinions presented for my budget and listening style. And am damn glad I did.
So to once again guide this thread back to the original subject, yes you have to do a little work. It does not come set up. If you can set up an arm, you can set up the Teres. Look on the Teres site, I think there is a set up manual there. Also, look here:
You will be able to see most of the parts, and what goes where. You'll also see how to build the plinth, at least how I built the plinth, so that if you go with the lower model, you know what's involved if you want to upgrade it yourself.
And as always, email Chris with any questions, he is very helpful.
Just my OPINION.
Brian, seems to me that you are the only one being "annoyed". I was quite cordial and deferential to your experience in the matter, and ended with a "to each his own" statement, even though your previous other posts described your Teres as "255ish", which indicates a DIY version or variant, and may easily have sounded different than a factory version(perhaps better, or worse) In any case, it sheds similar doubt on your "personal experience" with these tables as you accuse my opinion of having. It seems that my attempt at friendly interaction has fallen on deaf ears with you, so I'll not make that mistake in the future.
Apparently, you have more than a passing interest in Scheu tables, because your other posts boldly advise another member even which Scheu dealer or Scheu importer you feel should be supported with a Scheu purchase. So maybe, you are doing a little "schilling" of your own. Also, I noticed in those other posts that you have some kind of problem with me and my posts in other matters too.
So if you have some personal problem about me in particular, then send me an email and get it off your chest. Otherwise, I'll post as I see fit, and within Audiogon rules.
TWL. I would only recommend a Scheu over a Teres because of my experience with a Teres, which is obviously different than yours. I have no experience with a Scheu. Never seen one. I can barely spell it. I only said that I would recommend buying directly from Scheu instead of buying unsupported product from audio advancements not because I have experience with Scheu but because it makes sense. I also am not alone in my experience with the Teres either. I am sure you have heard from the detractors of the table in the past. BTW, my Teres was not a kit. I also said that if I was looking at a table like the Scheu or Teres (design) I would go with the Scheu. Not because I know the Scheu, but because I know the Teres.
In retrospect, I suppose I'm just as guilty of what I accused you of which isn't right or what I'm about. I just get riled up when I think someone is going overboard with promoting a product and whom might have a financial interest in it. If its just pure enthusiasm theres nothing wrong with that. People want suggestions, ideas, recommendations, and a productive, open discussion that present different ideas and options so they can hopefully make some sort of good suggestion. Some may prefer one tt over another - its as simple as that. People just need to realize that just because every tom dick and harry say the Teres is the best tt at some price point doesn't mean its true and it needs to be stated that its not true. Anyway, sorry if this seemed like a personal attack. I'll keep the challenges totally objective in the future.
You obviously have some personal agenda and chose to hijack Rlmm's thread to throw a public temper tantrum. That was regrettable. If you anything to share regarding the tables Rlmm asked about I'm sure he'd like to hear it. I doubt he or anyone else wants to hear personal assaults.
Rlmm asked for "ideas". That is what Twl offered and he made that perfectly clear. If we could all drop in to a dealer for a TT side-by-side then we all would. But we can't, so we come here to share ideas and experiences. No one does that as effectively and helpfully as Twl, and he always makes it clear when he's speaking from experience and when he's speaking theoretically.
Like Twl and Bmckenney I've only heard a Teres (my 265). Other than that all I "know" is what I read online. I have directed people to both Teres and Scheu in the past, depending on their needs, location and budget. I've talked new owners through issues and questions with both lines. No one who's gone either way based on my suggestions has ever been unhappy AFAIK. IOW, both companies make good TT's, both companies are less than perfect (like any other) and both companies stand behind their product.
Which Teres model would "beat" a Scheu Premier 2? I can only speculate but I'd expect a 245 or higher would. A 150 or 160 might, especially a 160. A 135 might or might not. I'll elaborate on my "reasoning" if you wish, but keep in mind it's based entirely on theorizing.
I posted this on another Teres related issue.
I received information from Hart at Audio Advancements in the past ten days that Hart just received 11 new Premier Mk II kits from Scheu. In other words, Audio Advancements continues to have a current relationship with Scheu. I specifically addressed your concern, Bmck, about getting a non current Scheu and only helping to clear out discontinued product, with Hart.
I would urge anybody contemplating a Scheu or Teres, or any other expensive table, to contact Hart. Hart sells several tonearms including the very attractive Morch and will set it all up for you prior to purchase. Hart also seems very knowledgeable and interested in a happy customer mostly as opposed to making a sale.
So rather than relying on hearsay from people with no direct and current advice you might contact Hart and/or Scheu. Herr Scheu will respond to your queries, too. The Scheu can be ordered from Germany or Hart/Audio Advancements. I think you only get instructions in German, though, if you order from Germany. Shipping costs go up, too, as this is a heavy item.
Hey guys, Rlmm here. I really appreciate all the discussion on the TT ideas, however, I certainly hope this discussion does not put one at odds with another. This is supposed to be an honest and informative discussion and while I VERY MUCH appericate everyone's time, I hate to see this heading in the wrong direction. All that said, let me share a bit of information to all of you that is more recent updated information regarding pricing and other issues I have some concern about. I checked this out myself.
1st, current pricing on the Premier II buying direct, including freight, is much less than through a US dealer such as Audio Advancements. This is not surprising of course.
2nd, It clearly states on the Scheu website and in Germany to deal directly with them as no current dealers exist in the US, and potential customers are directed to them for this purpose. I'm not sure what the relationship is between Scheu and Audio Advancements. It may be just fine but this might be of concern to some.
3rd, It seems to me to be a difficult comparrison to make between the two models, Teres/Scheu, because Teres has so many models to choose from, a nice thing to have available but lots of decisions and choices to make. I realize this makes sense from an upgrade point of view.
So, I'm still in a state of indecision only because any good honest evaluations on the Scheu did not seem to come forward, but some very positive comments regarding the Teres units. Perhaps a good sign, but a little more info on the benefits or shortcomings of the Scheu would be illuminating.