Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low. He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other. Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
Sean, sorry about this odd little diatribe. What a strange conversation. I’ll just ignore such foolishness in the future, hopefully such petty personal attacks are refrained from.
I think you’e right, indeed Tekton doesn’t mention anything about any coaxial effect. In fact, on some of their speakers, they use full range drivers with whizzer cones.
Oh, now you're all friendly again. Just what is your deal, James? You go from trying to shame me for the lowly gear I own to, "hey, thanks for linking my thread". You're kind of a jerk, James, I don't think I'd ever want to have any dealings with you on Canuckaudiomart.
And in this thread, I'm going to discuss Tekton's faults with posters like Sean. You're going to have to deal with it.
It should be stated for anyone reading this thread that 213runnin does not own any good gear so take his comments regarding performance with a BIG grain of salt. You can look at his ownership history through his CAM account and posts. Better we be up front about things if someone is going to keep slinging mud at a manufacturer and a product he has never heard. Everyone’s opinion has its place but some are more credible than others. It boggles my mind that someone would go this hard against a company/person/manufacturer. He has even Invaded my Canuck Audio Mart thread about Tekton. People have personally reached out to me inquiring what the issue is with this user but I have no answers.
What’s this James, are you trying to out me? My profile in canuckaudiomart shows that 17 people have had dealings with me and have had a positive experience. I’ve probably dealt with over 20 members and not one single person has had anything bad to say about me.
But what about your thread that I’ve "invaded"? Why didn’t you link to it? I made 7 posts in your 6 page thread, and the last thing I said was:
Hmm, that’s the best argument yet that I’ve heard to be interested in the Tektons. I"m getting kind of bored with the usual box sound myself.
This is the same thread in which I asked James how many $5000+ speakers he’s owned, and he replied with this:
Over the years more than I could count or remember. That’s generally the average price of my secondary speakers.
For the record, I presently own a theater system that contains a Denon AVR 4520, Oppo 103, Benq projector, Sierra 1’s for LCR and 4 Totem Lynks for surround. My 2 channel system is currently a Nad c375BEE, Nad C565BEE cd player, Schiit Bifrost Multibit and a Pure idock for the iphone. Speakers are presently Totem Rainmakers and Tannoy DC4T. Also Wireworld and Morrow Audio cables worth over $1200.
Sorry this isn’t good enough for you James, maybe if I save up and buy really expensive gear I can be accepted in your thread. BTW, in THIS thread, it’s not the Tekton DI Owner thread. It’s a thread in which some weakness of the DI, and Tekton in general are being discussed. If you can’t handle this, perhaps you should stick to the owner thread, I’ve stayed out of it and will promise for you to stay out.
Sean, it sounds like those trying to pump up the Tekton brand may be exaggerating about this coaxial nonsense since even Tekton isn't reaching that far.
BTW, I've owned several coaxial based speakers from Tannoy, that grand storied brand, and Tekton has a long way to go to at least start having decent looks, never mind performance.
How many coaxial speakers have you owned, Ken? I mean speakers like the Kef LS50, with an actual coaxial driver? I don't need to speculate, I've got a pair of coaxials right now.
Well the only real way to get true "co-axial" effect is to get speakers with coaxial drivers. I recommend Tannoy and Kef, and I'm sure there are others.
I'm thinking that this is coming from Mr. Eric. It's not mentioned in patent or website as far as I could see. This would be an impressive accomplishment for a passive speaker.
"I think the double impacts would sound better with only five tweeters rather then six. In my mind that center tweeter is going to interfere or get interfered with by the other five. Thoughts?"
From what I understand only the center one is a tweeter.
The six in the ring are coupled and crossover’d to be the midrange. The small/combined drivers can react quickly due to their low mass. The ring around the tweeter gives a point-source co-axial affect.
I think the double impacts would sound better with only five tweeters rather then six. In my mind that center tweeter is going to interfere or get interfered with by the other five. Thoughts?
And p.s., I very much enjoy both speakers. You're just picking a fight, injecting unwarranted out of context meaning as cmsgolf already rightfully pointed out. Again, research is your friend. Best, mikirob
Fact is most speakers "internals" cost very, very little that sell for $10,000-$20,000 new. You won't find copper foil caps and top flight resistors from Path Audio or Duelund. You will find sand cast resistors, electrolytic caps, less expensive poly caps and on and on.....The DI speakers may use the same cost parts, but they sell for far less. The design is so good that they also sound great with average parts.
I see that anyone holding a different point of view is still getting mob attacked on this thread. Nitewulf, whenever you see this kind of fervor for any particular brand, there is usually no point in trying to have a discussion.
No. And no. No attack on DeVore or Harbeth. As charles1dad kindly stated it is a reasonable observation of many speakers internally. You might do your own investigation, you might be surprised in what you find out. Best, mikirob
The statement questioning the the cost difference of internal parts between Devore and the Double Impact hardly seems like an "attack". Just a reasonable observation. I suppose it is a matter of interpretation and level of one's sensitivity. Charles
He owns the Devore and justified the price to himself based on how they sounded in his room. He does not seem unhappy with the choice. Not sure how that is attacking the speaker. The quote was taken completely out of context with the meaning of his entire post. Are you looking for a reason to be offended?
So, in this environment, Eric must offer a "budget" equivalent to high-end products at a fraction of the cost -- to attract new buyers who want the best but cannot (or will not) pay $30k.
I agree and I think that Tekton should be considered along with Magnepan, Spatial Audio, Ohm, Zu? and Vandersteen because all of these companies do something DIFFERENT and compete with speakers that are much more expensive when it comes to sound reproduction.
Think that Eric's business model can be explained by considering the broad changes that have taken place in the cultural/musical/audio fields since the 1980s.
At this time there was a major shift in preference to visual over musical interest. All musical-related fields saw a downturn that affected certain areas first -- professionals in the field and retail establishments. At first, the tendency was for these areas to go high end -- there is still a small market for aficionados and these can be mined for a certain amount of time. Thus Fazioli pianos and Wilson speakers thrived.
The downturn has continued, however, and now it is impossible to find a grand piano dealer in most towns and hard-copy music and audio stores have gone the way of the dinosaur (yes, I know there are Best Buy stores but you know what they offer).
So, in this environment, Eric must offer a "budget" equivalent to high-end products at a fraction of the cost -- to attract new buyers who want the best but cannot (or will not) pay $30k.
This is exactly what he has done -- using the techniques described above. Here's my advice -- get your speakers from him ASAP as it will be difficult for Eric to justify the tremendous tensions and energy required for his business model over any length of time.
BTW, as a lifelong music historian, I can suggest that cultural shifts tend to move back towards musical preference in the mid parts of the century. SO, wait another 30 years or so and the broad picture might improve (LOL).
Charles1dad As always on Audiogon you are clarion bell of clarity, common sense, good manners as well as many other positive attributes. And, as such I fully endorse your words. I also deeply respect how you listen and evaluate products and music. You are honest and fair.
It sickens me in certain threads the stupidity expressed; the illegitimate ranting vitriol against a audio product a person or persons has never heard. For no sound reason these members create out of thin air, based on nothing, a negative bias. Not only that, in doing so these members insult the Audiogon members who have purchased the product and report good sound, reviewers, as well as the designer who has labored to design a worthy product. This is a shame. The "Moderator(s)" on Audiogon ought to be ashamed of themselves to allow unwarranted attacks of product not actually bought or listened too. Instead, they delete responses to the dogged attacks because???? Oh, you fed the dogs in kind their own nonsense. You were as harsh as they were. Best, mikirob
Thanks to above respondents. I would love to hear Tektons some day. If anyone is in southcentral PA or thereabouts and would welcome a visit from a curious audiophile I would be most appreciative.
Hi Mikirob, You judge audio products by how they sound? Well so do I, Yes I understand that this is a strange and unconventional approach 😊 There’s an odd aspect of the High End audio community in that products can be looked down upon and dismissed "because "of their lower price.
There’s an ongoing thread that basically takes aim at Tekton Double Impacts and their owners. Essentially the premise is the speaker is "midlevel " quality and undeserving of the high attention level it has garnered. The OP of that thread hasn’t heard the Double Impact but deems it is not true High End caliber.
How one can glean so much information based on preformed assumptions is a mystery. There is a snooty snob attitude at work and this isn’t uncommon in the audiophile sector. Brand status and very high cost are required for approval or Acceptance.
Perhaps that OP and others of that mindset would find the Double Impacts unsuitable by their lofty standards, okay that’s fine. I'm a free market advocate and believe people can spend what ever they want, that’s their call. My only point is to base an opinion on actual listening. I’ve heard very expensive speakers and some of them are truly superb sounding, yet still could be considered overpriced. This is subjective I freely acknowledge.
I do believe that higher price is actually viewed as a definite plus factor for a certain segment of audiophiles. That’s okay as there are always going to be distinct niches formed and individuals will decide where they fit in. My criteria is listen first and then offer a honest impression. Maybe Tekton's pricing model intimidates some, who knows. Charles
Hifiman5 It must be difficult to be so in the dark about business models. If you think real hard perhaps, just maybe you can figure it out.
I'm always amazed when a company such as Tekton produces something worthy/significant at a reasonable cost and instead of accolades or a well done for their accomplishment they engender attacks, like in this thread. Extremely weird. mikirob
Hifiman5 Based on your logic wondering how Tekton DI only cost $3,000 retail, the opposite could also be true. Even if a speaker maker quadruple Tekton's cost internally, wire, capacitors, speakers and so forth, how does he justify a $30,000 to $50,000 price point? I have Devore 0/96 and Harbeth SHL5s. I bet their internals don't cost mega bucks more than the Tekton DIs. How do they justify their cost? Nice cabinetry? I judge everything in my system by how it sounds to my ears in my environment. Best, mikirob
The High End audio industry is full of outrageous margin pricing. Companies like Tekton and Core Power Technology are making world class products with reasonable margin expectations so many audiophiles can enjoy their products!
@hifiman5 In addition, as it is with more basic case work, Tekton isn’t blowing costs on cabinets, though one can upgrade at additional cost and build time. Since it is a small operation, overhead is contained.
Hifiman5, This speakers are sold direct which will reduce the retail price. They could simply be "under priced" for the performance rendered. I had an opportunity to hear the Double Impacts driven by my 300b SET amplifier earlier this week. This is a very good sounding speaker.
I would remind you that the negative comments directed toward this speaker are from people who haven’t listened to them, or consider them unworthy due to their cost. In my opinion you don’t have a valid opinion of an audio product if you haven’t heard it.
I’m well aware that this doesn’t inhibit unsubstantiated speculation, conclusions and opinion. Charles
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