Tekton Design Moab

MC, does the DBA make that much of a difference in the bass considering the Moabs already have 4 12 inch subs (already spread out significantly due to the height of the speakers)?

Good question. Moabs do have excellent deep bass. A few times people have wanted to hear them without the subs and even me being used to 5 subs after a few minutes its not like I'm missing much. A lot of people used to the lean hifi sound so many seem to prefer might even be happier that way. For sure Paul said there was a lot of bass. But then he put on the most bass heavy track I ever heard, Billie Eilish or something like that. Felt like my whole room was a sub and I was inside it. 

The thing about it, yes Moab woofers are far apart. But relative to the wavelength they handle they are one. Same as the MTM tweeter array looks spread out, but in terms of the wavelengths they cover its equivalent to one 9" midrange. Eric told me the math a couple times now, but I keep forgetting. Anyway, having four subs spaced 15 to 20 feet apart around the room still does improve the smoothness and extension, regardless of where you set them in terms of level. Just not nearly as much as with other speakers I have had.

MC. Hope you recover quickly and as completely as possible. 

MC
Have you changed all the xover parts to way, way better ones?......and better wire and removed the binding posts.....and mounted the xover externally?  You will get a whole nuther level of transparency if you do this.  Felting around all the tweeters will increase focus, as well.

passthedutchie,
I am by no means always in agreement with millercarbon's opinions, but I am this time. In my circle of friends, I have consistently seen the husband's desire for a music system in the living room or family room stifled by his wife's objection to its looks, if not its very presence at all.
I do believe that high end manufacturers are also catering to men with cabinets that look beautiful, because of course most of us appreciate that, but I also believe that much of is conceived with the hope of female acceptance; and I do believe that it also includes small size.
I don't think that is sexist at all, just factual, but of course today such observations are not allowed.

@roxy54

i would concur

in my field, which is high end residential real estate development, i work with designers and architects to design homes and select finishes that mostly appeal to the ladies coming through... much of the time, it is they who fall in love with the home, its design, its feel and look... and the husband gets pulled into doing the deal..

not sexist or whatever... just my experience over some 20 years in the pursuit, and many homes designed conceived, built and sold

Agree with both roxy54 and jjss49. I have witnessed these types of gender taste/preferences situations numerous times. "He likes it but she rejects it on the basis of aesthetics" . Or she is attracted to some item/product and he doesn't like it at all. This is just normal human interaction and differences between men and women. Hardly "sexist " to acknowledge common behavior. I suppose everything these days requires some form of a culturally approved or obligatory label.
Charles

JJss49 that’s why carsalesman always prefer the wife is present when the husband is buying a car.

Speaking of (good) looks.

Tekton design may not be to everyone's taste, but it should get a big credit for offering different colors. That alone may make it easier on the eye than some.

Na, if we painted miller red, he would still be offensive :-)

I thought he was getting invisible.

In a poll taken of Audiogon users, that was the most requested color.

“I thought he was getting invisible.”

Perhaps, only in your dreams 😂

"Perhaps, only in your dreams 😂"

Don't we all have our secret little fantasies?

Reading that, I think my brain just threw up a little...😣

He was reportedly seen this afternoon wearing a red ball cap on Capitol Hill. Tom

Alright, enough already people. 

Disruptive in the extreme. This is a market long dominated by women. Women and the girly men who buy in a misguided attempt to please them. Some have bought into this so deeply they don't even realize that is what they have done. But that's the real reason everyone tries so hard to make the smallest prettiest speakers possible. Which if anyone knows anything about speakers they know that one thing alone drives price through the roof.

Well put, indeed a relief reading this.

Welcome to Audiogon.  Also yours truly is so unabashedly in your face at confronting and exposing them that I am virtually their Great White Whale. Or would be, if they ever read a book, which they have not. Ever.

Then too we have the situation where Eric Alexander has developed a technology that in spite of their inability to understand even a little of it, works so well it has enabled him to sell for $5k speakers that cream the crap they bought (or worship, same difference) for $15k and more.

This thread in other words is a perfect storm of conditions, cheese and peanut butter on a cracker these rats cannot resist.

This all goes on because the mods seem to like it this way. If you read through the thread you probably saw at least a dozen times where I asked these people to move along, please. Not only me, whole bunch of others. Some places there’s a long string of absolutely non-relevant posts. Ask them to please move on. They double down. Mods do nothing.

Whole bunch of people asked them to stop, to go away. Whole bunch of them. One day I cut and pasted all those requests. Fifteen, twenty people saying knock it off, move along, please. That’s all it was. My whole post was nothing but what these others had already said. Their own words.

THIS was the post the mods saw fit to remove. Not the harassment, not the insults. Not the off topic waste of time. Just good well-intentioned people interested only in making the site more relevant, friendly and useful. If you judge by actions, they do not want a site that is relevant, friendly, and useful. They want pages and pages of juvenile sniping and bar room blather.

Probably more of an explanation than you expected. But you did ask. And so now you know.

Over half a year now with my Moabs. Love em, appreciate em, more and more every day.

Moab update-

Originally and for the first several months the Moabs were used on BDR Cones MkIV going down into BDR Round Things on the carpet. They were and still are used with a full Synergistic Research HFT Speaker Kit. 

After a few weeks the drivers were unscrewed and the drivers and internal wiring treated with Total Contact and eMats. The eMats are cut up in strips and are largely recycled/reclaimed from the Talon Khorus they were first used with. 

The eMats work great on all kinds of things but it is clear they work especially well inside speakers, and in particular around the internal wiring. Probably this is due to the high strength and constantly fluctuating energy fields found near speakers and crossovers. Whatever the reason the amount of improvement from even a small amount of this stuff is impressive.  

rixthetrick suggested springs as better than BDR, which seemed unlikely until research turned up yes indeed there is good science behind it. So with his help with springs a very crude test platform was slapped together. Incredibly, this dirt cheap shoddy test rig easily out-performed the much more expensive BDR!   

There was a dramatic reduction in grain and glare, a much more natural, solid, and deep 3D sound stage, and even more inner detail. Very impressive, especially for such cheap springs and shoddy construction. (I outdid myself on that one. No, really. You only think you seen ugly!) 

Eventually John Hannant of Townshend Audio convinced me their Townshend Podiums would be a worthwhile upgrade. They do cost a small fortune, especially compared to my ugly spring test platform. But the Podiums are beautiful, and it turns out John was right, night and day. Everything the test springs did, only better, and with a lot more tonally neutral presentation. Strings, drums, horns, voices- everything is so much more in tune with its natural timbre and tone. Dramatic improvement in clarity. 

It did take a little experimentation. Doesn't it always? We think of springs as isolation so it shouldn't matter what is under them but they do work better with BDR Round Things under them. Maybe because of the carpet? Or it may only be they allowed me to slide the feet around easier and position them more perfectly. Who knows? Bottom line: huge improvement!  

How big? First time coming home after listening to Mike Lavigne's system it made mine sound hopelessly bloated. I thought it was all the room. Mike has the most awe inspiringly perfect room ever! But that was before Podiums, with my MDF test bed springs. Now with Podiums, this time after Mike's there was no shock and hardly any adjustment. Different, sure. Not obviously worse. That is a huge improvement! 

MC,

Do you have a picture of the spring platforms you built?

Thanks.

JD

I think it’s comical that someone who once espoused laying tower speakers on their sides would actually throw stones. 
Oz

No pics they were so ugly, but they did work. They are still in the room and I need to update some new system pics so if you're really curiousjim PM your email I could send you. I also might list them for sale and see if someone wants a cheap but effective spring platform suitable for just about any speakers from around 110 to 180 lbs. 

Still amazed at how well the Nobsound spring pods work under my Tekton's compared to other footers. Clarity, imaging and details across all frequencies. I modified them by securing 1/4 inch 20 threaded studs to each so I could level the speakers and I added gliders so I can easily re-position the speakers. When I upgrade to Moab's  or Encore's I will definitely consider auditioning the Townshend products.

What was the sound characteristic after 100 or 200 hours. .?

  Any difference from all those tweeters?

 I wrote this before I think,?......all these tweeters spread out through the crossover do a great job with the midrange frequencies?.

 I have spoken with the owner, and still, I’m fuddled by all the tweeters.  Maybe I’m just used to seeing a dedicated speaker or more as the midrange. 
 I’m still considering a pair, but don’t want bright in your face treble.

      All the reviews have been amazing, despite the few trashtalker ones.  
 Are they prone to tipping from the height of them?

This is all covered above but it's been a while.... The sound characteristic right out of the box was dynamic, clean and clear, and balanced. They did loosen up and improve, sounding even more natural and with an even greater sense of ease. But really, within a few days it was like they were completely broken in. They did improve, but the main thing is how impressive they are right out of the box. These are not speakers you need to run and run and run and never be sure if they're done. 

Was listening last night, and every night it's the same thing, just unbelievably good midrange. You seem to be unable to get past your own mental mind block. I recommend grilles, so you don't have to cope with the mind block of lots of tweeters producing such a beautifully seamless, focused sound stage.

I’m still considering a pair, but don’t want bright in your face treble.

If these had bright in your face treble they would have gone back or been sold long ago. That is a real peeve of mine, the way the vast majority of audiophiles seem to want to know when every little bit of spittle hits the microphone. No idea what note a singer is singing, but you can feel each spittle launch off her teeth. I am not a spittle-counter. I want to enjoy the music. That calls for a warm natural sound, the way actual instruments sound, not actual instruments hyped up on audiophile steroids. 

But hey, don't take my word for it. Read the comments on my system page. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 One of my favorites is the guy who was wishing for a leaner more analytical sound while he was here- until he got back home and found he was missing a lot of the music and longing for what he heard at my place. From my Moabs. Just amazing speakers.

Are they prone to tipping from the height of them?

Not at all. The way I always move big heavy speakers like this is to tip them over to their natural balance point and then "walk" them one corner at a time. That is how I move into position. That is how I move onto spring platforms like Townshend Podiums. By far the easiest safest way for one man to move something like this.  

When doing this you will be surprised how far off vertical they tip just getting to the balance point. To where they can be balanced easily with one hand. Where they will tip over and fall is even further. Look how many people are using them on springs! They move almost zero on springs by the way. To tip one over, even on springs, you would have to put some real effort into it.  

Bottom line it seems to me you are inventing and imagining problems that do not exist. That there is zero evidence for. I can explain anything to anyone willing to listen. But if your mind is made up they are bright and harsh and diffuse and falling over left and right, well these are all the furthest things from the truth. But if your mind is made up then none of that matters. That is where the expression comes from by the way, mind over matter. 

nwres-

Still amazed at how well the Nobsound spring pods work under my Tekton's compared to other footers. Clarity, imaging and details across all frequencies. I modified them by securing 1/4 inch 20 threaded studs to each so I could level the speakers and I added gliders so I can easily re-position the speakers. When I upgrade to Moab's or Encore's I will definitely consider auditioning the Townshend products.

Yeah, the Nobsound springs are truly amazing. Springs require a bit of tuning but for guys like us willing to experiment and tweak the results are incredible. They easily outperform all kinds of spikes and cones and footers. The springs fit into 1/4" holes making it easy to build your own custom footers using just the Nobsound springs and your own acrylic, wood or aluminum and drill bit. 

Townshend Podiums and Pods cost a lot more but if you try them I think you will agree they are worth the extra. The main problem with Nobsound and other springs is they resonate and this colors the sound. A big reason they work so well is this coloration is less detrimental to the sound than a lot of the problems with grain and glare that are so common with other footers. Nobody notices those problems, they are ubiquitous, until going to Nobsound they are much less. It is like noise floor, it is so faint nobody notices until they do something to improve it. 

So Townshend eliminates the resonance and this is such a huge improvement you can hardly believe it. Everything just sounds so much more like what it is. Bass is still full and deep but a lot tighter and with even more extension. 

They are also designed in a way that makes them an absolute dream to level. With tall speakers like Moabs this is crucial. Does no good to have the bases be perfectly equidistant if they are tipped so the tweeters are off by inches. Mine are absolutely dialed in and with the image focus to prove it!

Podiums are sized two ways- by platform for speaker size and by springs for speaker weight. The range is pretty wide. My same Podiums would also be the right size for Encores and Ulfberht, and probably Double Impacts as well. It may well be the same ones would work under what you have now as well as what you are planning on later. John Hannant would be able to help you with that.

The main problem with Nobsound and other springs is they resonate and this colors the sound. A big reason they work so well is this coloration is less detrimental to the sound than a lot of the problems with grain and glare that are so common with other footers. Nobody notices those problems, they are ubiquitous, until going to Nobsound they are much less. It is like noise floor, it is so faint nobody notices until they do something to improve it.

i will not doubt at all here your experience with Townshend platform for sure being superior to the springs...

But when i used the springs, one set only under my speakers i was not totally satisfied...

I decided to put another set of 4 springs boxes on top of my speakers which are already loaded with damping concrete load around 75/80 pounds...

The 4 set of springs under the speakers and the others 4 sets on top of the speakers are then dyssimetrically compressed by the total load: one set is compress with the weigh of the speaker itself+the concrete, the other set only with the concrete load...

This create a huge difference in tonal accurate timbre perception immediately...

I think that it is because the dyssemetric tuned compression at the 2 opposite end of the box, decrease the negative impact of the internal resonance of the rectangular boxes... I am not a scientist...It is only anecdotal impressions with experiment...

I say that only to say that one set of springs is one thing, 2 sets are way better....If it is possible with the specific speakers shape someone own indeed...Not with the Moabs for sure....😁 I wrote this for users of box speakers....

My best to you and all....

Mine are somewhat similar. Townshend Podiums below, BDR Shelf on top. The Shelf on top is directly on the speaker cabinet. Nice improvement in clarity, detail and dynamics. 

MC and Mahgister, yes spring resonance is something I am looking into. I do also keep some mass loading on top of the speakers.  Each spring pod had 7 springs and there are 4 pods per speaker. I am considering putting some memory foam inside each spring. Not enough to limit the springs downward movement, but enough to damp. Will report once I give it a try. And MC, thanks for the tips on the Townshend podiums!

I trust you. 
   They do look amazing.
no, mind is not made up about searing highs.
nor tipping.
 Just asking. Always read your posts with great intent to soak your words up.   Still researching.........
thank you for your honesty, I learn new wisdom daily! Even at halfway to death age. 

MC and Mahgister, yes spring resonance is something I am looking into. I do also keep some mass loading on top of the speakers.

Try to put another 4 set of springs under a load around 75 and 80 pounds.... It is necessary to experiment for the exact commpressive force necessary by listening to around a 1% precision for the final load weight...

With a set of springs under your speaker and a set on top of them under the load the dyssimetric compressive force work miracles...For me at least...

Speaker rectangular box resonate and this help greatly...

arcticdeth, I am if anything conservative in my descriptions. Moabs are seriously fine speakers. 

Looks like a terrific deal.
Pardon my ignorance, but why is there a ground with the speaker outputs?

Oh man you really do crack me up sometimes. There is always a ground. Think about it. 

That's a good deal tvad!

Black is ground thecarpathian.

Oh, for goodness sake.
I really need to look at things closer before asking what I realize now is a very dumb question. Saw in my head an extra 2 ground outputs.

You could ground the woofer basket which some do or attach an E Loop from Exemplar Audio which I use that does improves the sound. Even on my subs their use improves the midrange of my monitors running full range..go figure,  their benefit is obvious. I use the eloops on the negative terminal.My amps have only 2 terminals.
Tom

nwres-

MC and Mahgister, yes spring resonance is something I am looking into. I do also keep some mass loading on top of the speakers. Each spring pod had 7 springs and there are 4 pods per speaker. I am considering putting some memory foam inside each spring. Not enough to limit the springs downward movement, but enough to damp. Will report once I give it a try. And MC, thanks for the tips on the Townshend podiums!

Almost missed this what with all the sage audiophiles trying to figure out speaker connections. 😳

Springs are great, tuned and tweaked springs even better, but Townshend Podiums are in a league of their own. Have you tried them?

Hey, there were 6 outputs.
It was all very confusing.
These cutting edge advancements are hard to keep up with.
Audio sure is complicated!