Technics SL1200 Footer thread size?


I've done a search of the threads, but I can't find the answer.

Does anyone know the thread size of the Technics SL1200 footers?

Thanks in advance.
tvad
Its called M6, Mapleshade makes some excellent ones!
SB
Is M6 the same as 6mm?
M6 is the correct thread size, and the Mapleshades are very nice, but perhaps overkill on the SL-1200. I use these on my SP-15 (same thread size):

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-717

and they work great at considerably less expense.

David
Adona Corp has some really nice ones also. I have bought MANY sets from them. They have a beautiful GOLD finish set. Link is below:

http://www.adonacorporation.com/tweaks.html
Tvad,

M6 = 6mm diameter, yes, and for a bolt you also have to specify the length, usually in centimeters. More info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread

David
I use the PartsExpress cones too. Supplied threads happen to be an exact match for the SL12x0 series. Very noticeable improvement when I replaced the stock feet with these cones and then set the TT on a thick butcher block cutting board.

At about the same price as the Mapleshade brass heavyfeet, http://www.kabusa.com offers the Isonoe Footers, which are also supplied with M6 threads and designed to be a premium replacement for the standard feet.
The reason I asked about M6 vs. 6mm is that sometimes the distance between threads is different even though the diameter of a bolt is 6mm.
Not sure if I'm going to replace the Technics' feet, but I was considering brass footers from Starsound Technologies (Audiopoints), or the Isonoe feet.

I recently installed a sandbox under the Technics (designed by Thom Mackris of Galibier Design, and built by Timbernation), that has made an improvement over the Neuance platform I was using previously. The image is larger and clearer, and my perception is that the volume level is higher at the same setting on my preamp. That's probably not true though.

Anyway, the rig sounds great as it is, and I have no huge desire to change the feet, but I was curious about what adding brass feet might do.
01-31-09: Tvad
The reason I asked about M6 vs. 6mm is that sometimes the distance between threads is different even though the diameter of a bolt is 6mm.
Yes, that's called the pitch, In USA thread specs, it can be referred to as fine pitch, medium pitch (I think), and coarse pitch. I'm no expert, (though I've done some basic work on metric-spec autos), but I've never come across a similar pitch descriptor for metric threads--at least of what shows up in the US.

From experience, I can tell you that the thread diameter and pitch of the female threads in the base of the Technics TTs, the male threads of the stock feet and the Parts Express cones are all a perfect match, and I've read enough testimonials here to safely say that the thread and pitch of the Mapleshades and Isonoes are a match as well.

It also appears that one of the cone sets at http://www.adonacorporation.com/tweaks.html is the same as the PartsExpress ones, and are about the same price.
01-31-09: Tvad
Not sure if I'm going to replace the Technics' feet, but I was considering brass footers from Starsound Technologies (Audiopoints), or the Isonoe feet.

I recently installed a sandbox under the Technics (designed by Thom Mackris of Galibier Design, and built by Timbernation), that has made an improvement over the Neuance platform I was using previously.
Long after I platformed my SL12x0 (wherein I noticed a significant improvement), I swapped out the stock feet for the Parts Express cones. The sound improved quite noticeably (my wife immediately heard the difference). All of a sudden I got the inner detail I'd been missing. Clarity took an overall jump, as well as a bit of speed, microdynamics, and a little bit of frequency extension. My platform is nowhere as sophisticated as yours, however, either before or after.
The image is larger and clearer, and my perception is that the volume level is higher at the same setting on my preamp. That's probably not true though.
This is a classic description of what happens when the noise floor is lowered. Low level detail pops out and everything seems louder.

Isonoe tests confirm that when you get the entire foot with the glass puck and the sorbothane boots, the Technics noise floor drops by a full 3dB. While this may not sound like so much, it's actually huge because it means your amp would have to be putting out twice the power as before to reach the same level of feedback. As a semi-educated guess, your description of the platform swap sounds like a 1.5dB lowering of the noise floor.

I *think* that brass cones transfer vibration from whatever the fat end is touching to whatever the point is touching. They would also make it difficult for in-room vibrations to travel up the cone in the other direction. If I'm correct, then brass cones would transfer turntable base vibrations into your vibration-absorbing platform.

Isonoe footers are designed to buffer vibrations both ways--they should neutralize in-TT vibrations while also isolating the turntable from the room. If you have another means to level the TT besides the threaded feet, one solution I've wondered about would be to place the (footless) turntable on a set of Vibrapod cones, which have Vibrapod feet under them. In this implementation the cones' metal balls would rest in the TT's foot threads. I would think that the Vibrapod foot/cone approach would do the same sort of thing for less money ($56 as opposed to $200+), but I don't know if this inexpensive approach would lower the noise floor by as much (3dB).
Anyway, the rig sounds great as it is, and I have no huge desire to change the feet, but I was curious about what adding brass feet might do.
I feel like my Technics didn't really start giving up the music until I swapped the feet. My opinion is that the stock Technics feet hold back its performance significantly. If you try it and find out otherwise, the worst that would happen is to have to pay return shipping.
I have no interest in Parts Express, Dayton or Adona cones...especially those with the adjustable tips at the end of the cones. These brass footers do not drain vibration as effectively as solid AudioPoints or Mapleshade footers. I've owned the Adona cones, and they're flimsy.

Are the Isonoe footers available with a home trial? I was under the impression the KAB stuff is basically "you-buy-it-you-own-it".
01-31-09: Tvad
Are the Isonoe footers available with a home trial? I was under the impression the KAB stuff is basically "you-buy-it-you-own-it".
If you go here, it spells the return policy out under the heading, "Returns." So in addition to return shipping there'd be a 6% re-stocking fee:
RETURNS

There is a 6% restocking charge applied to all returns. Scratched or otherwise abused products are not returnable. Books, Phono cartridges and Styli are not returnable. Exception for cartridges and styli, if they are returned unopened. Please call before returning merchandise to discuss your particular situation. Shipping charges are not refundable.

The isonoe website also lists Modwright as a dealer. Assuming they have any in stock, maybe they have a more generous return policy.
Thanks for checking on that.

I'll contact Dan.
JohnnyB53

What do you mean by "...platformed my SL12x0"?

Maybe you are referring to your cuttingboard?

Which is my other question: What does your cuttingboard sit on? rack? are there any other isolation devices in the stackup?

I am still on the stock feet, and my TT is on cuttingboard too.

thanks,
ed
02-01-09: Edo_musica
JohnnyB53

What do you mean by "...platformed my SL12x0"?

Maybe you are referring to your cuttingboard?
Yes, I'm referring to the cutting board. I know it's not very sophisticated, but I'm doing this on a shoestring and it works well for the money. I got the cutting board from Ikea for $25. I have Parts Express Dayton solid brass cones screwed into the bottom of the turntable in place of the Technics feet.
The SL12x0 sits on a 15"x17"x1.75" butcher block cutting board, and about 8 Vibrapod feet are under the cutting board, isolating the cutting board and turntable from the rack shelf it's all sitting on.

So from top to bottom, it's turntable-->brass cones-->cutting board-->Vibrapods-->rack shelf.
I have no idea how the sandbox would compare to the cutting board, but at $220 including shipping, plus a bag of play sand from Home Depot, the sandbox is a good value in the world of audio. It would not seem to be out of reach for you Johnnyb53, but that's not for me to determine.
Thanks JohnnyB for the clarification or your setup. I need to work on my stack.

cheers, ed
Since this is about the SL1200 I thought this might be related enough.....

I've decided to move my 1210 TT to a more permanent place. Though not the final place, that will be an audio rack in the distant future. As a part of the relocation of the TT on my table that holds my amp center speaker and TV, I wanted to try out the racquet ball feet approach.

I purchased racquetballs after reading about their ability to reduce vibrations transferred to the TT. I know about spiked metal feet, isonodes, Isonoe Footers as replacements for the stock feet. I wonder about the nicely make isonoe feet but they are $180. My 1210 has a KAB fluid trough, and I use a isoplatmat and herbies mat under the LP.

I am finding that the racquetballs are better than the stock technics feet for reducing ambiant vibrations. I tested these variations:

(1) TT on Racquet balls resting on rack shelf
(2) TT on Racquet balls on cutboard which was resting on rack shelf
(3) TT on stock feet on cutboard resting on rack shelf
(4) TT on stock feet on cutboard with Racquetballs under resting on rack shelf

What I am calling a Rack shelf is an ikea coffee table similar to LACK construction.

The way I determined the amount of vibration being transferred was to observe the speaker driver while stepping, tapping, and hand pounding on the shelf and hardwood floor. Setup #4 was by far the worst as the. There was hardly any difference between #2 and #3. With #1 I could hit my closed hand down hard inches from the TT and the woofer barely moved and there was no associated sound same for heavy footsteps less than a foot away. BTW no music was playing but the stylus was resting on an LP and the volume was increased slowly to get to normal listening level.

I think the raquetballs look very clugey, but they work. Not bad for less than $10 for 6 balls. Leveling maybe off a degree or so but that is what is great about the 1210. I just ordered a bubble level.

Another day while listening to music I decided to make a video to show the abuse I gave the set up.

Video 1: the pound/tap test: http://www.vimeo.com/3427722

Video 2: the door shut/stomp test: http://www.vimeo.com/3427932

I ultimately may end up with a sandbox but want to design my own, though not build it. Brass feet may work in that set up. I will watch this thread for others experiences with them.

My current TT setup still sounds great to me. It's very dynamic and the noise floor is extremely low to me-which is was on the stock feet and butcher block. Now, with the rubber balls, it can just handle having a bunch of people around while it is playing-I have hardwood floors.

cheers, ed
How are you leveling the turntable using only the raquet balls underneath?

03-02-09: Tvad
How are you leveling the turntable using only the raquet balls underneath?
Tvad

Tvad, I have yet to level it. Rough measuring shows it is even. I am getting a level soon-ordered.

Still experimenting.

cheers, ed
Hey Tvad, are you the one who got an AT150MLX cartridge and got rid of it because it revealed too much surface noise (or was that Viridian)?

I did a little platforming tweak to my SL1210 that dropped the surface noise like a stone.

Basically, put threaded cones on the SL12x0, get some floorsavers at least 1-5/8" in diameter, and place these on a set of #2 Vibrapods. Situate the cone points on the floorsavers on the Vibrapods. Place that on a platform (I use a butcher block cutting board) and pad the cutting board with a couple of 19" gel wristpads made for computer keyboards. Or you could use another set of Vibrapods under the cutting board.
I did sell the AT150Mlx.

I bought another about three months ago, but I have not mounted it. My Dynavector XX MK II sounds too good.

I installed a sandbox designed by Thom Mackris of Galibier Designs under my SL1200, and that has made a significant improvement. I have no plans to tweak the table further.

so johnny you are running an AT150? I am too. surface noise not an issue here.
03-02-09: Tvad
I installed a sandbox designed by Thom Mackris of Galibier Designs under my SL1200, and that has made a significant improvement. I have no plans to tweak the table further.
Well, since you were entertaining the thought of upgrading the feet, I was just trying to share my most recent experience in case you find it useful.
Thanks. Appreciated.
Thought this would be a good place to ask this question: What is the adjustment range of the various footers and spikes mentioned in this thread? I have a very uneven floor in my basement and now use piles of coins atop Vibrapods to level my TT. I am talking unevenness of an inch or more here, not just a few mm. So, do you know what the adjustment range is on the Technics footers? The Isonoes? The Parts Express spike footers? Any others? I need as much adjustment range as possible! TIA.
The adjustment range of the Technics footers is about 1/4" from what I recall.
Since I'm no longer using my Technics footers, I measured one and the stud is just short of 1/2" long. Of course, the adjustment range would be less than that as you'd need to leave a few threads screwed in to the base for stability, so Tvad is pretty close, maybe just a hair more than 1/4" total.

The studs on the Parts Express cones I use are much longer, so the range is probably 1/2" or more. Since the cones also have a threaded receptacle, you'd need to leave a few threads screwed in on both ends. If you need an inch or more of adjustment range, I don't think they'll do it unless you buy some threaded rod and make longer studs.

Having an inch of M6 threads exposed would be far less than ideal. I've thought about applying some Loctite to the cone ends, but haven't done it yet. That might lend a bit more stability. You could also try nuts to back up against the base and cones. If my floor were as uneven as yours, I'd make wooden spacers (in place of the coins) that would get you in the ballpark of level, then only do the fine adjustment with the feet.

David
Yeah, Armstrod's right. I'd say I had a hair over 1/4" total. More like 9/32".
Bondmanp, I'd recommend you try to get your rack as level as possible so you don't have to do all the correcting at the turntable feet. What kind of rack are you using? Surely you could put some adjustable feet on the rack as well? If your rack feet are adjustable by 3/4" and your turntable by 3/8", then you have the range you need to level your turntable. Or you could get a wall-mount rack for your turntable so it's independent of floor aberrations.
Bondamp, various thicknesses and durometers (softness) of sorbothane sheets can be purchased at resaonable prices from Mcmaster.com.

I used a few stacked pieces of 1/8" sorbothane to level my turntable when the adjustment of the footers was not sufficient. I recommend 50 durometer or harder. Anything softer will deform if too many layers are stacked.

Mcmaster.com calls the material soft polyurethane rather than sorbothane, but a search for sorbothane will return the correct catalog page.
Tvad's sorbothane suggestion is a good one, as I've done the same thing. McMaster Carr has a wide variety of sizes and durometers. Be aware, however, that sorbothane will compress over time, so if you're using different thicknesses under different feet you'll need to check your level periodically and readjust the feet to compensate.

Johnnyb53's recommendation to get the rack level first will cut down both on the thickness of sorbothane you'll need and the adjustment range of the feet.

David
I'd been using the brass parts-express cones until just recently. I liked them way better than the stock feet, and even my wife agreed they made the music sound quicker. A few days ago, I switched them out for a set of four Golden Sound DH Cones(large). The DH cones have all the quickness of the brass, but lose a layer of brassy harshness in the treble. So treble sounds smoother, but not laid back. The midrange sounds warmer and bass is smoother and deeper. Two of my test tracks for this were "St Thomas" on Sonny Rollins "Saxophone Colossus" and "Walk on the Wild Side" by Lou Reed. on "St Thomas", the opening drums now really get my foot tapping, and the sax sounds more realistic. On "WOTWS", it is much easier to follow both the electric bass and upright bass at the same time, compared to listening with the brass feet. I really like the DH cones a lot.

BTW, they are unthreaded, and are just stuck in the spots where the feet go by double sided tape.

Also, I have my Technics on an Apollo wall shelf, which I'd really recommend. Technics don't suffer the footfall issues that cause people with suspended decks to go for wall shelves. But it does clean up the sound a lot, the bass in particular.

Neither the DH cones or the Apollo are dirt dirt cheap, but they aren't too bad either. I actually used money from records I sold to pick up the shelf. Definitely a good trade.
Thanks for all the helpful advice. Levelling the rack is not a very convenient option. It is a double-wide (TV-type) VTI rack on casters. The casters are needed because I need to be able to roll the rack out for access to the rear of the gear, and also to clear a sewer pipe cap that sticks up out of the floor. Someone also suggested placing a butcher-block type platform on nylon wedges, apparently available at hardware stores, to level the 'table. But I may try the sorbothane idea Tvad posted. It will be a little while, probably, but I'll keep y'all posted.
in nightclubs we used breeze blocks with concrete slabs on top with zero feedback
A tip I got from a nightclub DJ was to use those wide gel pad wrist rests for computer keyboards. I got a pair and use them under the heavy butcher block cutting board I use as a platform. But I also have a layer of Vibrabpod Isolators and Cones plus threaded brass cones between the turntable and the top of the butcher block.