Sorry Millercarbon but totally disagree with you on if it is good here it will be good elsewhere.
On one demo we compared AQ cables from the Fire, Wind, Water series vs the comparable models from Wireworld, Platinum, Gold and Silver Eclipse, and the differences between the two cable lines was very audible as families of sound with discernable differences between models on the same system.
These differences were heard by two different clients who were at the shop as well as by us and no one was there for a cable demo.
In terms of things that interact all things interact, yes there are things that sound good in all systems, we do recommend both Isotek or Audio Magic power conditioners and we have tested many different ones, vs Audience, Running Springs, AQ, Shunyata, and Synergistic to name a few and they all did differnt things and brought out different strengths and weakness.
We have found that amplifier can totally change the sound of a set of speakers, same with digital, cables etc.
Synergies are figured out by most dealers by trying diffent combinations of products until they come up with a system that they feel is really good.
Over the years there have been tons of combinations that dealers figured out worked together, the Ayre, Vandersteen, AQ system, the Spectral, Mit, Avalon setups of the 90's. For us the Paradigm Persona T+A combo.
So yes it is chaotic up to a point when you listen to gear and compare different products you will figure out what the family of sound is.
You have an Ifi DSD Pro the sound of that dac is warm and liquid no matter the filter, vs a Lumin or a Mytek dac which sounds cleaner and leaner.
So if you have a bright pair of speakers a warmer tube based dac is going to be a good match, vs a wamer speaker such as a Vandersteen or a Harbeth where brighter digital such as Mytek would be a better choice to compensate for that warmth that a speaker makes.
The system that you eventually bought was a combination of components that you found that worked well synergistically.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Yes Mike but other times not the case. Many years ago at SBS the combination of a Cat preamplifier plus a Vac amplifier was the amazing pairing. The CAT amplifiers altough they were expensive didn’t have the drive that the VAC amplifiers did and the VAC Renissance amplifiers driving the Wilson WP 3/2 or the 5 was just magical.
So just because you have an expensive power amp and preamplifier combo from the same company doesn’t mean that combination will work wonders all the time.
Some of the worst systems were made up of the same companies amp, preamp and cd player and or dac. Sometimes those systems sounded great. The all Krell systems of the 90’s for example the Krell amp and preamps were good, but you could find a more magical front end with the EAD dacs or the Audio Notes coupled with the same Krell gear.
Why because sometimes too much of one companies sound is too much in one direction.
For example: a clean sounding solid state like a Krell or a Levinson of yore type of amplifier, combined with a clean sounding solid state preamplifier, plus a clean sounding transistor based digital front end, plus clean detailed loudspeakers with metal or ribbon tweeters, the sound of that system will not be involving, you will hear everything but without any sense of warmth or body to the sound.
So in this scenario you would want to revoice the system with perhaps a warmer tube preamplifer, or a warmer tube or tube like digital front end.
Sometimes the combination of a companies amp and preamplifier does indeed sound better, Luxman and Luxman works well, T+A amp and preamp works well for example
We sold Bryston the 4B sst 2 series the last ones, and the Bryston amp plus the Bryston preamp the BP 26 was awful, howerver, change the Bryston preamplifier to a Conrad Johnson and the combo was magical as the Bryston power amplifer was clean, punchy, and had great bass control and when warmed up with a tube preamplifier the sound became much more involving.
We have sold BAT tube preamplifiers with Krell and Chord amplifiers and again that combo was great, same with a CJ GAT preamp and a Chord power amplifier.
So you actually have to audition the companies preamp and amplifier together with your intended speakers and then try a different preamplifier such as a tube CJ, or Backert, etc and see if the combination works wonders.
We have a Manley Labs 300B preamplifier and boy does that preamplifier make many a solid state amplifier sound fantastic, we have sold that preamplifier with the Electrcompaniet AW 250 and the sound is far superior than the matching Electrocomapniet preamplifier.
So the moral of the story is that you have to play and experiement until the system sounds the way you want it to. This does require more work but usally you will be rewarded with a much more captivating sound system.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Three easy pieces
It is really simple select the speakers first based on physical size, finish, spl desired, bass output, efficiency, price.
Then select electronics to go with speakers some speakers are great with tubes usually horns, some speakers require massive current ie big solid state.
Then digital to flavor system some dacs are bright others are warm.
Cables are then auditioned to bring out what you are looking to compliment.
Cables have a sound or highlight certain freq.
Simple really the issue is the myriad of choices and combos possible.
Sometimes you have to audition a lot of combos before you strike gold.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor |
Ahofer most cables are measured for inductance, resistance and capacitance.
However the sonic differences between cables is much more than their electrical differences.
Many things in audio have not been correlated just by measurements alone
If you listen to a Kubala Sosna cables vs an Audioquest vs a Nordost vs a Wireworld you will all hear differences that are not really tied to their electrical properties alone.
We have sold all of these brands and each had a distinctly different sonic signature for this reason you have to try different cables in your own system.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor |
Mike look at the high frequency graph of the Aeriel 7T and you will see it dips at many freqencies above 10k the speaker is shelved in the top end the Bryston/Bryston combo therefore would sound pleasing.
On a brighter speaker the Brystons can sound a bit too sterile hence the use of a tube preamplifier.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Yes Kost just like John Atkinson Jason Serinius Doug Schneider and all the Absolute Sound, Stereohile, and Soundstage writers guess you think you know more about system design then all of us right? |
Kost you dont know a damm thing.
Most reviewers dont use measurements to codify a review they use their ears.
Its like taste. Go to the best steakhouse in town and order their 2 month old aged sirloin. Now go to your local Diner and order theír best steak.
Willing to bet they taste the same right?
Can you measure sublime flavors?
Dont think so but you know it when you taste it.
Can you identify which tastes better by measuremets? What over tone is more pleasing to your Ear? Can you quantify more pleasing?
A bit more abstract then just resistance and impedance or amounts of feedback.
If you have just great ingredients does that means you can prepare a great dish?
Or is it necessany to produce a truly, great dish, to have a combination of conditions, great chief, great tools, great steak and the right proportions.
A great steak doesnt happen by itself nor does a great hifi. |
Mhofer, this debate has been going on for a long time on these forums, you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe.
We have done many, many, live cable demos where just swapping a cable has made sometimes an enourmous sonic difference.
The fact that the electrical difference between two cables is very slight, there are things going in in transmission that are not really quantified by just measurements.
We cite a very good example on the validity of emprical data.
Buy a bottle of Château Lafite Rothschild for $900
Buy a bottle of Ripple $3 dollars
Pour both one at a time into a gas Chromatigraph, get the results on a molecular level both wines are made out of exaclty the same organic compounds so why do they taste differently?
The computer shows scientifically they are the same, so how come taste doesn't work the same way?
Why the specimen of grapes, the age of the vines, the care in manufacturer.
The real anwear is that cable designer start with ideas on what causes audible changes and then comes out with a design.
If you think cables all sound the same listen to a pair of Nordot Vallhalas, and then listen to a set of Kubala Sosnas boy will you hear a difference.
Same system same components.
Now are cables worth their high prices different equation.
A 355/40/20 inch high performance tire costs $800 for a Pirelli P Zero what is the cost to make such a tire, probably around $100.00 basic ingredients in a tire some woven steel belts and rubber hadly expensive items.
When we go on a tuning session we bring inteconnects, and power cables, power conditioning, footers, and other such devices, we took a gentleman's poor sounding pair of Kef Ref 5 sound better than a local audio stores $300k system all by the application of these principles and techniques.
One power conditioner company years ago said that if power was like water your components would be drinking from a Toilet.
Is there a difference between ice cold, properly filtered mineral water and toilet water served at room temperature? Same glass, way different experience.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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