They look interesting, Ted and Elliott never fail to impress me with their cables. I will see them next week.
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I recently sold my Apex Speaker cables, and decided to try out the new Tungsten. After about 80-100 hours burn in time, the conclusion is that they outperform the Apex when it comes to soundstage, broader, deeper and higher. The difference is not night and day, but easily noticeable.
But be aware, they are not merely Apex copies, the sound is also a bit different. There is a shift up in the frequencies, with some more focus and energy in the higher tones, somewhere from 1000hz and upwards. This makes the cable sound airy and smooth, again, not day and night difference, but you properly will notice it within 10 seconds... (If not, you should check out your ears). This new focus area for the cable, might give the impression there is something missing in the mid area, less body and weight. I'm not sure. After listening to different sources, my conclusion so far is that this is not the case. It's the same as with the Apex, but with added energy in the high frequencies it's easy to get the wrong impressions.
The deep bass goes a little bit further down, and has some more dynamic to it, a bit more precise than the Apex. But again, is something missing from mid bass and up? Or is the cable just a bit more linear than the Apex? It might be so, but I need to live with the cable some more days to be able to conclude on that one.
So, yes it is a "better" and a more modern cable, if I may say so, than the Apex. It's not a big step, but a noticable step forward: It sounds bigger, quieter (less noise), smoother, more resolved, with more dynamic and with better linearity than the Apex, (but with added energy in the heights). This means it can also sound a bit Teflon-like, more Hi-Fi when directly compared with the Apex.
Can I live happily with the Tungsten, as I've done with the Apex for several years? I can already give you the answer to that, because I've also tried the Tungsten with the Galileo Speaker Cells from SR. With the Cells added, the positive sides of the Tungsten are highly strengthened, the feeling of air, smoothness, big, dynamic sound, body and holography is just there. So much that I have the real feeling of entering the concert hall. This is by far the best sound I've had in my room, and the cables and Cells are there to stay.
My experience goes back to the 50's. Too long a story to relate here. And irrelevant, actually. What is relevant is the discussion.
The world was once thought to be flat. This illusion lasted for a very long time. Until it was supplanted. Just because something is widely accepted does not make it true and does not make what is not widely accepted or understood ipso facto untrue -- and fair game for contempt and derision. A recent example of this in the audio business are resonator bowls. Franck Tchang was not greeted with open arms when he invented them. Yet today they are widely recognized as very effective room treatment devices to the extent that they have been copied by 2 well-known companies.
I am not in the audio business.
Bjesien, I understand. If I sent you a photo of the wires behind (and in front of) my system you would see something that audiophiles rarely exhibit in public. A mess. I run IC's and PC's in series. All over the place. One day I may put it up on Virtual Systems. I'm sure a lot of people would get a good laugh out of it.
For me the sound is the most important thing. Not the aesthetics. I am lucky that this is in a private room dedicated to my music, library and computer. So I don't have to worry about the missus. In fact, the transformation of my system in recent months has made the unslightly wires disappear for her. Complaints have given way to the comment "good" accompanied by a lovely dance.
I climbed the SR ladder for a while with a mix of acoustic reference and precision reference. Also the power system with some precision and hologram a and d cables with the powercell 10 se mkII. Most I owned and some was on loan including the tuning system.
After a while with my wife getting all over me with the vibratron and then trying to hear nuances after several different bowls I had a hard time focusing on the music.
The vibratron was good but always had to be be positioned depending upon my/her mood or tone of the singer. It became tiring to say the least and I eventually decided to go with something more simple but unfortunately more expensive.
SR does have stimulating products and I think you might be in a different position than me to explore some of the finer combinations, like the Galileo speaker stings. Have you tried them?
I have been using the universal cells for 2 years now. first with precision ref interconnects and speaker cables and now for the last 3-4 months with the element tungsten interconnects and speaker cables. You cant go wrong either way. But the elements turned out to be awesome in my system. Synergistic products always have an amazing stage, the elements takes the stage out to your neighbours, if u know what i mean :)))
Synergistic is a no brainer....take it from a long time user
I previously had the Apex (with Galileo MPC) and Precision Reference i/c's.
Now am running in a Copper-Tungsten-Silver from my CD player and Tungsten from pre to power.
I have noticed a clear step up in the holographic staging where everything has it's own place and it just makes it so clear as to what is playing from where, without overlap of instruments/vocals.
Additionally, the bass impact and dynamics are very good indeed - along with the fine details coming through, that really allows me to follow along with what's going on in the mix.
There is a difference in the treble presentation - but I am not yet sure if it's too much of a good thing. To be fair, this has tamed somewhat during running in and I only have 100 odd hours done so far and despite the website saying that 100 hours is enough, Ted informs me that 200-300 is ideal, so I am withholding judgement just yet. I am running them 'passively' rather than using the MPC's due to Moon telling me that I should not use the active shielding with my P8/W8 amps.
They do appear a bit less musically involving and lacking in a touch of warmth [via the grey tuning bullets] but this is still improving, so I hope they will come good in that respect. It's just a slightly more "matter-of-fact" presentation thus far.
They are SO good in many ways, I will be happy if the touch of warmth and musicality comes on song in the remainder of run-in time, so fingers crossed there!!
Sabai wrote, "Too long a story to relate here. And irrelevant..."
Your experience is neither too long nor irrelevant when you are bashing someone else who is well-known in these forums and who is acknowledged as extremely experienced.
You may not agree with Audiofeil, but no one can legitimately challenge his experience. On the other hand, I find it amazing you have been making lots of authoritative posts lately, but when asked to offer your experience you give some lame answer, "Too long a story to relate here. And irrelevant..."
Time to either put up or stop calling others out.
With all due respect, my posts have been respectful to a fault. If there is any "bashing" going on it is coming from others who choose a tone that is less than respectful. An evaluation of the experience of various posters is a moot point. We need only stick to the issues at hand.
I do not challenge Audiofeil's experience. I challenge the tone of his posts. I believe everyone here deserves respect. If one cannot give respect then one cannot expect to always receive it in return. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you -- the Good Book says.
The issues I have raised and the fact they have been answered by a combination of deafening silence by some and vitriol by others is proof enough that I have ample experience -- certainly enough to raise more than one pair of eyebrows here.
I mean once she is able to get the Vibratron into position all is well. I mean really well. With the Vibratron tweaked one way or the other the household is not the same. Sometimes it takes me hours to get my system mojo back.
When it is back though, a good quantum tunneling is in order. I have access to the unit so we do alright.
I recently "borrowed" four XLR cables from the Cable Company.All were 1 meter in length with an MSRP of roughly 1-2K$.All four sounded bettter( a couple only marginally so) then my long term reference ZU Varial. I connected them between my PS Audio MKII DAC & my Cary SLP-05 preamp.The one cable that really stood out was the Synergistic Research tungsten element. Even a non audiophile but music loving friend was very surprised by the change. He said" I find it hard to believe that just changing one cable could make such a difference." The most noticeable difference was the soundstage. This cable is a soundstaging champ.It might sacrifice a little(very little)detail to one of the others I tried but it was bar none easily the best of the four I auditioned.I have never had a speaker,power or interconnect cable make such an instant positive impression on me and others as this one did.I have been in this hobby for a while and with most cables the differences or changes I have heard are much closer to subtle then dramatic.Subtle differences allow me to keep my money in my wallet.I am glad that it was the last cable I auditioned because it made the decision to purchase one very easy even though it was the most expensive of the four.In the future as funds permit I plan to try additional Element interconnects in my system.
I'm auditioning the Tungsten interconnect against some JPS Labs and VooDoo interconnects, all in the $1.3 - 2k per pair range. The Tungsten is hands down the best of the bunch and the difference is readily noticeable. It significantly expands the soundstage and images more palpably. It also does subtle things such as instrumental decay better, probably by virtue of having a quieter background. Instruments sound more articulate and nuanced. I haven't noticed greater bass quantity but it is better defined / tight. I agree that there are gobs of high frequency details and it will a few days to decide if it really is more details or just punched up artificially. But overall this is a very enjoyable cable.
I've been using the silver tuning bullet. The other two are a bit too dark or liquid sounding for my taste (I prefer open and airy) but I could happily live with the grey.
I have started using the Master Built (by Delphi Aerospace) cabling and to date it is the best I have used. Easily outperforms the SR gear I had. Master Built is fairly new to the audio world but is extremely musical.
For the record, the "bible never ever stated the world was flat, in fact the opposite". Not sure how the folks in the dark ages came up with that....
I highly recommend that anyone with Tesla line Power Cables to audition the new Element Power cables.
I upgraded to Element Power Cords. The new Element CTS Analogue and Digital power cords and Element Copper/Tungsten Power Cord with 32-amp connecter on the Powercell 10SE Mk.III Power Conditioner. These NEW power cords are completely different than the Tesla line and are much more open and quieter with an increase detail cause blacker background. Complete system upgrade over the Tesla line Power Cables!!!
There is a new review of the Element series cables from Synergistic Research on the StereoTimes website.
They test out the the new Element Power cables and also the Powercell 10 SE Mk.III and other products.
Check it out.
The Stereo Times review is a typical review/ad. The reviewer quotes lengthy passages from the SR site instead of embedding a link. It all adds up to "the new reference" -- until a newer reference comes along to supplant it. All of a sudden, the hyperbole describing the old reference will be forgotten, just like the last time.
I note the reviewer states: "My first experience with a Synergistic Research (herein SR) product was the groundbreaking A/C Master Coupler back in 1995." The ground-breaking Master Coupler was the reference. Its brochure makes it sound like the new Element series.
How black can the background get? How deep and wide can the sound stage get? How much detail can the product reveal? How transparent and dynamic can it be? How much credibility do manufacturers and reviewers have?
I have not tried any new S.R Element power cords myself but HiDiamond has a new flagship Power 4 power cord that will take your system to new levels and for half the price of a S.R Element copper/tungsten, copper/tungsten/silver A or D. Amazingly silent background and air around instruments, clarity and detail, and extremely neutral. Exceptionally well built and thick gauge and fairly flexible. I have never had such a well built cord as I have owned several S.R products. All I can say is for the S.R users to give this power cord a try and compare it. You will be amazed...
"After I read the Stereo Times review I came away feeling that I had a very good sense of what to expect from these products. I found their review typically clear, concise and to the point."
"In comparison, I find Stereo Times' reviews a breath of fresh air"
"The closest I have seen "with unbiased, to-the-point reviews" are Stereo Times reviews"
The breath of fresh air does not always apply with all Stereo Times reviews and it certainly does not apply here -- despite your implication that my quote is a blanket endorsement, which it is not. I like Clement Perry's reviews. This review was not a Clement Perry review.
Photos of the inside of Jack Bybee's Stealth power conditioner are available for viewing but I have not seen any photos of the inside of your PowerCell. I have heard that one customer opened up the PowerCell and was shocked with the contents. Would you kindly post photos of the inside of all your versions of the PowerCell so we can see what is inside so that we can compare them? It would be useful to have more than manufacturers' ad copy and reviewers' kind words with which to judge these expensive products.
First SR created all those extra wires that drives people up the wall trying to find a way to keep them all plugged in and keep them all organized -- and clean. Do you realize how many wires are going all over the place with a fully loomed SR system with each wire and component attached to at least one adapter (MPC)? No wonder why you never see a Virtual System with an SR loom. Do you have any idea what a gawd-awful mess that would look like? Did you notice that you see pretty back-lit photos of each wire on the SR site but they never show you a photo of what this wiring mess looks like in a real fully-loomed SR system? OK, then they invented an expensive box to plug all the MPC wires into -- which means the resale value of your expensive adapters (MPCs) just went to zero. But you can up-trade if you are willing to lose nearly all the value of your older equipment while spending twice as much on your next SR purchase as you spent on your last SR purchase. A bargoon.
02-25-13: Ted_dTOO FUNNY!!!
02-25-13: SabaiBLAH BLAH BLAH ... !!!
02-25-13: SabaiDo you buy it for the SOUND or admire the contents on your mantle? More pointless BLAH BLAH BLAH ... !!!
We are talking about build quality here. Have you ever heard of build quality before? This may have been mentioned once or twice on the forums although it may have eluded you. But if you did read these posts, did you add your blahhhhs to them, as well? If not, there is opportunity in THEM THAR HILLS !!!
You may want to read a recent post about the Nordost Qx4 that was cracked open to reveal ... precious little inside -- an overprices milled steel marvel. From the report I heard about the SR PowerCell being cracked open to reveal ... precious little inside -- an overpriced black box marvel. Inquiring minds may want to know when highly esteemed companies are indulging in such practices -- charging outrageous prices for parts that cost a pittance. Sophisticated design and marketing. If you do not have an inquiring mind you can just ignore all this. NO PROBLEM !!!
@Knghifi, I don't think thats what Sabai is trying to say that if he "Admires it or not", the issue at hand which Sabai is trying to ask which I totally agree with is what are the actual contents of the Powercell 10SE,MK2,MK3,MK4,MK5,MK6,MK7??????etc.
I myself owned a Powercell 10SE and my friends asked what is inside the unit and all I could say to them is that it has an Electromagnetic cell inside for $5000.00. Everything bought nowadays has a breakdown of the inside contents. Shouldn't the Powercells?
In my world, there's a difference between build quality and what's precious little inside. Build quality is very important where a product has to be reliable, durable ...
In regards to what's precious little inside, this is a question where customers have to answer for themselves and NOT isolated to high end audio. Thousands for Armani suit vs < hundred at Walmart ...
Besides cost of raw material, one needs to factor labor/expertise in building a finished product. High end audio is a niche market where demand and supply are low so prices will be high. Each has to decide if the product is snake oil or worthy of the asking price.
IE: HD P3 is $750 for 2m. Copper is $1.68 per oz ... P4 is $2100 ... 3x a P3, does P4 contains 3X more raw material+labor to build and WORTHY of the retail price?
How about the Bybee speaker bullets ... thousands for spade connectors.
No right or wrong but all individual decisions. If too many decide it's snake oil, company will go out of business.
For me, highest priority is sound quality so frankly don't care what's inside, specs, marketing jargon ... BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
When your friends ask you what's in the HD P3 and price. You tell them, copper and graphite ... $750 per 2M
How about P4, You tell them copper and graphite but 3X the price of P3.
Then what does your friends say next?
I know what my non-audiophile friends would say. BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! Just ignore them, we all have out own priorities and hobbies.
In my world it is always noted when a maker intentionally overbuilds to hide precious little inside -- and who then overcharges for the great "build quality" illusion.
A lot of high end audio is about clever marketing that is created in order to hoodwink people. Please note the Nordost Qx4 with silver tank-like repackaging of the QRT Quantum Symphony Pro. The Pro was packaged quite modestly yet does a wonderful job -- some say better that the tank-like Qx4 that costs many times the modest pro. The build quality of the Qx4 does absolutely nothing to enhance the quality of the sound. It was built that way to create a marketing illusion -- not because the box does anything -- except sell the product.
Please note the Synergistic Research PowerCell with black tank-like packaging that, according to reports, does absolutely nothing to enhance the quality of the sound. It was built that way to create a marketing illusion -- not because the box does anything -- except sell the product. Please note that Jack Bybee did not build a big black or silver tank to hide anything inside his Stealth.
I find it interesting that you do a Google search and find photos of the inside of the Bybee Stealth but you will never find a single photo of the inside of the Qx4 or the PowerCell.
For those with deep pockets this may add up to nothing more than a big yawn. Because, if the latest version of the PowerCell does not meet expectations, or if the Qx4 does not match the Pro, then who cares. They can be sold off at a loss -- who cares -- and replaced by another expensive product. Who cares.
In my world it is always noted when a maker intentionally overbuilds to hide precious little inside -- and who then overcharges for the great "build quality" illusion.Then don't buy it! Is somebody in your world twisting your arm? Boy, glad I don't live in a 3rd world country.
I find it interesting that you do a Google search and find photos of the inside of the Bybee Stealth but you will never find a single photo of the inside of the Qx4 or the PowerCell.Who cares what's inside if it doesn't sound good. Do you know why you're buying the product?
IE: If Rum wants to power his toaster, he can buy a copper PC off Ebay for $5. Now why does he spend $750 for a HiDiamond copper P3 and $2100 for a copper P4 PC? If the answer is NOT for the sound, then he's wasting his $$.
I bet cost of raw material to build the one off Ebay is close to the P3 and P4 but HD is able to manufacturer a PC that sounds better. You can't judge the book by it's cover but in this case, it's the precious little insides when quality of sound should be the most important reason for a purchase.
For those with deep pockets this may add up to nothing more than a big yawn. Because, if the latest version of the PowerCell does not meet expectations, or if the Qx4 does not match the Pro, then who cares. They can be sold off at a loss -- who cares -- and replaced by another expensive product. Who cares.Hmmm! I THINK the root of your frustrations / BLAH BLAH BLAH is your SHALLOW pockets???
After a few months with the upgraded CTS Analogue and CTS Digital power cords, I highly recommend that anyone with Tesla line Power Cables or anyone looking for something new to check out the new Synergistic Research Element Power Cables for a free in home audition. I also upgraded to the Powercell 10 SE Mk. III with tranquility base built in and new Element Copper/Tungsten Power Cord that has a 32-amp connecter. This power conditioner outperforms the previous Mk.II by a large margin. I agree with the Stereo Times review that I posted a link to above about the new Mk.III version. In addition, Synergistic Research won 2012 product of the year awards from The Absolute Sound, 2010, 2011 and 2012 Best of Show Awards and many many other positive reviews on review websites (E.g. 6moons, UltraAudio.com, Stereo Times, AudioStream.com)
I would like to hear from others that have tried or own the new Transporter that acts as a center to connect all the active shields into one spot, also how are the Tranquility Bases being used and their effects, plus anyone using the new Element and Galileo Power Cords, Element speaker and interconnect cables and any of the new digital cables. Synergistic also has a DAC called The Music Cable. Has anyone tried these products and post their reviews here.
Hi Gelaw, I got the cable today. But they sent me the wrong connectors. I needed spades, not banana connectors. I will have them correct this on Monday. I also ordered an Element Tungsten Power Cable for the Rel B3 to replace the T3 SE PC cord that was there and also ordered an Element Copper for on my CDP. The power cords will come late next week sometime. They are still on order cause the factory is backed up a few weeks with lots of orders for their new Element products.
If anyone have not yet DEMO the new Element Power Cable series yet, please do. They blew away the older Tesla line by miles and also crushed all the Hi-Diamond PC's I heard. Demo them and you will see what I'm talking about. They already won many awards and have to be heard. Much different from previous Synergistic Tesla stuff... MUCH different!!!