Mapman,
Thanks for letting me know. I agree -- with the economy the way it is this is probably a smart move that we may see others copying. |
Zd542,
You make a good point when you ask, "but are their products worth the money". In many cases, and I have owned a lot of Synergistic Research over the years, my answer is no, they are way overpriced for what they deliver. And what they deliver is often less than spectacular.
In this regard, here is a comment from a recent 6Moons.com review of the Synergistic Research Tranquility Base. The link to this review is ironically on Synergistic Research's own site:
"The Synergistic Research Tranquility Base is a very interesting product. It clearly influences the sound in a good way. It is prohibitively expensive but worthy at least a listen just to be aware of whatÂ’s possible."
This is a very tepid endorsement for a product that is "prohibitively expensive". |
Ted_d,
You make a good point about the price being double in Poland. If this is generally true of the pricing outside the US then the Tranquility Base will only be for the very well-heeled in those countries. As for US buyers, if they want to put a Tranquility Base under pre-amp, amp, DAC, transport and turntable they are looking at an expenditure of $10,000. I imagine this would be an eye-opening event for most of those participating on these forums, myself included. Based on the tepid endorsement of the Tranquility Base in the Polish review I don't know how many audiophiles would want to take the plunge, frankly. |
Fplanner2000,
Thanks for this information. I think the question is not that $1995 is more realistically priced than many other SR products because we are not talking about purchasing other SR products here. The question is whether one can obtain better value for the sonic dollar elsewhere. $1995 for one Base is no chickenfeed.
Your mention of "more realistically priced than many other SR products" coincides with my feeling that many SR products are not realistically priced for what they offer sonically -- except for those with very deep pockets. |
Fplanner2000,
With the tight economy it is very important for me and others to get the best possible value for our audio dollars. Searching for the best deals on the after market is essential. Finding products that can substitute for more expensive products is very important to me.
For example, I have found that a $300 Bybee AC Purifier on the after market can often equal or exceed the performance of an expensive Synergistic Research power cord that may retail for $1800 to $2800. You have to keep an eye out for Bybee products because they don't come up very often, but they do come up a few times a year. I have accumulated upwards of 20 Bybee products -- all bought on the after market. They are the best bang for my audio dollars that I have ever found.
I have also found that HiDiamond cables will exceed the performance of Synergistic Research cables -- and at a fraction of the cost. These are the kinds of products -- Bybee and HiDiamond -- that I look out for in this economy. I would not have an audio system without them. |
Joeyboynj,
I used to be a fully loomed Synergistic Research customer and was also reluctant to make the change. Once I dipped my toes in the HiDiamond water there was no going back -- definitely no buyer's regret here. |
Yoby,
I kept my Powercell and now run it in series with other front end components. |
Joeyboynj,
I have not tried the Element line so I don't know how it stacks up. I run cables and my front end in series so my system is different from many others. All I know is that, from my experience, you cannot beat having an isolation transformer in series with a power regenerator. Then you add the power conditioner of your choice. In that order. No matter what any power conditioner manufacturer says about their product it cannot come close. They are selling a one-box solution but, unfortunately, the solution does not come in one box. So they always have to market their latest line heavily to make the new imagine of "new and improved" take the place of the old image of "new and improved". It takes time to make the new one stick. There will be another "new and improved" line after the Element. Please be assured. And it will also be accompanied by superlatives. I remember when the SR Master Coupler was the latest and greatest.
Synergistic Research is not alone, of course. All manufacturers play the same game -- with variations on the theme. I remember when the Gillette blue double-edged razor was the cat's meow. I now shave with a 5-blade vibrating razor blade with a special gel strip. The Gillette Double Blue does not cut it anymore -- pun intended. As customers, it is our job to sort the wheat from the chaff, which is not an easy task when there are so many superlatives to choose from in the market place. For me, living abroad and not being able to audition products at home before purchase, this means that a lot of gear gets sold off.
Some Synergistic Research products work well in my series approach to cabling, but others do not. So far, the SR products that are staying are the Tesla 3 power cord, the Hologram D power cord and the Acoustic Reference ICs. That may change, but for now they are staying. The cables that are the mainstay of my system are the HiDiamonds. Without them the sound falls apart.
I am concentrating on room treatment at the moment. The SR ART is definitely staying. So are the Shakti Hallographs. I am waiting to add the Steinmusic Harmonizer System. My system is so resolving that, at this point, room treatment is the most logical place to put my audio dollars. |
Fplanner2000,
You stated, "The point here is VALUE.". I agree completely. For instance, I think that the Steinmusic Harmonizer System is a much better bet for sound transformation than one SR power cord. Some of the SR power cords cost way more than the Steinmusic System -- not to mention the cost of the Galileo MPC. Newbees may not know what direction to follow but people like you and me who have been around the block with this have more experience.
I agree with you about The Cable Company and SR's trade-up policy. I have talked about this extensively on the forums. Ted Denney of SR got mad at me on the forum a while back but, you know, there are two sides to the audio coin. There is the manufacturer's side and there is the customer's side.
Although I am keeping a few SR cables for now, I have also found MUCH better value -- and results -- with HiDiamond cables. You hit the nail on the head when you stated, "blatant audio cable greed".
Bacardi,
Your observation that SR has changed cable direct once again is spot on. I have commented on this myself in recent forums, incurring the ire of SR's Ted Denney. Who but the well-heeled can afford to go with a trade-up policy such as theirs or a pennies-on-the-dollar trade-in with The Cable Company every couple of years? My pockets are certainly not that deep. I have had to sell off a lot of gear on Audiogon. I'm glad they're here for the market they serve. But I take small haircuts most of the time and big ones when I am unlucky. I am about to take another big one with the pending sale of my Powercell 10SE MKII.
My guess is that HiDiamond will make quite an impact with SR customers. Many people like me and you are switching over -- with absolutely no buyer's regret. |
Joeyboynj,
I have not tried the new Element series so I cannot comment. But I can comment on your statement, "It really opens up the Powercell 10 SE the way you guys been hearing that conditioner is holding your system back." I can comment here because I own the Powercell. The fact that the new cord opens up the Powercell is an admission that the Powercell holds back the system, which is what I have recently discovered in my system. If you recognize that the new cord opens it up I must assume that SR recognizes this, too. Which means they realize that the Powercell holds back the system -- despite the assertions on their site written before the introduction of the new cord. |
Bacardi,
I'd be interested in hearing the results when you take out the PowerCell. There was absolutely no doubt that the sound opened up -- in my system. The Powercell was choking it off. I connect everything to my Bybee Stealth now and the system hums. But I will be experimenting with removing the Bybee -- eventually, when I get a power strip -- just to hear what the system sounds like without it. |
Joeyboynj,
The Powercell choked off the sound when I ran it in series with the Bybee Stealth. On its own it did not appear to constrict the sound until I compared it with the Stealth. But I always caution that this is in my system. I appreciate that SR does a lot of research and I still have a number of their cords in my system that I am happy with. But my system is in transition at the moment so my cabling may change. |
Knghifi,
The sighted leading the sighted. There are many users who are taking the Powercell out of their systems and who are finding the exact same thing -- that the Powercell was actually choking off the sound where this was not initially apparent. It is easy to mistake increased focus and refinement for an improvement to the overall sound. One always has to measure initial impressions against later observations once the system settles in and our perceptions of sonic attributes change along with those system changes.
You may note that I did not find it necessary to punctuate my comments with an inane LOL -- an emphatic expression certain posters use who have opinions about things they have not personally experienced. My comments actually stand on their own two feet -- without any emphatic expressions needed. |
Knghifi,
You stated, "Our approach is 180 degrees different. I believe simpler the better, less is more, no cable is the best cable ..."
Of course, I fully understand. But I run a lot of plug-and-play Bybee products in my system and I find that they work best when spliced between two cables instead of being plugged directly into a component. I realize this is unconventional and defies the commonly accepted approach, but it works. It is totally paradoxical and I have no explanation for its success. Tone controls? The tone is definitely affected, as well as many other sonic parameters.
There are other audiophiles using, up front, an isolation transformer > power conditioner > power regenerator with great success, like me. They have written about this in detail on another site forum. Those writing about this are also finding dramatic improvements in the sound. This up-front series approach also requires extra cabling, of course.
I imagine you are correct in that, if I kept adding wires, I would eventually choke off all the sound. The real choker was the Powercell -- it choked off the sound completely, which told me there was something seriously going on with the Powercell in spite of SR's claim that it is not current restricting. It obviously is current restricting, in some way.
My system is a work in progress. I am experimenting with taking cords out and re-configuring to see how this affects the sound. So far, I have not been able to take out any cables without the quality of the sound deteriorating.
Bacardi,
The Powercell is actively shielded when you plug in its MPC. |
Mapman,
Good question. There is no doubt that the sound improves with series cabling. But now that I have taken out the SR Powercell the dynamic may have changed for all I know. I will need to see what changes will happen to the sound when I take out different cables -- and then reinsert them. |
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Joeyboynj,
Regarding Bacardi, it is not against the law for someone to change their mind about a component if things change in their system. This has happened more than once with me when I swapped out a component and the sound improved. Since when do we have to stick with judgments that no longer apply to satisfy the need of others for "consistency"? |
