And here we go again with the "I’ve never heard it for myself, but I just know it has to be nothing more than (fill in your own blank here)," crowd.
Here are some samples to use to fill in the blank, just in case you’re a neophyte, or new to the small group of the perpetually annoyed that lurks on this site:
I can tell you how to better spend your money.
Yer just plain nuts.
Yer gonna burn yer house down.
You don't really believe this, do you? Really??
In the meantime, the rest of us will continue exploring the rarified air of exotic tweaks; PC’s, IC’s, Gates, Pastes, Mats, HFT’s, ECT’s, PHT’s, Red, Black, Blue, and Orange fuses, and yes, even various cable lifters, including the new ones from Synergistic Research, and we will gleefully be reaping the benefits from the cumulative effects of the same, while the Negative Nellies and Debbie Downers continue looking through the wrong end of the telescope, shaking their heads in disdain, clicking their tounges, and wagging their fingers at the rest of us, while wondering if that new, expensive piece of electronics, or if that new pair of totally weird looking speakers will finally get them to where they want to be in this hobby.
I've souped up my Volkswagen Golf to get 500 miles to the gallon. It's amaaaazing!
Now, do you think you have to have personal experience driving my car, before having any reason to be skeptical? Would I score points against your skepticism by complaining "But you haven't TRIED it for yourself, so you have no grounds to poo-poo my claim!" ?
Remember the old adage: Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. Right?
Haven't tried these from SR, but I do use cable elevators and they do make a difference. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
Look closely at the pictures you will see more than just Cable Elevators. There are other ceramic insulators bought on eBay after I discovered Cable Elevators are really just ceramic insulators and they all work the same. Shop around on eBay you can find ones you like at a good price, usually about $20 each.
Just so you know, unlike the people who knock things they don't understand without even trying, I actually tried a bunch of different things and went for what worked best based on how it actually sounds. So rest assured this stuff works. The only question is how well it works for the money.
Synergistic has such an awesome track record, as you seem to agree, that my advice would be to get a few of the inexpensive ceramic insulators first. Maybe you are so happy with them you stop right there. But if not then the next step would be to buy the SR and compare. Most SR comes with a 30 day guarantee so worst case you keep them because they are better, and have a few ceramic insulators to put under less critical stuff like power cords. Again, see my system for reference.
Notice the stark contrast between my deliberate, moderate, reasonable, thorough, incremental results-based approach and the others? Choose wisely.
If you’ve replaced the internal combustion engine with electric, then I would believe you.
On the other hand, if I told you that I replaced the stock engine in my Volkswagen Golf with a motorcycle engine, and I’m turning 10 second ET’s at the strip, would you believe that, or would you call me crazy for even suggesting such a thing?
Just so you know, unlike the people who knock things they don’t understand without even trying, I actually tried a bunch of different things and went for what worked best based on how it actually sounds. So rest assured this stuff works.
Whew! I’m glad that’s settled! Thanks! ;-)
BTW, everyone who uses and believes in homeopathic medicine, or astrology, or crystal healing, would write almost word-for-word the same type of testimony. "I tried it and I can tell you the theory works." ;-)
You missed the point. Don’t change the analogy. If I told you I am getting 500 miles per gallon on the existing Golf engine...do you have a right to be skeptical of the claim WITHOUT "having tried it yourself?"
I’m pointing to the weakness in the purely subjectivist audiophile shibboleth "you can’t have a valid opinion about X tweak claim unless you have personally tried it!"
So much sniping and not one substantive comment on the item itself. Did anyone even bother to try and learn anything about it? Anyone? Beuller?
Like all SR it says right on there they did extensive double-blind testing to select aluminum from among several different candidate materials. Same thing Ted did with metals when developing his Element series. Discovered tungsten that way. Which I know for a fact is awesome, since I have a set.
Anyone? Beuller? Dude comes on here asking for help, gets a little, then in no time flat it devolves into the usual blather. Pathetic.
What I see is after using double-blind testing to select the material they used more double-blind testing to develop a new HFT tuned for these risers. Anyone who has used HFT or ECT knows just how effective they are.
My reviews of HFT, ECT and PHT have been up for months, and there are others. This isn't random dudes blathering away while working on a beer at the bar, this is serious audiophiles with substantial systems and reams of posts as evidence of their ability to hear and evaluate. Ted Denney has a solid 30 years history of developing products that provide good value for money. My personal experience has been they are always among the top values in their category.
This is not the kind of record you can even dent with bar room banter. All that does is drive your own credibility even further into the toilet. Which most of you ought to be so ashamed of by now, but you're here, therefore no sense of shame. Which is why I say, pathetic.
All that remains now is for the golden stream of light in the darkness to emerge and call me a shill. Even though I have said nothing one way or the other about how good this stuff is. But that's what passes the time for you guys. Pathetic.
You can get a package of 20 Grip Rite brand "Plastic High Chairs" (supports to elevate the rebar in concrete foundations) at Home Depot, product no. IHCP21420R (sku 7 64666 53838 2), $3.60 for the bag of 20. Put a "suspension bridge" across the gap (as Shunyata does on their cable riser) if you wish.
Credibility is damaged among the hyperbole laden sheep-like faithful when they simply tumble after every silly tweak they can revel in and proudly claim the role of athletic supporter...ridiculous again (is that really only twice?). Does anybody actually think little stands are stopping air born vibration from touching the speaker cables before my previously described hell hole of inner speaker cable violence takes over? Oh the humanity...
The lexicon of the Debbie Downer's is growing at an exponential rate thanks to Wolfie and good old "Cheers George"... and all of this in only two posts:
Hyperbole laden sheep
Simply amazing, isn't it?
Hey Georgie ... have you complained to the Mods yet today? Better hurry because someone, somewhere, on this site is having a good time.
Whenever I denigrate snake oil manufacturers and or their shills.
If it they thought it didn’t apply to themselves, then there’d be no reason to get testy and retaliate personally.
So what does that tell you about the ones that do????????? (and it's always the same 1/2 dozen that do)
Hey Georgie ... have you complained to the Mods yet today?Don’t have to, I’m sure their watching this closely, sure they have "SR" flagged.
SR offers a full refund within 30 days, so I would be hesitant to call them snake oil salesmen. If someone offered me, say, a car that gets 500 mpg and said I could have a full refund no-questions-asked if I don't like it, I just may buy it. To satisfy my curiosity -- even though my degree in engineering tells me it's practically impossible.
Back to cable risers ...
This is what I use:
Devout tweaker that I am, I’ve even tweaked the cable risers. I’ve taken PPT Alpha-Cards and bent them into a shape to fit into the slots, then placed the speaker cables into the slots on top of the Alpha-Cards. Then, each riser has an original PPT Omega Mat sitting on top of it with the cables underneath. The mats sit length-wise in order to affect as much of the cable as possible. I got a nice improvement in SQ from that little exercise.
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons. I think IF you are using a highly ( a relative term ) capacitive cable with poor dialectric, risers might be a waste. Of course the Uber or BDP suggestions are low cost. IF your room floor is carpet then insulating risers may help. Not so much on hardwood ( the real thing ) or natural stone / slate. i have a bunch of Myrtlewood blocks cut in the “ word salad “ golden ratio...those are cheap and easy to make on my Delta Unisaw but with a German fence....... no daughters for rent
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons.Get someone to quietly tap/shake your speaker wires while you listen blind and see if you hear a difference.
Why even give these snake oiler's a chance to sell one lot to the gullible here, just another money grab like the AC mains fuses and HFT things are.
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons.
Good point which is why it has been discussed several times including several times by me. One good reason you might want to follow the lead of a growing segment of the community and start following my posts. Incredibly thorough and informative you would know all about this by now.
None of this is rocket science, its all perfectly self-evident to any experienced informed and aware audiophile, the plausible reasons it could work break down as follows:
1) It could be dielectric effect. All insulators are imperfect. They all absorb some small amount of the passing signal and then radiate this energy back into the wire with a small delay resulting in a smearing of micro transients. This isn't new this is established science and it isn't new I've said it before but I get better and better, more succinct and informative, each time. Read past posts and see.
2) It could be vibration control. Alternating electric current and fields always result in vibrations, which is why vibration control like cones and shelves improves even components with no moving parts like amplifiers. Don't take my word for it. Go feel your cables while playing music. You'll be surprised how much they vibrate, especially with bass. So it could be the sound is improved by allowing the cable to vibrate freely in air rather than being damped by the floor.
3) It could be electric charges. Static electricity is a problem particularly with speaker cables. Don't take my word for it, use anti-static spray and see for yourself.
That's three solid reasons. All of which are bolstered by the specific design approach SR uses here. Because notice they use HFT, which are used to great effect on speakers, walls, and components.
I think IF you are using a highly ( a relative term ) capacitive cable with poor dialectric, risers might be a waste. Of course the Uber or BDP suggestions are low cost. IF your room floor is carpet then insulating risers may help.
I highlight this part because it illustrates a common problem- assuming to know enough to be able to eliminate possibilities. Because what you mean to say by "IF" is this is the only way. Can't be anything else.
Let me show why this is wrong. I tested different materials a long time ago. Everything helped but Cable Elevators were by far the best. One thing I tested was BDR Those Things, squares of carbon fiber. Those Things are terrific vibration control and carbon fiber is somewhat conductive. The fact that a lousy vibration control material like ceramic worked better seemed to indicate the mechanism is electrical. Not sure but seemed likely.
Well then recently in trying TC different places I put some on the insulators. Seems counterintuitive, putting a conductor over an insulator. But this was a tremendous improvement. Now scroll up and read oregonpapa, who had the same experience, only with Mats, which are very similar.
If there's one thing that ought to be abundantly clear its that we are pretty good with getting bulk crude power from A to B, but when it comes to the extreme subtleties of the micro-level signals that make all the difference between high end products we know next to nothing.
Bingo! Eliminating as many micro-vibrations and as much micro-arcing as possible is the key to better sound. No matter how much a person has spent on equipment unless vibration is addressed, they will never realize the potential of their audio system. Once these things are addressed, a magic music machine appears. Even from less expensive systems.
Bingo!Yeah that’s you, can’t see the forest for the trees.
This may as well be a fuser thread as it’s the same 1/2 dozen voodooist’s every time.
And attention those who purchase them, don’t forget the cable risers have to be around the right way, logo towards the speakers, and at least 100hrs break in time is needed before you can hear the difference.
Taken from Elliott’s sound products page:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing."
From ’The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy’, Douglas Adams
The above could just as easily be re-phrased - for example ...
"I refuse to prove that my cables/risers/fuses will make your system sound better", says the snake oil vendor, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, you will hear nothing."
I’ve always thought that it has something to do with the dielectric effect.
Earlier today, I came across this tidbit: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/the-effect-of-plastic-wound-capacitor.html#more
Clicking on the photos enlarges them for easier viewing.
It’s minor, but measurable (which many here demand to see), so if it alters the value of a capacitor (and therefore, the sound, albeit slightly), why doesn’t it pertain to cables as well?
All the best,
I was shocked at the difference obtained when I raised my speaker wire off the floor. I completely expected NOT to hear any difference and that's what caught me most off-guard. With this said, I don't think you need to use an expensive SR product to do this. I ended up cutting into sections the thin, inner wooden cradles in a couple of empty Bordeaux wine cases to prop my cables up - essentially free after the wine is consumed. I'm not a SR hater at all and in fact use their fuses and HFTs in my setup/room with much success.