Last week I started experimenting with the MIGS. I put a set underneath my DAC prototype which had just been sitting on my Esoteric clock. I really wasn't expecting much, if any difference. I was wrong - On ambient, they were awful.
In the "pinpoint" configuration, they got a lot better, now slightly exceeding the performance of the DAC directly on top of the clock. My system is back to life, plus a bit better imaging. The clock is sitting directly on my Esoteric Transport, which in turn is sitting upon 3 Cerapucs. I will probably do some more experimentation putting MIGs under the clock, but only after I figure out what to do with the preamp below.
Yesterday, I put a another set under my VAC preamp, also in the pin-point position. These are replacing FI Cerapucs that were under the preamp. So far, the MIGs seem a bit brighter, with a bit better bass and also a bit better imaging, but I will have to give these several more days of comparison to determine which I prefer under the preamp.
I will also be getting a set of Speaker-cells to demo in a few weeks. I'm being very careful to add things slowly, in order to clearly identify which addition/replacement is responsible for the subtle (or not so subtle) changes to my system.
Just my $.02. Hope this helps. |
Regarding your first question, that is what I asked Elliot last week. He said the quality of the tails was the same as Apex, just insulated differently.... I don't have my demos yet to physically compare. |
I've had the speaker cells installed for about 2 days now. My system was very highly resolving before the cells addition and remains so. I am noticing 3 things so far - the imaging seems a bit better and there seems to be a bit more air around the instruments, which is good. What I don't like is that the soundstage seems to have backed up about 6-8 feet.
This is what I have noticed so far after about 8 hours of play over 2 days. |
I'd like to hear about additional experiences from existing speaker cell users and also people who tried them but didn't get them. To me they seems like power cells for my speakers and I'm in that gray area of almost "too much of a good thing" since my system was already highly resolving prior to their insertion. Am I the only one with this concern?
Thanks for your feedback..... |
Joe-
I did not. My Apex cables are 12'. Even if they were only 6', it would seem like a step backwards. I've got a pretty special 32-bit 20 DACs/side APL DAC prototype that already takes the whole system up several notches, as well as a Powercell 10SE, Holgram PCs, Apex cables, etc., etc. I know there are worse problems to have.... :-)
Maybe I just need to keep listening....... I'm also wondering if there is a break-in period similar to the powercells? |
I think it breaks ground loops. |
Dave - I haven't decided yet whether to keep the speaker cells, although I am leaning towards doing so. They do improve imaging nicely and also add a bit more detail. I'm still undecided how I feel about the soundstage being pushed a bit further back, but I'm slowly getting used to it. A lot of the brightness I was initially concerned about is gone, however some still remains, which seems to be affecting the musicality of my system. At this point, the positives probably outweigh the negatives, but I need to do more listening to more different kinds of music.
If my system weren't already very highly resolving, keeping them would be a no-brainer, as I'm sure they are for most people. What I want to avoid is having to de-tune other parts of my system in order to accommodate the speaker cells.
My advice would be to try them and see how they sound in your system. |
Dave and others:
I had a really good "AHA" moment yesterday regarding the speaker cells. After a bunch of brainstorming, Elliot(SR)and I, with the assistance of nautical Ted, figured out that the main reason I wasn't getting good performance out of the speaker cells was that the 48" bi-wire pigtails of my Apex speaker cables were not also connected to the speaker cells. They were basically acting as antennae and also robbing the speakers of full signal.
When I connected all 4 speaker leads to the 2 terminals on the speaker cell (pretty awkward with spades), the sound changed dramatically for the better. I now have bass again as well as midrange and the glare in the highs I had been hearing is pretty much gone. I will be replacing the 48" bass leads with 16" leads tonite, which should hopefully give me a bit stronger bass response, due to a potential loss of some current with the longer leads. I will post results as soon as I have a chance to set both speakers up and listen.
Currently, I have only got 1 speaker hooked to the speaker cell. The other has the Apex bi-wire on it and is relatively difficult for me to get behind. I am playing all types of music like this, as it is the easiest way for me to hear differences in the lows, mids and highs, of course making allowances for the signals not being identical. (Another benefit of mono amps ;-)). The dogs think I'm playing with them, as I bounce from speaker to speaker. I am hearing positive differences out of the speaker cell side so far, as the positives from before have not gone away, but most of the negatives have. |
Tbg - You almost confused me!!
Let me explain a bit more clearly. Before speaker cells: Apex biwires hooked to my VR-7s in bass and mid modules; 1 amp per side. Currently: 1 speaker just as before. 2nd speaker with both Apex main and Apex pigtails (hence "biwire") hooked to speaker cell input terminals; 48" leads(2) from speaker cell hooked to midrange terminals on speaker, 16" leads(2) from speaker cell hooked to bass terminals of the speaker. What we hadn't done before was to hook the Apex pigtails to the speaker cell input terminals as well, but just left them un-connected.
BTW, shortening the bass leads from the speaker cell from 48" to 16" noticeably tightened up the bass, which I was happy to hear. After a few more days of "A-B"-ing the 2 speakers, I will hook the other speaker cell up and hopefully be happy with the result. So far, I am getting better instrument separation and a bit more detail out of the speaker hooked to the speaker cell. The bass is also a bit deeper and tighter than the non-speaker cell speaker.
What is difficult to ascertain until I hook the other speaker to the speaker cell is their effect on the overall musicality of the system. It was pretty non-existent before when the cables weren't hooked up properly. I'm expecting a huge positive difference now, hopefully even better than without the cells at all. If that happens, I will of course keep the cells. The next week or so should be pretty interesting. |
Tbg - Its VERY SIMPLE - My Apex cables are BI-WIRE, which means there are 4 ends that go to the speakers. 2 of those ends are heavier(main) and the other 2 come off of the main Apex cable as 48" pigtails. All are spade terminated, with the main ends being heavier spades than those at the ends of the pigtails. Hooking ALL 4 up to the INPUT side of the speaker cell solved my problem. If this is still confusing, SR can perhaps explains better than I.
Thanks for your feedback. |
Ozzy - I have VSA VR-7's which required the extra length for the bi-wire application. I've hooked the 2nd speaker to the speaker cell and will wait a day or two before critical listening. Initial impression is pretty positive. |
The speaker cells will be remaining in my system. They are providing a bit better imaging and detail as well as tighter bass and a bit better lower-volume resolution. The presentation is also a little more organic. These are not night/day differences, but there is enough of an improvement that the system sounds better to my ears with them than without. |
Is there a reason why you can't use a digital connection? |
Bacardi - That's what I was getting at - the SR D-3. Probably the most underpriced cable they make (once you hear it) |
Hologram A on my preamp works best for me. System already very highly resolving. |
I also have a steel rack with thick glass shelves and for me, the MIGs killed the Stillpoints. It wasn't even close. More open, fuller sound from top to bottom. In my system, the Stillpoints opened up the highs and upper mids, but didn't touch the lows or lower mids, at least not to the extent of the MIGs. I use the MIGs under all my digital gear as well as the control unit of my preamp. If I had to quantify, in my system out of a possible 10, the order of effectiveness has been: MIGs- 9; Cerapucs- 7; Stillpoints- 5. |
"Relaxed" is not the right word for what the MIGs did to the highs in my system. A better word would be "released". No artificial "brightness". They in no way "increased" the amount of bass in my system, but merely let the bass that was always there come through in a cleaner, more organic manner.
The best thing to do is try them - everyone's system reacts differently to different additions and subtractions. There is really no other substitute and nobody but you will be able to tell what works for you. It will probably take a bit of experimenting with MIG positions - at least it did for me - before you find what works for you. As with the stillpoints, be sure to give them at least a few days to settle in before moving them. They may not work for you, but the only way to tell is to try them.
To be honest, I didn't think there would be any way they would outperform my Cerapucs. I was pleasantly surprised at being wrong. :-) |
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Another point to keep in mind, as I have recently discovered, is that all systems are different, and just because something new may sound better in 1 system, it may NOT sound better in yours.
I recently demoed the extremely pricey Element Silver 3m balanced interconnects in my system as an alternative to balanced Precision Ref ICs, which I was also demoing to replace my single-ended Precision Ref ics. I was expecting to be blown away by the silver ICs.
I wasn't. The balanced Precision Refs sounded considerably better in my system - more full bodied, better bass and more 3-dimensional. The strengths of the silver cables were great resolution and detail, which I already had from my CD player and its 20 32-bit 2nd generation DACs per channel.
My point is that until you actually hear something in your own system, you need to take words like "better" and "dramatic improvement" with a big grain of salt. Both Elliot at Synergistic and John at the Cable Company were kind enough to allow me to demo these cables in my system. I went with the balanced Prec Ref cables (old style without those bullets), not because of the dollars, but because of the sound.
Just my $.02 |
The placement of the cables above was between my preamp and amps. |
The only way to know is to try both in your system and see which you like better, IMO. There is no right or wrong, but what works best for you. |
Good news -
Changing the ICs from source to preamp within the SR line yielded a much greater sonic improvement than I expected. System got significantly more musical and organic, resolution and clarity increased, and bass got tighter, a bit deeper and seemingly faster, if that makes sense. The total presentation got considerably more balanced - the funny thing is that I didn't realize there were several imbalances until the new ics "fixed" them. My speakers have finally really "come alive". :-)
I didn't realize my Tesla Apex ics were a system choke point until I put in the new demos (Element series: Copper-Tungsten-Silver) between my CD player and preamp. Sound-stage also got wider, deeper and the imaging got even better. As a few of my audio buddies remarked, witnessing the pretty substantial improvements in so many areas - "WOW"!!
I may also try the CTS balanced from my Preamp to Amps (VAC 300.1s). I just changed this run from Precision Ref rcas to balanced, which pretty dramatically lowered my noise floor - not sure I want to change them out this quickly. In addition, a 2.5m balanced pair of CTS ics gets very, very pricey. I probably ought to first compare the cable geometries, etc.
John at the Cable Company has been a pleasure to work with as I continue my quest towards audio nirvana. |
Its all relative and personal taste as to system/listening goals, which tend to change over time as technology advances and musical tastes evolve. Apex is an excellent cable and still present elsewhere in my system. CTS works better for me between source and preamp.
"Apex ic killing and choking the system" - these are YOUR words, NOT MINE. I never said that. |
Currently auditioning Tranquility Base. Didn't think it made much difference, if any, initially. It turned out a few of the active connections in the system had come off inadvertently. When I restored the connections, there was a pretty considerable difference for the better with the Base on. A fellow audiophile confirmed what heard as well.
The addition of the Base under my source is providing a noticeable improvement in both imaging and depth of soundstage. In addition, both the highs and lows are a bit more clear and defined, while at the same time managing to be more musical as well. The greatest difference is heard when I turn the Base off.
My system is pretty resolving, so I was and am surprised to hear as much of a difference as I have. I understand the premise, just didn't think it would make such a noticeable positive difference. It has so far and I have John at The Cable Company to thank for turning me on to this Base. |
The Base is the one to get, if you are going to do this. It has the full technology. The Basik does not - which is probably why it has not gotten much attention. |
I just replaced my CTS SR demo ics between source and preamp with High End cables' CT-1 from my old buddy Rick Schultz, since I couldn't get what I thought was a fair deal on the SR's from Cable co. Glad I'm trying Rick's cables - big improvement over the CTS in my system and less than 1/2 price of CTS(faster, better detail, more organic).
Kool-aid comes in different flavors. Sometimes we forget that simple fact..... |
Correction: High FIDELITY CT-1 ics. |
