Survey on Cost of Loudspeakers Supported On Townshend Seismic Isolation Podiums

Paradigm Persona 5F.   MSRP 17,500

Spendor D9.  MSRP 12,000

QLN Prestige 5 MSRP $17,500

QLN Sonora MSRP $5,500.00

Raven Audio CeLest Towers MSRP $5000.00

@ryder Nonsense do you see the value in isolating your speakers?

I’m not sure if my speakers deserve the Podiums but they are in my wish list should I decide to upgrade something in my system in the near future.

ryder,

What speakers are you currently using?

Seems like it is “putting the cart ahead of the horse”, to use that as a way to choose a speaker.

Usher Mini Two Diamond $6000

The performance of any speaker will be radically transformed.

My $33K Tetra 606s easily became $66K speakers. The improvement with Podiums was the greatest of any upgrade.

Avantgarde Duos... MSRP in 2001 when I got ’em was $16,000. Now, like triple that😢

@ryder Nonsense do you see the value in isolating your speaker
 

Yes, isolation is beneficial for speakers but I don't think folks would specifically consider the product that is being discussed here for speakers with an MSRP of say $1,000 or less.

What speakers are you currently using?

Marten Duke 2 (MSRP $8,500)

Harbeth SHL5+ (MSRP $6,695)

The Dukes have Isoacoustics Gaia 2 installed on them.

Thanks for all responses. It appears that most speakers installed on the Podiums cost more than $10,000, the costliest one currently costing up to $33,000.

Aerial 7T $9850 (when I bought mine, $12K now) 98lbs each. 

IDK I have 2 5k speakers on the podium and it has doubled there sound value.

I think that the OP is putting to much importance on the price of the speakers. 

@roxy54 i agree 150%

I use the original version of the Podiums, called Speaker Cradles, under Nola Micro References originally listed for around $14-15K.  I agree with others, the cost of the speakers is irrelevant, I'd say most speakers would benefit from them regardless of cost.

like it’s the only isolation product… ?

Focal Maestro Utopia $55K. Great addition.

+1, tomic601

Something unnerving about a speaker swinging like a pendulum when you touch it, IMO. Vandersteen's don't need things like that.

Don't sweat the cost of the speakers. Mine were virtually free. The previous owner wanted to give them a good home. I have built my system around these speakers to see how much I could get out of them (Belle Klipsch 1978ish).

The Townsend "bars" (they were too big to afford podiums) was the best investment I made for the money. The new crossover helped too, but more expensive.

Go for it!!! Try the bars if you don't want to spring for the podiums.

What is sad is the price of speakers and the here today and gone junk tomorrow status.Thousands spent with a turn around that makes the Depreciation of a new car off the lot look great. What..100’s of makes with more names than the dictionary supports. Then there’s the gear that has to be bought to make crap sound better ?? There now I feel good Lol

Cheers 
 

I have Monitor Audio Studio 50's on size 2 podiums. These retailed in the US at $8,000, but I picked mine up brand new as an "end of range" sale for £2k here in the UK. Managed to pick up the podiums for £1.2K. The speakers, which I still have are 22 years young and are now augmented by Townshend Super Tweeters.

Stands spiked through carpet to solid concrete seems to work just fine for me, I'll save my money and buy even more records.

I would think that if you are spending big money on a high end speaker that they (or at least should) already come designed and built with isolation in mind.  I've gotta believe that my S/F Liliums come engineered to eliminate resonance and all that stuff. I could research it, but to busy enjoying the music to dabble in it.

PS: Love My Vinyl

I think your survey might lead you to the wrong conclusions…speaker isolation makes varying improvements depending on the flooring materials…also individuals who can afford expensive components also can afford expensive tweaks….

Somewhere on Richard Vandersteen’s site there’s a paper on the subject which echoes my own thoughts.

You want to minimize the contact area between the speaker and floor. You also want to secure the speaker from rocking against the force of the woofers. The motors are powerful, and the farther from the ground the easier time they’ll have moving the speaker back and forth and causing Doppler distortion.

This is why sometimes something as simple as adding significant weight to the top of a monitor will tighten up the bass.

Aerial LR5 - $11K inc. Sound Anchor Signature stands.  175 lbs each when mounted on the stands.  Decoupled using springs but not Townshend platforms.

I am curious why speaker cost has anything to do with it.  It is more about making your speakers and system sound their best.  The question becomes coupling (spikes) vs. decoupling (springs).  The two heavy hitters are probably Audiopoint (spikes) and Townshend (spring decoupling).  However, there are many types of springs that can be used for decoupling (such as elastomers). In addition to Townshend, common decouplers include Herbies, EVP, Gaia, common sorbothane footers, and more.

Here is an informative video from Townshend discussing their take on why using springs to support/decouple your speakers is a best option.  Here is another from Credo out of Switzerland, and here is one featuring Norman Varney from AV Room Services (i.e., the company that manufactures EVPs).

Finally, this doesn't need to cost a lot of money.  My Aerial LR5s and my similarly heavy SW12 subs are supported by regular springs such as formerly sold by Geoff Kait at Machina Dynamica.  I sized them from the weight of the speakers/stands and using the tool on the Century Spring website (which has changed and is not quite as specific as when I used it).  I damped the outside of each spring with thin, loosely applied heat shrink and provided holes to prevent air lock, not unlike the Townshend products, and ended up with virtually the same result.  The Townshend products are great for their adjustability and for speakers not already supported by heavy steel bases but some research along with trial and error could get you to the same place sonically using individual springs for a lot less money. 

A point raised but not answered: irrespective of speakers used, who has upgraded from Gaia feet to Townshend podiums (or bars), and with how much improvement? Gaias are designed to allow movement on one axis, but to arrest it on  the other. 

While we are all the the question of decoupling the speakers to avoid dappled distortion, has anyone used Isoaoustic GAIA I  on a pair of Sibelius speakers? Or put another way,  why would Pearl Acoustics make a heavt speaker stand for its speaker and still use spikes with disks if he didn't believe it would represent the best sonics? Just curious,  waiting for delivery on mine. 😊 thanks

I think part of the issue is at what point are you better off using the money to buy better speakers (as determined by you)...though if you love your speakers, and don’t want to sell then make them as good as possible...I like the Mapleshade Low Micro Point Mega Feet and maple boards, though no boards with current speakers...

I think part of the discussion that needs to addressed is what are the speakers resting on.  If they are on a suspended wooden floor vs. concrete the benefit may not be as great.  Mine are on a suspended second story wooden floor so to me they are essential.  

Perhaps use your ears?  What does a meter tell you anyway?

Currently Cube Nenuphar’s and Nenuphar Mini’s but I think most speakers at a lesser cost would benefit. Components as well on similar or use cups/balls/slate/spring DIY. See Barry Diament document. 

For anyone who has not heard of Townshend

Townshend Audio Seismic HiFi Isolation Products Demo @ Festival of Sound 2018

Wilson Sasha 2s on concrete. Sitting 210 pounds of speaker (who's designers pained over resonances) on springs went against everything I thought I knew about isolation, but my ears told me that I should keep the Podiums. 

@phill55

I went from Gaia footers to the Townshend podiums. My speakers are on an upstairs suspended wood floor. The improvements were not subtle, especially the low end. I put the Gaia footers under my amp stands. 

For anyone who has not heard of Townshend

“The Shill” has only been gone for a month, so I am not sure there is anyone that did not hear him talk about them numerous times.

Good morning

Please follow the link below for a comparison. 

Good morning

Please follow the link below for a comparison between Townsend and IsoAcoustics. 

I get the OP’s query. Why would you put expensive wheels on a Yugo. The question I have, and for others among the uninitiated, how much do a pair of Townsend Podiums cost?

And yet it is done every day at Rent A Tire. May not be a Yugo but a 2010 Nissan Altima all the time……

Gaias do work and that was my starting point in the cycle.

Hans was happy cuz his wife let him keep the Gaia’s. Folks that have moved up to the Podiums from the Gaia’s have stated a nice improvement. 

ProAc D40Rs (original retail = $12,500 / Rosewood) on the Townshend Podiums in my 2nd-floor, wood-framed home. My impression is that they improve the bass resolution greatly and the overall image presents well at lower volume levels now.

That said, I think I’d consider the structure of the listening room before I’d worry about the price of the speakers. Not sure I’d use these in a basement listening room with concrete floors. Direct-coupling via spikes might work better in that situation. Or at least, be no worse (for less money).

I have tall thin speakers and also was nervous about the instability created with the Townshend bars/springs (I do use their platform under my turntable with excellent results). I put flat multilayer Symposium Segue Stealth platforms (custom sized) under my speakers which added a little stability (or at least didn't decrease it from the spikes/discs that came with the speakers) but more importantly improved the sound by removing the internal speaker vibration to the floor. It clarified the sound and the result was more noticeable than I expected, and kept the tweeter height the same. Supposedly these work really well with a suspended wood floor which I have. Way less expensive than the Townshend options (bars or pods or platforms).

The improvement of anything you do depends heavily on your floor, environment, and speakers. 

Way less expensive than the Townshend options (bars or pods or platforms).

Spring support doesn't need to cost a lot of money, but you have to get the sizing right.  You could also try EVPs, which can also be DIY'ed with Owens Corning 703-705.

I have no idea in what way your current speakers don't do what you would like them to do but I would suggest trying isolation of some sort to get an idea of what the Podiums can do for a speaker. I have Linn Akurate speakers and I was as happy with them as any of us are after living with a speaker for a while but I will tell you that the Podiums really had the effect you might expect from upgrading the speaker. Keeping the old or buying new speaks you really might want to try isolating them - to me and apparently others, isolation makes a considerable improvement.

I have Legacy Aeris speakers on the podiums and thought the improvements were worth the expense. Better imaging, more space around the notes, and also eliminated some resonance. Let your ears decide what is best for you and your room!

Tannoy Cheviots $6500