Supratek or Don Sachs - which way to go?


I'm preparing to replace my SS preamp with a tube unit and have read with great interest many threads on this board. This is where I learned about Don Sachs model 2 preamps. They sound like what I'm looking for and those who own them consistently express their satisfaction with them.

Now I've just been reading and learning about the Supratek lineup. Wow. These also sound like fantastic works of art. Leaving me with a new question about which way to go. 

Thoughts? Advice? Experience? Anyone care to share?
128x128markusthenaimnut
Hi all,
Sorry if this runs a little long, but I recently took delivery of my new Supratek Cortese preamp with LCR phono stage. The purpose of this post is to share my decision making process and experience in the hope that it will help others “find their way” through what was, for me, a somewhat daunting process. Overall, I have learned a lot and my perspective on audio and hi-fi has changed.

I used a Naim NAC 82 with a hicap power supply for about 15 years. The 82 replaced a Naim 72 that I’d had in my system for well over 10 years. I always enjoyed my system when using the Naim preamps but knew there was better equipment out there. As I prepared for retirement I started researching tube preamps. I read a lot on various forums, asked many dumb questions (still lots of those left to go) and decided to seek out a preamp based around the 6SN7 tube; while there are discussions about which 6SN7 is the best, for the most part it seems this tube is almost universally well regarded for audio applications. Correspondingly, my search eventually boiled down either to a Don Sachs Model 2 or a Supratek.

I had actually decided to purchase a Don Sachs unit before learning about Supratek but got hung up in the wife/budget approval process, so continued to research. The two companies/builders have much in common. Both are run by highly respected builders and are (as far as I understand) one man operations. Many of those who own pieces from either one of these builders describe the experience of listening to the equipment in glowing terms; many owners of each brand share that they came to it after ownership of products from many other highly regarded brands, such as Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. The reviews and comments on the internet seem to come from dedicated, long-term audiophile owners who swear by the product and state that their preamp is never leaving their system.

One of the main reasons I decided to go with the Supratek was that it included an on-board phono stage. I figured this would allow me to get rid of my Linn Linto phono stage. I also needed (or wanted) five inputs. I’ve owned the Linto for over 10 years and it has sounded excellent. I haven’t had the time or motivation to do a hard-core side-by-side comparison of the Linto with the Supratek LCR phono stage yet, but I think the Supratek sounds a lot better. I just hear a lot more information coming off the records. I suppose that’s a preliminary opinion. BTW, my Linto is a 25th anniversary model, so it’s getting a bit old, and I had to have it serviced last year. Linn no longer supports the product but the Seattle authorized Linn technician took it on and performed a service, replacing all faulty parts with more highly spec’d components.

I know I’m rambling here but please bear with me. I’ve started to write this review several times before and those earlier versions have somehow vanished into thin air on the internet.

Mick was an absolute gem to work with. The preamp is beautiful to look at. It comes across as a truly unique, bespoke product. It is not a standard “closed box” preamp, though if you are considering either a Don Sachs or Supratek product you’re probably most interested in the sound, reliability and value.

The sound: The first piece I played through the system was Shawn Colvin’s excellent 1994 release “Cover Girl”. I’ve listened to this cd countless times. Previously I thought I understood the lyrics. I now know I was wrong, because now I can clearly and easily hear them and know that previously my mind had been “filling in the blanks” to make sense of what it was hearing. I could go on and on about this cd but I’ll turn my attention to the second cd I played over they system – Pieces of Africa, by the Kronos Quartet. This is a wonderful 1992 release and the biggest difference through the Supratek was the incredible sense of cohesion of the quartet. Yes, the soundstage was huge, and each player clearly occupied a location within that soundstage. But this was merely a bonus, because the biggest delight was in understanding how the ensemble members were interacting and influencing each other. Amazing and wonderful to hear.

Next up was the 2017 Rhino Records “Summer of Love” reissue of Van Morrison’s Astral Weeks album. Holy smokes. Now I can understand why hardcore fans and collectors love this album and pay big money for original pressings. I have no basis for comparing the Rhino pressing to any others, but I will say that the recording is very good to my ears and the pressing seemed to leave nothing out.

If you haven’t heard it yet, I encourage you to seek out the soundtrack to the movie “The Old Man and the Gun”. The press seemed to make a big deal out of the fact that this is apparently Robert Redford’s last movie. But the soundtrack is a hidden gem, a small group jazz release that is beautifully written, performed and recorded. The sound via the Supratek was nothing less than superlative.

Update, about four weeks in –
The preamp has continued to get better, more opened up, so to speak. The audio writer, Harvey Rosenberg, coined a word – “whole-osity” to try to capture the way superlative audio equipment conveys music. When discussing the work of Nobu Shishido he said that his artistic intent was “to take us to a musical territory that is so refined that there is no conventional language that can describe it....this is the job of the audio artisan...to inspire us to explore the ineffable”. When I incorporated the Supratek Cortese into my system I felt that I was having the same kind of experience.

The phono stage is amazing. Yes, I know my LP12 with Ittok is not really considered “high end” nowadays. There are numerous tables out there which are more highly regarded. In spite of the limitations of the Linn, the LCR phono stage extracts every ounce of music from the signal and conveys it so that the performer’s artistic intent is clearly conveyed. Detail, musical nuance, artistic choices, cohesion, the unity of an ensemble and so forth are beautifully conveyed. The line stage is similarly accomplished. Many musical pieces I previously thought simply boring or annoying have been transformed into something that holds my interest. While the accuracy and “hear-through” nature of the preamp enables the listener to “hear the hand” of the producer and recording engineer it doesn’t detract from the artistry of the performer.

I’m not someone who switches equipment into and out of my system very often. I’ve owned my humble LP12 for nearly 30 years, my ESL63 speakers for five, my Naim CD 3.5 for more fifteen, and so on. I’ve seldom purchased new. Every piece of equipment I’ve owned has provided great long-term satisfaction. The Supratek is exceeding every prior experience and every expectation I had. I can’t envision any situation in which I’d replace it. It’s very good.

One more comment - 
For the first time in a very long time, my wife has started to join me for listening sessions. And she stays for a long time, and we cuddle. Talk about a bonus!
Nice review. I used to have a Cortese and would consider purchasing another in the future. Agree that Mick is great to deal with. Hard to beat the Cortese if you want a great sounding preamp with a built-in phono stage. I'm intrigued by the new LCR phono stage. I hope to read more about it.
My only gripe with the one that I owned was that the separate power supply really warmed up my small-ish room, much like some tube amps would do. I'm wondering if the separate power supply of the new Cortese model warms up your room at all?
So far I haven't noticed the power supply warming anything up. However, my new listening room is about 16 x 24 and I sit about 15 feet away from the shelving where the Cortese and other equipment are located.
How is the volume control on the Cortese, is it smooth, can you control it in small steps ? From the remote also ?
Just got a Sachs preamp delivered yesterday.  I'll post more after I've got a couple hundred hours on it, but first impressions are very positive.  
The volume control is super smooth and solid. It can be controlled from the remote. The "channel" buttons change the volume in smaller steps. The "volume" buttons are "normal", whatever that means.
OP: Congrats on your research and purchase decision. Neither unit is a slouch. But the WAF bonus is terrific. Well done. Enjoy the music!
Greetings....Mick just shipped out my new Chardonnay yesterday and I am counting down the days till it gets here..,,So glad i found out about supratek thru this Thread...soo thanks to all....it will be replacing my old but still very good BAT VK-3i preamp...i was looking to go up the BAT ladder till i ran across this thread....I will be running the Supratek with a pair of Rogue audio 180 mono blocks(Latest Dark Upgrade)...speakers are the Sweet Martin Logan Montis with dual Vandersteen subs...Digital is the New Audio Mirror Tubadour 3 Dac(which is a STEAL at the price and made me sell my Schitt audio Yggy 2 Dac and not look back)..transport is the Cambridge CXC(weakest Link and hope to upgrade soon) all with top of the Line Acoustic Zen Cable....Supratek Stoked to Join the club...so Love..peace and chicken grease for all the great Help along the Way!!!!!!!
Just received my new Chardonney line stage from Mick...Left Perth on Monday and delivered to Pittsburgh in 3 Days!!...Krazy fast....Burning it in now....WOW is it Beautifull...soo glad a got the latest Gen 3...Well done Mick..(understatement of the year!)
I wish this forum had a way to insert pictures, that way we could enjoy all the Supratek owners equipment.
Congratulations with your Chardonnay pre.
Hi Jay, I read on another post that Mick is on vacation, that was I believe 5 days ago.
Yes, I can confirm that Mick is on vacation. He should be back in the next few days.

BTW, there was some interest expressed over on the "preamp deal of the century" thread in a Supratek owners thread. I do plan to create one soon. It will be a place for us to discuss our systems, tweaks, equipment and so forth.

BTW, I do expect to be able to compare a Don Sachs model 2 to my Cortese some time in August. Another individual on this forum owns the Don Sachs unit and lives not too far away. So, that should be fun!
Audio123 -
Thanks for the heads-up on the Audio Mirror Tubador. I'm going to have to look into that.
Please post on the new "Supratek Owners Thread".
Thanks,
Markus
@markusthenaimnut Great, please do post.  I've been enjoying my DS pre, but would still love to hear about the shootout.
Have finally put in enough time with my Don Sachs pre (all upgrades) to evaluate the unit.

The difference between my source direct (I've used both the ps audio pwd & dsd units) and through the Don Sachs is not even close. Music sounds diffuse and unbalanced going direct. Adding the pre to the chain improves every dimension of the sound... bass, highs, clarity, and imaging.  It's just better and I couldn't possibly go back to source direct. 

Also, I agree with the reviews saying that the sound is not at all syrupy, dark, or slow (i.e., tubey). The pre isn't really adding a ton to the signal... I'm just getting a better version of what comes directly out of the source. A very nicely transparent pre-amp.
Also, because I wasn't using the second output, I decided to buy some additional capacitors to try in that location. On a whim bought two Mundorf Supremes as something very different than the Duelund copies Don uses on output 1. I find them substantially better. I totally believe in copper foil caps (have Duelund tinned copper on my tweeters), but find the Mundorf's better in the preamp. The Duelund copies sound kind of flat and dull in comparison. Better focus and front-to-back layering/depth with the Mundorfs. Plus they're a lot cheaper. $40/pair for 2uF.  

Will probably continue to play and try the v-caps that atmasphere recommends. TFTF as the CU-TFs are just too pricey at this point.
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just a small update with my chardonnay gen 3 pre from Mick running with Shu Guang WE6S7N9(over 2 months and counting) and im getting goose bumps not only at night but in the Day!!...This Pre beat ALL of my expectations and then some...would not look back(BAT-32SE very good pre!)...not sure how his earlier models sound(im sure splendid ) but the gen 3 is SOMTHING ELSE...and for the money....guilt....and i didnt even try and beat him up price wise...if your on the fence....well you no the drill...jump off!!....TRUTH!
I think he (Mick) does a good job describing the evolution of the Cortese on his blog.  Link is available via the Supratek website. 
Ordered my Supratek 6SN7 Chardonnay. Was glad to see Mick was up and running again. Had read about this for some time and looking forward to some great sounds. I like Mick's approach. 

 
I have one of Don Sachs first preamps, since fully upgraded, but I decided to buy his new preamp, which accommodates the new WE6SN7 tubes that Don prefers and which has several enhancements over his current preamp.  His current preamp is far and away the best preamp I have ever owned (after CJ, HK, Berning, Modwright, Belles, McCormack and others I now forget), and the new preamp will no doubt be even better.  

Like Don, I think there is magic in using 6SN7 tubes in preamps and Don has it all figured out.  Same with the fine Supratek preamp.  
Greetings whitestix...and congrats on your new DS preamp...I am the proud owner of a New gen 3 Supratek Chardonnay pre...my Qusetion to you is how do you like the new  Shuguang WE6SN7 tubes?...I replaced the stock russian 6sn7 in my Chardonnay with the  Shuguang WE6SN7 and really like them ALOT....i went thru about 4 to 5 different combo's of NOS 6sn7 and foud the new  Shuguang WE6SN7  were more to my liking (although it was VERY close on 2 nos pairs In my system and with MY audio preference and ears)....just curious what you felt about the  Shuguang WE6SN7?...Did you try any other combo's? once again congrats on your new pre...which i was going to buy and it was a coin toss and sum ears i trusted to move the needle to Supratek(still may buy one to compare in my system...we now have 2 great pre's under $2500!!TRUTH)
@audio123 I bought a pair of the Shuguang WE6SN7 Plus tubes for my DS pre.  They are very clear and nicely extended.  Unfortunately I'm always trying to tame my accuton tweeters and they made me grate my teeth a bit.  I'm currently running Raytheon JAN's with copper support rods in the driver stage and RCA Grey Glass VT-231s in the buffer stage.  I could see how the WE6SN7's would be great if you didn't have the tweeter issues I've got.
Thanks cal3713 for a unbiased opinion on the  Shuguang WE6SN7..i was thinking about buying the latest DS pre to compare it to my new gen 3 chardonnay pre...well i am going to pull thr trigger in mid to late  november,,,,should be f---ing cool to have both and compare the 2 with my audio club...stay tuned...more chites and audio giggles coming
 Hey,  audio123, 
Please refresh my memory about what amp and speakers you are driving? Also, your digital side.  I know you went with the Tubador DAC. Did you consider the MHDT Orchid?
Greetings I got a GREAT Deal on a pair of the New Rogue audio 180 monoblocks(with the dark revision ,,,up graded caps..50%more power supply....naked vishay resitors...silver wire used thru out .Cardas.rodhium 5 way posts to nam a few of the upgrades)...Supratek Chardony pre(gen 3)...Martin Logan Montis electrostatic speakers(Luv Them!) running with the latest pair of Vandersteen subs,,,transport is the cambridge CXC(weakest Link) Acoustic Miror dac(maxed out) all with top of th Line Acoustic Zen cable...and i am not changing anything(besides the transport)...system is one of the best i heard( i know im Biased but these componets just melt together and the sum is larger than any one part...yep yep...its that good!!!!!!....as far as the MHDT Orchhid i found it to be a very capable dac for the price(Very nice tone ect ect)...But you could not pry my AMT3 dac away frome me...its in a class well above the orchid....other members felt the same way(But thats not taking anything away from the orchid....very good dac for the money)...so there you have it..this system can be listened for hours with no fatigue and a BIG smile on your face...TRUTH!!
Sounds awesome.I will mention the biggest change in my system recently - a Yeti 1400 lithium-ion battery generator. It generates a perfect 60 hz sine wave and lowers the noise floor (I never knew I had a noise floor before). It has taken my system to the next level. I hope you can track one down just to try it. I have my preamp, power amp and Quad 2805s plugged into it.
Thanks for continuing to keep the Flame Alive and sharing all the info on your system config.
hey Markus...i just saw one on Amazon - Yeti 1400 lithium iron battery generator for $2500...ad then you need $400 solar panel to recharge it?
@audio123 Really looking forward to hearing the conclusion of the preamp comparison...  please do post the update.
Regarding the yeti 1400, no you don't need a solar panel to recharge it. That's simply an optional element of the power system that you can buy. It charges from the wall socket. And price-wise it should be somewhere around 16 or 17 hundred. 1600 would be a good deal. I think list is around 2,000. REI sells them for people who want to go camping and solar panels are handy that way. But the yeti is a good thing to have in case of a power outage. Because it can charge your cell phone or your keep your refrigerator running.
Thanks Markus for the info....going to look into to that item...keep in touch ...I like your Audio style and advice!!!...Peace

Gents,
Coming my way next week is Don Sachs' newest iteration of his preamp.  I had one of the first original preamps he made and it was and is fantastic.  His cap and wiring upgrades took it to even greater levels of performance.

His new preamp has has many enhancements and will come with the very fine WE6SN7plus 6SN7 tubes.  I could have lived with Don's original preamp very happily, but his new interaction of his preamp promises to be a significant SQ improvement.  Plus, now I will have a remote control.  As I have noted before, his KT88-based amplifier is similarly outstanding.   Retail price of the new preamp with the excellent tubes is under $3K.  
@ whitesix

I have been using the Psvane WE6SN7 and KT 88 Plus in my Sach Amp and Pre for over 3 months and are the best tubes I have ever owned/tried; better than many of my NOS variants...

Wig


I feel the same way!...I have been using the  SHUGUANG WE6SN7 Vacuum Tubes in my (new gen 3) Supratek for the last 3 months and they are as good if not better than any nos tube combo's that i have tried(at least 4 nos combos) than the stock Russian tubes....and the beauty of this tube besides how SWEET they sound( in MY OPNION )is that they are readly available and not at the MERCY of all these nos SCAM sellers!...TRUTH!
I also want to ACKNOWLEDGE one more item....I said this b 4 ..But we have 2 Great Pres...under 3K. D|S... and Micks Latest Gen 3....It is every thing he already stated....Its Wider,,,Deeper...More Dynamic than any of his previous models....I Know first hand because my last great pre was a BAT 32se(and that pre retailed for $8500) and my Gen 3 Chardonnay was $2000 and delivered to my Home In Pittsburgh....and it beat it down to in every audio perimeter!!!...Dont Believe me?... then order one....what do you have to lose?....just in case,,,,i have NO interest in Supratek ....besides what Audio Heads have been saying for the past 25 yrs....TRUTH!!
I noticed that Dick Olsher [The Absolute Sound] is now using a Supratek Chardonnay.
Yes he does...Mick Alluded to the fact that a "famous insider/reviewer is now using his Cardonnay pre as one of his reference...Look at Dick Olsher ...his latest review of the  Luxman MQ-88uC Stereo Power Amplifier(Oct 8 2019) for the Absolute Sound
@markusthenaimnut.  

Did you ever get the chance to compare your Supratek to a Don Sachs? One of your previous posts mentioned having this opportunity so was just curious if that ever happened.
Not yet.  We've had trouble getting our schedules to line up. Still want to do it. 
I have spent decades as a hardcore audiophile.  Have had at least 15 preamps and that number or more amps ranging from solid state, class D, hybrids, and tubes.   I peruse these threads all of the time which is how I found out about Sachs preamp which I have in my main system.  The reports of the Sonics from the Supratek preamps is also quite impressive.  Sachs and Supratek both sound like they have disruptive products that audiophiles will hear and ask themselves., why should I spend more.  In my exercise room I have the even cheaper Schilling preamp that is quite good.

I often have my equipment modded so the internal layout is important to my modder.  I have no desire to mod the Sachs preamp as it sounds phenomenal.  Since I have the audiophile disease in a bad way, I want to try one of the Supratek preamps and possibly one of the dehavilland preamps just for comparison.  However, I dont give a rat's ass about the internal aesthetics of the gear when considering these purchases.  

I am a sensible audiophile.  This descriptor though is probably an oxymoron lol.  I would hate to be a manufacturer of high end preamps going up against the three (two of which I own) previously mentioned preamps.  Just my two cents from a non-insider...
@jaymark Please do report back if you do try those competitors!  I'd love to hear the report.  I'd also recommend replacing the Miflex capacitors on the primary outputs if you do get the modding itch.  Not sure it it's covered in this thread or another, but I have Duelund tinned copper CASTs and love them.  And few other users have put in VH Audio ODAMs and said similarly superlative things about the change.
@jaymark   How does the Truth preamp compare to the Sachs in your system? Yes, thanks for taking up the cause to do a direct comparison between the Sachs and Supratek!
Hope you understand the limitations of a direct comparison by someone else, unless they talk your audio language (which, speaking generally, is not often the case, at least not without repeated questioning). It’s like comparing the effect of a tube change, something I posted about the other day on a What’s Best Forum in relation to Lampi dac and Supratek Chardonnay. I have no doubt one of the two tubes, the one most transparent, detailed, lively, articulate, etc. would be the favorite of most, "the best," but I preferred the one that is less transparent, etc., because instead of finding myself focused on the first’s wonderful analytics, the second draws me into the music emotionally. Yet, there are a whole lot of people, if not most these days, for whom analytics, "sonic effects," are their emotional draw. So is the person doing the comparison the same or similar to you? It is no different with preamps. In fact, the problem is even more difficult with tube gear, because the comparison may be made on the basis of the provided tubes, which may or may not be of equal cost/sonics and thus the best presentation of the developers’ current ideas about voicing. Some tube rolling might change the comparison dramatically.

I chose the Supratek Chardonnay for a few reasons:
- true balanced outputs at no extra cost vs. faux balanced outputs, meaning impedance issues running to low impedance amps (active speakers), and additional costs for dealing with it (cost for different value caps)
- sound intentionally on the warm side (I don’t see anything about tone/pitch in the Sachs’ write up or in customer comments, or in discussing the sonics of the provided/recommended tubes)
- separate power supply
- lifetime transferable warranty vs. "one full year" (in bold) to the original buyer for the Sachs. Record of units lasting decades.
- a good case made for point to point wiring, however "messy"
- lower upfront cost and possible tube rolling costs not that much
@t_ramey I have no doubt that the Truth can be very good in some systems, but it didn't do much in mine.  I had one for about a month and eventually went back to source-direct since the improvement was small.  When I bought a DS preamp, that was certainly not the case.  Instead I had a substantial improvement in sound across the board and will never go back to source-direct.

As always, these impressions are totally system dependent (mine is posted here).  There are plenty of people who's ears & systems I trust who have thoroughly enjoyed the Truth.