Im with Newbie and macdad by and large.
There are now four high end dealerships in my area, I believe, unless one or more has recently exited. Two of these locations will never have my business
nor from what Ive gathered here and elsewhere online, will they have the $$$ out of other peoples pockets native to this area
. As they maintain a level of people skills that push more away from their doors than they keep returning. The air there is so arrogant its become more a joke than a concern. How these places remain open confounds me. Their sales expectations are for lay downs, and the discounts asked for when actually given are laughable
On a $3500 MSRP Ss preamp, they offered me a $50 discount
. For cash. The audition was about 10 minutes, and I was forced to wait for about an hour and forty five minutes to hear THEIR musical selection, not mine. This wasnt my only attempt to do business with these folks
. Yet the end result and ongoing practices were continuely evident on each occasion. Ive since learned my lesson with these goobers. As far as Im concerned, they no longer exist.
One other dealership in this region does go out of his way to be assistive and informative, and is far more flexible on pricing. He also carries now consignment merchandise, and sells demo units at times with attractive price points
yet remains well away from me.
I usually attempt to do business with this dealer first
IF a thing I want is something that he does inventory.
As a former seller of electronics and other major home products I found out a few things
dealerships or outlets require a certain amount of profit to stay in business. No question about that what so ever. Thats just fine with me.
Sometimes -folks eat steak
sometimes they eat beans
. But they will always eat. Determining those who are of either ilk is the key. Being flexible with pricing and having attributes conducive to recurring sales is vastly important. .. such as service, on site support, setup, installation, sales upgrades, etc. The more the better.
I suspect those which afford such things to their customers these practices are all but gone now
. Or are in the slightest minority.
Online purchases dont afford me any of these items
as for all intents and purposes, and they arent available locally then it makes sense to buy online
at your own risk, for the savings alone these days.
When local B&M dealers come to realize some of their buying public arent the steak eaters, theyll get more competitive with pricing in order to get that slice of business away from web sales. Even poor profit margins on a sale now and then are better than walks or no sales.. Always.
Personally Ive no problems paying a little more for a piece from a local dealer than I could have gotten online
but Ill not pay a lot more. A $100
$200? Even $300? Possibly. $500 $800 or $1,000 more? Nope. Never.
Especially when thereafter no added support is available and for all intents and purposes Im in the same boat as if I bought the item via the web. It simply does not make good sense to pay far more when nothing more is being added into the deal .. Period. |
I wonder what will be around longer... this website, other's like it, or local dealers?
Or.... maybe even this thread and other's like it?
In each case we can uncover more opinions, facts, and perspectives, and seller/buyer relationships via the local shops, or simply leave things go whatever way they might of their own volition.
Remember too the dart thrown into the local distribution array by VSA not too long ago, without indicating this new plan to their current dealer force beforehand.
Somewhat contrary to the gloomy atmosphere surrounding local audio entities, is within the past six years two more BM audio stores have sprouted up in my area, making for a total of four independently owned & operated outlets, whilst major chains are reorganizing or dying off.
Two of these are making some presence kknown here.
Another which relocated to this area from a left coast location it previously maintained, fuels it's own web centered buying aspiration.
???
|
Im pretty sure those folks who can pony up the $$$$$$$$$ for Yachts & Bugattis arent too concerned with web sales of used audio gear. The ones capable of laying out such copius amounts of money will continue to do so as the spirit moves them irrespective of current financial prosperity or woes. Speculative buyers, or collectors might well pull in their claws during such instances
or not.
Top tier stuff sells to an entirely different clientele. Dream systems arent bought by dreamers generally speaking.
When we were kids wed all day dream out loud as to what we would own had we the $$$ for it. Eventually someone would opt for a Leer. Shortly thereafter another naysayer would chime in, If you could buy a Leer jet, you couldnt afford the gas for it!
I always thought if I could afford a private jet, gas would be the least of my worries.
When I was selling electronics, the owner of the building we leased dropped in to discuss the sale of it to us. This fella owned a goodly number of warehouses around the US. He was a car collector too.
He liked Fords especially. He had so many from the line, even FoMoCo would contact his mechanics when another collector needed something special from an older model Ford he owned, such as a replacement part. His techs, upon approval, would pull the part off one of his cars, pack it up and send it to FoMoCo. FoMoCo would then fabricate several of this sought out part, sell the one in question, inventory another one or two, and send duplicates and the orig back to this collector.
As such, hes never at a loss for new parts for his old cars.
Have your people call my people
well do brunch sometime.
There are markets which will remain recession proof.
I think the list of buyers for the Hope Diamond, or Fabergee Eggs, were quite short
and financing was not discussed.
Uber expensive items aside
What continues to intrigue me is the actual retail price of audio or video gear.
Just what is the actual price? MSRP?
Ive always felt the going price for a thing is simply what it can regularly be sold for.
Over inflation of a products list price is nonsense, and often laughable. Whatever it sells for in the end is its price. Thats it. Finis.
Any number of dealers or makers do submit to buyers a Yada Yada amp goes for $10K
. BUT theyll sell it direct to you for $6K and avoid the middle man.
Hmmm. Then isnt it worth only $6K?
For a thing to be worth $10K
. sales of it for that amount would be required to substantiate it
just saying it isnt making it so.
Of course, those people who have people might have paid top dollar for it, though I seriously doubt it
. Thats why they have those people around them.
No one, rich or poor, pays more than they can legitimately justify paying for a given thing.
The value of it is another story entirely.
I think that is where we find our own faults
we value certain electronic creations at times, more than needs be. You know
its one of them
Man! I just got to have that yada Yada preamp, or some such thing!
Ive quit telling my friends what I pay for the stuff I get any more.
or anyone else for that matter.
I just tell em to stay behind the yellow tape I have strung up about the rig and speakers, and dont step on any cables, or touch anything
especially the remotes!
Oh, and yeah
. When they ask about my antiques, I say, Yeah
They still make tube gear. |
Ive never inquired as to how much a thing costs to produce. Never have I begrudged any for the differences between presumed or known, production costs and those fees invested in bringing it to point of sale.
As was said, It really is none of my business
unless Im an investor in that enterprise.
I think some now not too distant inventions have simply changed how we are now able to do business. Regularly. Routinely, and with a bit of safety
. The web, is just that invention.
Its changed the face of sales at large. Mighty quickly now folks are turning to it more so every day as a viable instrument for gaining both needs and wants. As familiarity grows and comfort levels increase by its presence and use, more dollars will go its way. Given the current retail atmosphere in general, B&M retailers are hard pressed to compete with it.
It is solely my preff that IF at all possible I would rather deal face to face than electronically, byte to byte, as it were. Always. Sadly, such is no longer the regular case
in my area, at least. Mostly.
The web factor has made its mark on audio for sure. The days of the affluent, aloof, and erudite high end audio establishments are numbered.
If I want to be ignored, or condescended too, Ill just go over to my friends house and try to get her cat to come to me when I call it.
The days of sellers catering to buyers have been changed. Albeit, this take it or leave it,
its not my job
. You want a what? Attitudes are more a sociological fall out, than anything else.
I doubt seriously those who do inventory goods, and have a commitment to service and support for their customers past, present, and future are likely doomed if not already entrenched in a major metro area
for little more reason than current and ongoing social attitudes, as well as the apparent ease of double clicking
. Or reaching out and touching someone across the globe by phone.
Routinely displayed elements of Class or its absence, also seem in short supply these days
. Or theres far too much distinction between them, by some
. And adds into the mix of reasons for some of my statements as to why home grown affairs are falling away as of late.
As for value
in a valueless society, price remains king
. And thats a tremendously sad epitaph. |
Old school themes in a new age of "me dfirst" & "Me... Me... Me" operetas forces change... somewhere
. By someone.
20 years ago any of the local high end shops offered all the amenities. Sadly, that has since changed.
10 years ago, despite the then present attitude of indefference and arrogance my local dealers were tryijng on for size at the time, one could still talk to them intelligently.... now and then.
Since the turn of the century, my local B&M outlets have become entrenched in that austere "We got the cure for cancer here so ante up", theme for committing to high end retail... by and large. Half do, and the other half are at the very least yet approachable.
NONE of these outlets have employees over 40 save the owners. Some have no working knowledge of anything other than SS equipment by the largest of majorities. Only one just outside my area has any working knowledge of analog, and tube gear. Naturally he can not carry every lineup, nor the entireity of any of the lines he inventories. His people skills however are far superior to these other yahoos.
Is it any wonder that those in similar situations have not fallen prey to mid fi large box outlets, and been scooted away from their local audio authorities by their poor experiences at these establishments?
Weve spoken of price & value here, and Ive alluded to simple change being the prime mover
but isnt this debate one more of RIGHT or WRONG, than these 3 other FACTORS? In truth, isnt competition always good? Good for the consumer, and the seller?
Competition provides us all utilities to suppluy both desires and staples. To be a cut above the rest (which should be a fundamental aspiration for any business ethic) presumes every effort should point towards that end
being top notch. The best.
Every sale has elements which must be attended too
Qualifying the customer
. Justifying the cost of the item
. And providing them a REASON to buy it or from you more particularly.
B&M stores either will acknowledge the value of establishing good customer relations and the viability of web based resources these buyers can and do possess, or theyll die out. Likely sooner than later.
So then, is the case of supporting local dealerships a more complex dynamic than a simple one for so very many?
Or is it merely the right or wrong thing for us to be so myopic with our purchases when other avenues exist and yet continue to reinforce local over outside enterprises?
Like it or not thats simple competition. But now, your competitors arent just down the street or close by.
I submit still more change is inevitable in both instances. I dont think its a matter of being pennywise & pound foolish either. Audio nuts are usually informed and intelligent sorts. If not straight away, they become so very soon
and we are all people. People as it happens require a bit more attention generally speaking.
We all appreciate being appreciated.
Store owners must develop or attain more arrows for their quiver. Exclusivity comes to mind, yet has its own shortcomings. Then theres people skills. Availability. Service. Lets not forgoe convenience either. Flexibility with pricing must now take a step up too.
Either you are in the race, or you are buying tickets ffor it
. Or ya just stay home and watch it on TV. None of those scenarios is either more right or more wrong
and they do translate to this topic.
One of the above 3 things, being in, going to, or staying home, occurs based upon whether or not a good enough REASON for them is being presented at the time a decision needs to be made.
For some it will always be price. For others, value is key. Brand loyalty for another. Ego counts for something here too. But all require a reason sufficient for them to pony up their ducks either at this place or that
on the whiz bang Yada Yada you sell or another gleaming zippity sap creation elsewhere.
Ive been asking myself this one question when it comes to buying just about anything costing over a few hundred dollars
. Why should I buy this from you when I go to spend money.
Be it a conscious thought, or a subconscious one, I believe we all do that on some level.
and so, weve passed onto REASONS to buy, from price, value, and the loyalistic morals and ethics of things
. Or so its how I feel about it all anyhow.
So
like the lady sang
give me some kind of reason, and Ill turn right back around.
|
RE Vandy's big gun
There are, amazingly enough, other models in that ionisphereic range from which to pick. Certainly, 'got rocks loyalists' will be all over them. I'd feign placing a number on units being moved short term. < 50 pairs in a year? More?
I wonder just how many of the top tiered units from any makers line up are sold on average, annually. On these shores or others.
I do tend to agree also that the greatest majority of 'high end audio' devices tend to reflect performance to expense of ownership more often than not. Amps, preamps, sources and cabling usually do reflect and validate their promises of performance to cost... and there are exceptions to the rule in each genre of course.
With speakers though, it does seem otherwise a bit more often. Overachievers there do continue to spring up to public attention more readily. Like as not it's a mere attribute of their portion of the system's overall performance, and how integral or impactful they can be to it.
I sure would love, for just one time to hear some $40 or $50K speakers all set up right... AND then hear some of lesser expense in the exact same setup. Or vice versa... just to hear what's what on that level. Just once.
BTW.... just how much total cost should be in a rig whose speakers are right at $50K, anyway? $50K? $100K $200K?
... and would they use 'em for HT? I bet someone would.
|
Larry
Re "...letting $100K sit around is suicide..."
Probably. but it would sure seem one pair at least needs to be 'show ponies', huh? Maybe even two pairs.
Hmmmm. There's a demo deal for someone, down the road. Step right up folks... pristine shape, near no use and only with top eschelon gear... now only $39,999.
so what then is the big diff when going from say 10K speakers to 40K speakers, sonicly? Is it really a night and day thing, with all else being equal in the rig? By gosh it sure oughta be. |
Godbless
I'm sure you know this, but I'll say it anyway...
hype = sales.
Latest & greatest (?) = Sales.
System synergy (or lack their of) = sales
Money woes = sales
... also likes and dislikes, etc. all equal sales. Popularity too accounts for merch trading hands. On any given day look at the numbers of REL, Velodyne, Cardas, Shunyata, BW & Pass gear available.
Should numbers of listings indicate an item good or not so good?
I also think as there are numerous BM outlets for these same items, the volume being traded here makes a statement as well. Either BM's will adjust to the webs influence, and/or become more flexible with their cash paying customers, or they'll miss out on a share that could well have kept them going a while longer.
Around my local area, one can expect only 20% off on demos but with warranty yet no in house service. That's at just one place. The other's don't do even that. So my general area sucks for BM deals, and service. Just one has customer - people skills worth a darn too. Far as I'm concerned, and a number of others about me and here on A'gone, there's only one place to even try looking to for A&V gear sales. Consequently, the Web and phone calls to makers selling direct is truly the only way to go... but I still try to deal with the one BM worth going to here.
People in general, respond to being treated with respect. They also respond to being treated otherwise. The response merits both paths accordingly. |
