Super Scoutmaster or Teres?

I'm looking to upgrade my VPI HW19 Junior turntable and after speaking at length with Mike at VPI today, I'm close to deciding to get the Super Scoutmaster. Before doing so, I'm wondering if a Teres 245 or 255 turntable would be the better choice. With a $900 Origin Live tonearm, the Teres would cost about a thousand dollars less, and I've heard great things about their tables, especially their motors. On the other hand, I feel comfortable with the stability of VPI as a company and am impressed with the basic turntable that I have. I also like the outer ring clamp that they provide to hold down the vinyl. I'd like to hear your views.
I think you mean the Teres would cost $1000 MORE than the Scoutmaster. The 245 starts at $2450 without arm. I would suspect the Teres is the better table, but others will have to gage the improvement since I have no experience with it. I will add that VPI told me the Scoutmaster would be a significant improvement over my HW-19, so I too am considering the Scoutmaster.
I never compared the Scoutmaster to the Teres.

However, in other listening tests available here in the Audiogon archives, and on AA, the Teres mid-line models compared favorably over the higher-line VPI models such as the TNT5.

Thus, I suspect that the Teres would be a better performer, but it is always best to audition if you can. Each listener has to decide this kind of thing personally.
The original question is regarding the SUPER Scoutmaster($5k), not the Scoutmaster($2400).

Unfortunately, I've never been able to hear the Teres tables, although I hope to. Any Philly area Teres owners out there? I know a bunch of us that want to come over for a listen. Drinks are on us! Cheers, Spencer
Get the turntable which using STAND ALONE MOTOR......
The super scoutmaster is awesome man, i would take it over the teres.
Damn, gotta read the fine print!
Good advice, but they both have freestanding motors. ;-)

What differences lead you to prefer the SS to the 245/255? Can you elaborate?
In long run, you can further improve the performance of the Tere by adding better motor, better platter or even built a bigger/heavy plinth loaded with sand.

Where as the VPI you can't do much. If you modify it, you might not sell it easily.

By the way, VPI is not a very good maker of turntable to start with.

Rather sweeping statement re: quality of VPI products. Would you care to elucidate, or, are just looking for a fight ala Raul? (I detect a similar grammatical structure in your posts)
...or lack of!
Just a reminder: not everyone has English as his or her first language, and there are many people posting to this board for whom this is the case. While we may disagree with each other over the CONTENT of our posts, let's please acknowledge that English is a very challenging for someone to learn as a second language.

Now, that aside...

Edle, I'm also curious about why you throw about such a statement about VPI. I think your sweeping statement is grossly unfair to Harry Weisfeld who has always worked very hard to deliver a very high cost-to-value product and who stands solidly behind his products. Additionally, during the "dark days" for the survival of LP as a medium, Harry was one of the staunch supporters of the superiority of vinyl, a stance for which I will always be grateful. So, if there is some rationale for your statement, I'd be interested in hearing you state your argument.
(English is my second language.)

My sarcasm was directed more at the lack of sensitivity (read: stupidity) displayed in the above VPI bash.
My post was two-fold: One, to ask for clarification of a sweeping statement regarding HW's lifelong work.

Two, Edle's tone and generalization ring very much like those of Raul. I was wondering if they were they same person using two different monikers here...
Vvrinc, I agree that Edle's VPI bash lacked a lot of sensitivity; I thought it also lacked thoughtfulness, courtesy, finesse, invitation to dialog... the list goes on. We are in no disagreement on this score.

If Edle were attacking Teres instead of VPI,would you be more calm?

Besides Brinkmann,I'm a VPI owner and I have been using VPI Aries JMW10 for 3 years (I also had owned Scout for 3 weeks before selling it on Gon)

Please don't be mad if someone dislike a product that you have since it just makes things worst!


VPI is fine turntable maker. The only problem with VPI is just the arm. It doesn't have the Anti-Skating. I've never been able to get it right,as my 10.5 (Brinkmann,not VPI), with twisting the wire. I love both VPI/Teres clamp technique and will love to try the outer ring in the future.


I meant 2 years.
Teres, VPI,SME, Walker (insert brand here). I still would have called them on it. It is inappropriate to take such a cheap shot without offering your reasons for doing so.

Therein lies the inherent problem with the Internet. It is the "world's largest soapbox". In the anonymity of cyberspace, it is easy to hit-and-run without defending your position.

I have no problem with someone who doesn't like VPI products, even though I myself have opted to use them. Making a broad generalization is what I take issue with. several responses to this thread have asked politely (despite the crass nature of Edle's comment) for clarification; none has been forthcoming. Further, the remark regardless of manufacture it was aimed at, contributes nothing to the subject or nature of the thread.
Point taken.
Excellent point Joe. Well now that that's over (hopefully!) I am enjoying the sound of my Aries and JMW10. I think the Scoutmaster is a great table that is perhaps a tad more lively than my Aries/10 combo, although I do prefer the more neutral and slightly softer sound( than the scoutmaster) of the Aries/10. The Super Scoutmaster, while I have not had the pleasure to have heard it..I know that it does indeed compete with more of the TNT v4-5 based on VPI's own evaluation of it and it's designed price point. The Teres 245 is a awesome table and one which has many of us into Vinyl very excited about.( Im excited, and haven't even heard a Teres!) I think you cant go wrong with either choice here( Cop out answer I know) but, at this level It does become a choice based on reviews,inquirey, personal preference and designs. Of course money may play a definate role too. Best of Luck with your choice.

I think the Scoutmaster is a fine table. The only thing that keeps me from buying it is the tonearm.

According to VPI tech support, I must use the VPI JMW-9 tonearm with the Scoutmaster, which is not my favorite tonearm. It lacks antiskating adjustment, and Michael Fremer noticed that the JMW-9 had a "Parkinson’s-like" performance when the cueing level was used. (Maybe Michael was doing something wrong?) Also the tonearm is on the light side with about 7 grams of effective mass, which might pose a problem when it is used with low compliance phono cartridges unless head-shell weighting is employed.

I have a Scoutmaster with all the Super upgrades (center clamp, ring clamp, and SDS) except for the HRX motor, which results in a price comparable to the Teres + arm; plus, I assume it would be possible to upgrade to the HRX motor later. Like you, I thought about the Teres. However, I finally decided to go with the VPI, and I don't regret it. I love the ring clamp and the center clamp, and the table looks great. Although I haven't had a chance to try out the Teres, you can't go wrong if you choose the Scoutmaster (in the Super configuration or with just some of the upgrades). It is extremely easy to set up, which was important to me. Finally, I wanted the option to add an extra tonearm for a mono cartridge. With the Scoutmaster, for a modest amount, you can buy an extra arm and very easily switch arms. I believe only the very high end Teres will allow you to mount more than one tonearm.
I would not worry about whether Teres will be around in a few years or not. Basically, if that is a concern buy a spare bearing. Any quality motor can be substituted for the Teres motor in the event of a failure and inability to obtain a replacement.

I would, furthermore, urge you to consider the Scheu Premier Mk II. It looks a great table and I've seen two for sale in the past couple of years; both sold instantly for more than used tables typically sell for. Chris Feicker/Scheu advised me a Premier II with the dual arm option and a Scheu Classic Unipivot (12" version) would cost 2200 US including shipping. As there is no sales tax involved that has to be the deal of the century for a reference class turntable. The 12" was recommended by Chris when I mentioned my usage of Denon DL103R cartridges.

Teres, Scheu, top of the line VPA; take your pick as they are all up there in the top tier of table.
In response to the VPI 10.5 Memorial Arm not being any good because it doesn't have an anti skate device. If anyone has a 12 inch Memorial Arm at a good price please contact me.

Thanks, Vv32BL
Isn't VPI supposed to release a JMW 9 tonearm with an antiskating device sometime early next year?
C123666 - where to buy a Premier with Scheu tonearm for that price? I am in USA.
You contact Scheu directly. That was the price I was quoted a couple of months back and was surprised; maybe they made a conversion error as that included shipping, too, which must cost a bit from Germany to California for a 70 lb table. Contact Chris Feickert at this address:

If you send me your regular email address I can forward you the pricing list that Chris sent to me. The Premier with the 12" arm was hard to beat. They will also make you a deal on an Allaerts cartridge; not cheap but one of the best. My email is

Bear in mind that I think this quote was for the two tonearm model, too. Being able to accept a 12" arm opens up all sorts of possibilities (morch 12", sme 12", ikeda, fidelity research, scheu arms).

Another arm to consider is the one made by Carlos Morsiani. It is a hand made unipivot design he will supply in 9 or 12" length. Carlos recommended the Teres and Scheu hands down over any other turntable (except for his custom creations, of course). His arm is about 1000 US landed and an excellent value as he will make it to suit the type of cartridge you like to use.
C123666 writes:
Another arm to consider is the one made by Carlos Morsiani. It is a hand made unipivot design he will supply in 9 or 12" length. Carlos recommended the Teres and Scheu hands down over any other turntable (except for his custom creations, of course). His arm is about 1000 US landed and an excellent value as he will make it to suit the type of cartridge you like to use.
At CES 2004, Reference Audio Mods had a Morsiani C37 wooden tonearm on a Teres 200. This arm featured bronze metallic parts and Audio Consulting silver wiring. The price was quoted in their handout at $6,500.

It sounded excellent with a Koetsu Onyx Gold, retipped by Torlai.

I'm surprised to hear that you can get one for a grand. There must be more than one model.

There is more than one model. I think he calls it the CM1 . Yes, the wooden one is exorbitantly priced and I'd go for a Schroder before that mostly for resale value. The other one can be had in a standard arm or a 12" arm and Carlos will set the arm up for the type cartridge you wish to use it with. Here is a link to a TNT Audio review:

Here is the link to Carlos' site and the page with the CM1 arm. He has all sorts of technical stuff explaining how he designs/why and builds the arm. My price quote was about a year ago and the dollar has continued sucking against the Euro so expect his prices to be a bit more.
I contacted Carlo about the CM-1 and he responded today with "Sorry,the production is discontinued.
Best regards,Carlo Morsiani." I was surprised - anyone know the scoop?
pity....and therein lies the problem with purchasing very low production hand made a few years selling one used may be difficult for those that have one....VPI will still be in business and supporting its product more than likely.