check out a site called Funkaudio.com.Also look at the Seaton Submersive or from JTR the JTR Orbit shifter or the S1 or S2 to name a few.
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Since budget isn't an issue there are now a growing selection of manufactures that offer internal calibration and/or equalization which usually makes integrating with the main speakers a matter of infinite personal taste or at the very least a simple automatic no brainer.
Personally, I went from a large 18" to two 12" subs and found the room interaction much more to my liking not to mention they're much easier to locate. On the other hand I find Larry Greenhill's Stereophile reviews and description of large subwoofer systems intriguing and in the case of my old 18" sub very accurate if you're so inclined.
My subs have remote control of most of their functions which makes individual recording adjustments from the listening position a snap. Sometimes a recording could use a little more or a little less low frequency volume and occasionally a different EQ setting which have been preset.
I found it very helpful that the internal calibration offer both auto and manual settings as well as a visual graphic interface with a computer or a video display. In my previous home I found that I had the need for high pass filtering of my main speakers which my subs offer. The conditions of the current room allow running the mains full range.
Good room and mains integration is actually quite subtle and is usually only noticeable when the extra low frequency system is turned off. In hindsight I would have chosen two 10" subs for my 15'X28'X8' room.
@Shiva, where can I find a Seaton dealer in U.S. or Canada?
@M-db, do you think running the subs speaker connectors to the speakers allows for better blending with the mains? In my case with the Casta C's the bass driver is very fast and acurate. I would need a subwoofer(s) that can achieve the lower octaves - 30-5hz with the same acuracy as the Casta's.
I've never understood the notion of a driver being fast (relative to what?) and why the adjective is always applied to woofers. And what is accuracy in this case?
I cannot imagine why one connection scheme over another would allow better blending. I assume you'll be connecting for bass augmentation, so it's not like you'll need a high pass filter.
I use a pair of Hsu ULS-15 subs (sealed cabinets with 15" drivers) with 3-way active studio monitors. I've been very happy with the subs.
05-06-15 Bacardi "@M-db, do you think running the subs speaker connectors to the speakers allows for better blending with the mains?"
I apologize, my statement is misleading. I used my Velodyne DD Plus' line level High Pass filtered output to accommodate the use of a much lower powered stereo amplifier while one of the mono-blocks was being serviced. This line level high pass method is usually tried when accommodating small satellite speakers to achieve a smoother response.
Are you considering the speaker/high level connectivity method used by REL? I found my short time with a Studio III and this method of connectivity limiting in some important areas. I was able to improve the subs performance somewhat by using an equalized line level signal from my then, DD-18.
Keep in mind my criticizing subwoofer performance with the staggering room variables that confront producing extra low frequency playback can be quite worthless. I do feel strongly regarding the value of ever improving subwoofer equalization and the ability to remotely control deep bass.
If your goal is large air then you might want to expand your search outside the Hi-Fi community to Danley Sound Labs and Meyer Sound. Good luck with your search.
I may look at the Danley subs if they have a scaled down horn that is wife friendly. If you could see the Casta C's in gloss brown grain you would be in awwwww....
I have looked at the latest Seaton submersible sub and it is very nice but the pricing is well over $3000 for dual 15's in one box. I think if the Danley's have something in that range I would be done and not need another. I don't think the JTR's look as nice as they have a commercial look to them(not my cup of tea or my wifes).
Bacardi, re: the GoldenEar SuperSub... I read Larry Greenhill's post about it and it seems fine. I'd still take my pair of 15" Hsu for about the same money. There are so many really good subs on the market now... Velodyne, Paradigm, JL Audio for those that want to spend more; SVS, Hsu for those that don't. I'm convinced that setup is much more important than any specific sub (assuming it's from a reputable manufacturer), so I've gone the more radiating area per dollar route and have been pleased with the result.
I've had a SVS PB13Ultra in piano black recently(sold) and I found with movies it hit the bottom octaves very well but music just couldn't keep up with my other Casta model D8's(2x8"woofers in each). I now have the model C's(15" woofers in each) which definitely hit down to 30ish but I still want the lower end. When I mentioned speed/acuracy of woofer relates to timing of the driver. The Castas are very tight and acurate to 30hz giving the sealed cabinet and custom made horns and drivers. I don't believe any sub can be as acurate as a floorstanding driver in its same driver size. But that's just my opinion from experiences. Since these Casta model C's(28,000) I've got dynamics, speed, acuracy, dimensiality and soundstage I've never reached before. The Svs SB13 ultra looks like a fantastic sub too but I would need to run two of them. I will specify on going sealed as I ran the pb13 ultra in sealed mode.
The Seaton Submersive F2 HP is also sealed with 2x15" drivers. And supposedly reaches 5hz. Two would be crazy and they aren't cheap - $2800 each. I could get two Svs SB13 ultra for $3000 shipped. I may contact someone at Danley to see what they think of my set-up.
I've had a SVS PB13Ultra in piano black recently(sold) and I found with movies it hit the bottom octaves very well but music just couldn't keep up with my other Casta model D8's(2x8"woofers in each).What were you hearing that led you to think "it just couldn't keep up?"
Ported cabinets typically have greater group delay than sealed cabinets, but I understand no research has been done to know at what point it becomes audible. From the measurements I've seen on the web, I don't recall any ported sub having a delay greater than one cycle, which some folks believe might be audible.
My first sub, almost 20 years ago, was a very basic Velodyne ported model. I had to connect it via speaker cables, due to the integrated amp I was using, and it was a terrible experience. It put me off of subs for probably 10 years. The dealer simply gave the standard BS that the little Velodyne just wasn't fast enough to mate well with the B&W stand mount speakers I was using. I now know that my setup was just crap and it had nothing to do with the sub.
When I mentioned speed/acuracy of woofer relates to timing of the driver.I don't know what that means.
The Castas are very tight and acurate to 30hz giving the sealed cabinet and custom made horns and drivers. I don't believe any sub can be as acurate as a floorstanding driver in its same driver sizeHow do you know the speaker is accurate? What does that mean? I was not present at any of the recording sessions of the music I listen to, so I have no idea whether or not what I'm hearing is accurate. I have measured my speakers in my room and I have a pretty good idea that the FR is quite smooth, so the speakers/room aren't adding/subtracting much from the music. But, I'm guessing that's not what you mean.
Bacardi, I don't doubt for a second that you heard something you found "off." A level mismatch can be perceived as all sorts of things. When JA does an AB comparison between components he sets levels to be within 0.1dB. Room modes can easily cause level dips and peaks of 5dB - 10dB.
Assuming you were not high-passing the main speakers, it's possible that the extended bass response of your new speakers excited a room mode so what you were hearing wasn't the sub, but actually the main speakers. Remember that we setup main speakers for good imaging not bass response.
I suggest you measure your main speakers to see what their bass response looks like in your room. Then you'll have some idea of what may be necessary to integrate a sub.
You can download test tones from the Real Traps web site.
The Revel B15 is a wonderful subwoofer. Fast, punchy, "accurate", as well as deep(17ish Hz with boundry gain). I am using mine with an SVS SB13 Plus(95% same as SB13U) and they mate up very well. Though a bit primitive with today's digital EQ software, the B15's 3-band parametric EQ works pretty darn well with integrating your mains with your sub. Very hard to find under $1000.00 on the used market but not impossible.
I also would not hesitate to suggest a pair of SB13U's if the B15 seems too difficult to obtain.
Bill, I used to have a SVS PB13 ultra because of wanting a sealed sub and eventually two. At the time I had Casta model D8's and didn't need the sub after getting the model C's. Now I want to integrate the Casta C's with a faster sub. The Revel B15A seems to have better versatility with blending with the mains which I need. The Casta model C's are very dynamic, fast and accurate to 30HZ. If I find one Revel B15, I will then get another later. My room later will be 22x25x8. That's 4400Sq feet. I'll need two. I do agree with your suggestion about two SB13 Ultras. I just think the 15" driver will play lower for the movie section and dig deeper than my mains as they too have 15" paper drivers in each of them. Very tight, articulate and accurate in a sealed floorstander. They are amazing.