Subwoofer for nearfield Omega Compact Alnico Monitors setup


I just purchased the Omega CAMs and I'm driving them directly out of the RCA output of my Chord Dave.
The room is around 16sqm (172sqft) and 4m (13ft) high.
The speakers are 1.2m (4ft) from each other and from the listening position and 20cm (8inch) from the wall.

The speakers sound truly fantastic, I could describe them like bigger Utopia headphones but with much more soundstage depth and less bass.
I can't say they are too lean, the bass is there, tight and precise, just perfect for Folk Music, Jazz and even classic Rock.
But obviously moving to EDM (yes, I'm quite eclectic on the genres...) you feel that there is something missing.

I've been reading a lot about the benefits of adding a sub to a stereo setup and would like to give it a go.
I am considering subs for monitoring like Yamaha SH8S and JBL LSR310S (also because they have an XLR in which would be perfect as I would connect them to the XLR out of the DAVE).
However there is plenty of more commercial solutions (like REl, SVS etc...) and I can't figure out which direction to take.

I'm looking for a SUB that will blend in the sound of the monitors without becoming too aggressive (music ONLY, no HT for God's sake!).

Any suggestion or comment will be welcome.
doraymon
Omega also makes subs. I have their DeepHemp 8 paired with Super 3i Monitors. Perfect match. I would recommend having a chat with Louis.
the bass will certainly blossom. it is an exercise in patience w omega loudspeakers. 
Yeah I am considering the DeepHemp 8 but before deciding if I want a sub or not I wanted to try something more palatable wallet wise.
@jmolsberg why you say it's an exercise in patience with omega laudspeakers?
 
OP, did you pass on the DeepHemp 8 since it didn’t have XLR inputs? 

I think the biggest issue will be finding a sub that keeps up with the Omegas in terms of pace (especially if you listen to EDM) - Omegas are a quick speaker.

If you don’t need XLR inputs my suggestions would be sealed designs (Omega DeepHemp or Rythmik L12) over ported with the exception of RSL’s Speedwoofer 10s per reviews.

No, I didn't pass on the DeepHemp 8 for the XLR, I can get a custom cable made easily. I'm still considering it.
And yes, I agree on your comment on the speed, the CAMs are just fantastic there.
my experience with omegas is it takes hundreds of hours for the bass to fill in. it will never be chest thumping bass but will be present and tuneful. 
my experience with omegas is it takes hundreds of hours for the bass to fill in. it will never be chest thumping bass but will be present and tuneful.
Most probably it's our own brain adapting and not the speakers getting better...
I'm looking at the B&W ASW608, Omega DeepHemp 8.
I'd consider the  Rythmik L12 as well but they don't ship to the place where I live.
i don't disagree but please visit AC omega forums. the consensus suggests - the drivers take time to fill in. 
my experience with omegas is it takes hundreds of hours for the bass to fill in. it will never be chest thumping bass but will be present and tuneful.

I had the same experience. I ran my Super 3i’s for 6 months without a sub and I’d say it took half that time for them to really come into their own bass-wise.
Thanks guys, I will try to hold on for a couple of months than.
Today I got a cheap pair of XLR to RCA cables and I connected my Home Theatre sub (B&W ASW610) directly to the Dave.
No positioning experiments (I just placed the sub below the desk) and no room treatment yet.

I wasn't satisfied by the result, I preferred the immaculate sound of the Omegas even if renouncing to a little bit of thump.
I will do more tests moving the sub and reducing its volume (@ 1/4th turn the volume was so high that I couldn't listen to a single track). Moving around the room with an SPL meter and some test tracks playing I believe I have big bump between 50 and 60Hz which is particularly strong exactly at my listening position.

I also have a pair of SAMS . Took about 300 hrs to break in . I’ve had two
other smaller ones over the years .
They are what they are, fantastic midrange, but you have to get up to
a 8k Tannoy to get any real dynamics in a single driver .
I cant speak for rock because I don’t listen to it but I read it is louder
but more compressed than the jazz and classical I do.


SAMS are about as good as anything with small Jazz groups and Classical Chamber music but lacking with big-band or Symphonic music . Not to say it’s bad, but just for the picky not quite there .

I never thought of going the sub route because I’ve heard heard a dozen Omega owners say, "Oh isn’t that great " when it was not .

I use it mostly for jazz in a smaller room and like them , but doubt I would have bought them had a nice guy I know not sold me a mint pair for 900$ when his firm moved him to Italy with 30 day notice .

I use it mostly for jazz in a smaller room and like them , but doubt I would have bought them had a nice guy I know not sold me a mint pair for 900$ when his firm moved him to Italy with 30 day notice .
I have to say I feel much more enthusiastic about my Omegas.
In my nearfield setup I found myself mesmerized by how realistic and engaging the music sounds out of the CAMs, thanks to a huge stereo image, a beautiful airy sound and the ability to reproduce the even the fastest transients (not trying to show off here with trendy words, what I mean is the ability to reproduce e.g. a piano or guitar note where you can hear the tiny change from when the note is struck to the quick decay immediately after).
Yes, the bass could do with a bit more energy, but hey, you get really a lot for giving up a little.

Excuse my ignorance but I don't understand what you mean with " you have to get up to a 8k Tannoy to get any real dynamics in a single driver".
What do you mean by real dynamics?
I recently paired a REL T/5i with my Super Alnico Monitor XRS, and while it took some effort to set it up, I am now pleased with the integration. I have the crossover and volume set super low, and the effect is to give a subtle but perceptible "lift" to the entire presentation. It does not present as boosted bass so much as fuller sound, and you don’t realize what it’s doing until you turn it off.

Edited to add that I mostly listen to acoustic small group jazz and chamber music (baroque).  A big time bass head might not be satisfied with what I've done, but it works for me!
The REL T/5i is exactly the one I am looking at together with cheaper solutions like the B&W ASW608.
I had Omega Alnico towers for 6 months.  Had to augment with subs.  The bass never "filled in."  Sorry, they're small drivers... not going to happen.  I bought a pair of matching Speed 10 subs from Louis.  Helped a lot, though difficult to integrate crossover/gain-wise -- took a lot of tweaking with different music -- but satisfying... until I found my new Harbeth 30.2s!!!
^ your pass w a dampening factor of 150 is a poor match with the omega single driver - sorry 
^ your pass w a dampening factor of 150 is a poor match with the omega single driver - sorry
Sorry, I didn't get what you mean?
over-dampened driver = loss of bottom end etc.,
my exact experiences w omega and high dampening amps.

https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/current-source-amplifiers-and-sensitive-full-range-driver...
Thanks, I understand.
I think the REL Tzero MkIII is more than enough for what I need.
Small, fast and REL.
Otherwise the T/5i but much more expensive.
Thoughts?
FYI: With a 20Hz wavelength of 60 feet, I would say subwoofers are always in the near field. 
@jmolsberg  thanks for the pass diy link -- great information!  too late to compare my omegas with my SET amps instead of the pass, but i'm curious again...
@doraymon: I have both the T/zero and the T/5i, and would have to recommend the T/5i. I bought it precisely because the Tzero, while performing well for its size, just doesn’t go low enough to really satisfy with the Omegas. It’s a 6.5" driver and you can’t fight the laws of physics. The T/5i doesn’t cost all that much more but ensures that you won’t find yourself second guessing your decision should the T/zero not fit the bill.

The damping factor issue is a real one with the Omegas, which I find very susceptible to over damping. I have two First Watt amps - the F2-J, with a damping factor of about 0.5, and the SIT-3, with a damping factor of about 30. Even though 30 is not a huge number by any measure, you can still tell the difference in bass performance. Notwithstanding the other differences between those two circuits, in general I think the lower the damping factor, the better with the Omegas!
The T/5i doesn’t cost all that much more but ensures that you won’t find yourself second guessing your decision should the T/zero not fit the bill.
@zm Here the T/5i costs almost 50% more than the Tzero! The problem is they don't stock and shipments from the UK are by courier (very expensive in relation to the price of the product) so the Tzero has a strong advantage. Also import taxes and VAT exacerbate the problem as they are calculated also on shipping...
I think I will get the Tzero, finger crossed!
@doraymon I understand.  The T/zero is a good unit for its size.  Good luck with it!
You made me hold the purchase with your comment... 
and impossible to audition before buying. Aaahhhhh
I eventually ordered the T/5i.
Too bad there is no stock, so I'll have to wait till March!

In the meantime I run some REW measurements of the speakers with a B&W ASW610 sub I borrowed from my living room Home Theatre.
I have a very messy situation on the bass, with several peaks and dips between 50 and 110Hz.

I tried adding 8 Auralex Lenrd bass traps placed on the two corners of the wall behind the speakers (two columns of 4 bass traps).
Not a huge change on the REW results and definitely impacting only above 200 Hz... not great