If you are referring to using the outputs of your power amplifier to drive a powered subwoofer which accepts speaker level inputs, you don't need heavy gauge speaker wire. In that situation what you are driving is the very high input impedance of the sub's amplifier, not the very low impedance of the sub's driver.
In that situation pretty much any gauge that is heavy enough to not be excessively fragile will do, such as 22 gauge or even smaller. The cable's resistance won't matter, because it will be negligible in relation to the sub's input impedance. Inductance won't matter either, because if it has any effects they would only be on high frequencies that the sub won't reproduce.
I suspect that the sonic differences between cables that are likeliest to result in that kind of application, if any, would result from the effects on the amplifier of the capacitance of the cable, and/or any RFI/EMI/electrical noise which the cable may pick up and introduce into the feedback loop of the amplifier, if the amplifier has a feedback loop. Such effects will be amplifier-dependent and setup-dependent and therefore won't have a great deal of predictability.
Also, if your amplifier has balanced or bridged outputs don't make the common mistake of connecting the sub's negative speaker level input terminal to the amp's negative output terminal. Post back if you'd like further info on that.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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I am considering using Vandersteen 2wq's with 3a sigs and the M5-HT crossover. So, according to Vandersteen, I will be connecting the sub and speakers to the amp output. |
General findings
(1) No you don't have to go to the "best" ... Translated as the most expensive . If you have the multiple five-figure ATC subs then maybe,"WTF .. Why not?" For the rest of us, read on.
(2) However, don't automatically go as cheapest-that-you-can-find 'em either and expect miracles. The better the subwoofer then a better cable follows intuitively. 99% of the popular AV subs are cheap build AV units with a chuffy and wooly bass response that can pass for movie blasts and booms but they won't be saved for AUDIO purposes by any expensive cable ... Full stop.
I had a NORDOST quality build subwoofer cable which was very good without a doubt, no complaints. it was not cheap.
BUT a dealer recommended a professionally terminated DIY subwoofer cable alternative that is a long-run REGA COUPLE interconnect clone.
it shocked me just how good it was -- it's a KLOTZ long-run IC cable terminated with NUETRIK Profit RCA connectors. Those Profis made a big difference. It worked better than the NORDOST with my audiophile grade Vandersteen and Castle ( designed and rebranded ATC ) subs.... And it was cheaper to boot.
My first AV sub was a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer that I used for movies with a low budget class priced TRIBUTARIES brand cable . It worked okay for movies. That modestly cheap sub predicated a matched budget class cable with no basis to think anything more expensive would step up its performance.
TAKEAWAY
As with all audio gear, system synergy matters and the cables -- ALL cables -- are very system dependent. |
I am considering using Vandersteen 2wq’s with 3a sigs and the M5-HT crossover. So, according to Vandersteen, I will be connecting the sub and speakers to the amp output. The manual for the 2wq sub indicates that its input impedance is more than 100,000 ohms, resulting in it having "no discernible effect on the output of the main amplifier." The manual also recommends physically connecting both the sub and the main speakers directly to the amplifier, and therefore the amplifier-to-sub connections will not be in the path to the main speakers. So what I said in my previous post is applicable. Regards, -- Al |
Part of my concern is that I have a fairly long run to my subs (25 feet). I am using Transparent Plus cables to the speakers, so, as per the Vandersteen hook up, I probably need the same length for the subs.
With this in mind, can you recommend a brand that I could use that doesn't cost too much.
Another Agon'er suggested the KnuKoncepts cable. The price is right. |
You have top-quality build subs that are FAR above the usual crappy cheap-build AV boom boxes that fail miserably for 2-channel audio performance ... Why would you purposefully downgrade their audio performance capabilities with choosing crap build cables ?...
There is a big problem here, as everything comes at a price (as in life). All ultra-cheapo cables you are contemplating are built to their race-to-the-bottom price-point i.e. the very cheapest price-point possible that is both shoddy Chi-fi labour assembly with the cheapest possible chi-fi crap quality parts components available. Their performance follows in lock-step... Full stop.
The price you pay is what you get out.
You have already paid out the step-up premium for the speaker superior audio performance capabilities that simply evaporate (waste?) with a diverging low-quality cable choice path.
These cheap cables are in a " just pick one" strata.. You don't need a list of preferreds because there are no "better" ones other than heavily biased anecdotal faves in these blogs that are generally the same in performance and quality... again full stop.
I have a VANDY sub myself, so I know it well especially its many strengths and possibilities.
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Gdnrbob, as I indicated earlier amplifier and system dependencies result in there being little predictability in this case (and in many others) as to the optimal cable choice. And I have no knowledge of the KnuKonceptz cables other than what appears at their website. But speaking from experience in a full-range application I doubt that you would be disappointed with this cable from Cable Solutions. Depending on your choice of the Vampire Wire terminations it is offered with, you would probably be spending a bit more than $100 for the two cables you need. Although per my earlier comments they are much heavier gauge than necessary (12 gauge in this case), compared to many such cables they are visually unobtrusive and highly flexible. BTW, when you said... I am using Transparent Plus cables to the speakers, so, as per the Vandersteen hook up, I probably need the same length for the subs. ... I assume you meant that the same length would be needed in order to physically locate everything where you would want it. There is no technical reason why the sub cables and the cables to the main speakers should necessarily be the same length. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Akg-ca- If I had unlimited funds, I would get what I know to be 'quality' cables, but I got caught up in buying more stuff than I originally thought I needed. I need to cut a few corners until work starts up again...
Amarg- thanks for the link. I will check them out. I ask about KnuKonceptz because the guy who sold me the DNA-1 thought them to be pretty good.
Regarding sub placement- unfortunately, I have to run some longish cables (25feet). I got some old Transparent Supers that needed repair, and was convinced to 'upgrade' to current model Plus series. It was way more than I wanted to spend, but I did it. With my new subs on the way, rather than invest in such expensive cable, I hoped I could get away with something more reasonable in cost (since they're only running low frequencies). Hence, the question. |
(((I have to run some longish cables (25feet). I got some old Transparent
Supers that needed repair, and was convinced to 'upgrade' to current
model Plus series. It was way more than I wanted to spend, but I did it.
With my new subs on the way, rather than invest in such expensive
cable, I hoped I could get away with something more reasonable in cost
(since they're only running low frequencies). Hence, the question.)))
Wow did you almost blow it
Amarg post's are spot on others are well intended but misguided babbling relative to your scenario.
Just get the standard normally supplied Vandersteen 2WQ twisted pair sub cable its affordable and works.
The Transparent cable is on the darker side and at its best with a speaker that's on the brighter side, just not yours.
After 4 weeks of run in with it you will likely not hear the magic you paid for with your speakers and 2WQs.
The Vandersteens 3A Sigs work great with a relatively affordable AudioQuest cable like Rocket 88
Together they offer Superior articulation tonality and involvment.
With proper high Pass set up and tilt back the speakers will disappear and engage you with their musicality, sounding less like great speakers and more like music itself.
Follow it up with any of the new AQ interconnects Red River on up.
Perhaps you can sell off the main Tranpt cables to someone else who can find a good home using those funds to upgrade yours.
Best JohnnyR
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The original Vandersteen sub cable has long disappeared, so I had to buy something new.
I took Amarg's suggestion and purchased a pair of Cable Solutions cables. I, too, find his comments to be spot on (and I have looked at numerous posts). Thanks, Amarg!
Re: Transparent Cables, I have to say the upgraded Plus cables really sound nice. Perhaps a 'brighter' cable would work better, but, despite not yet 'burning in', I really am enjoying the sound quality.( I was using an older Transparent Music Wave-with a white cable-that didn't have the subtlety that the new cable has).
When funds allow, I think I will try the Audioquest Rocket 88's and compare them with the Transparent's. Though a quick Google shows the length I want to be roughly the same price as the Transparents. |
I went thru this process a few months ago, when I received a pair of JL Audio F113V2 subs.
I enjoy Wireworld cabling for my interconnects and speaker cables and bought a set of their "Oasis 7" cables with RCA connectors to use with my former Velodyne sub, while I was waiting for the JL subs to be available. They were relatively inexpensive, never heard any "hum" using them.
My audio buddy let me know that the JL Audio design converted the "unbalanced" into some other format inside the class D amp, and that it was better to connect them to balanced preamp outputs/cabling, so what the heck, I bought a pair of the same "Oasis 7" cables with balanced connectors. They are eight meters long, not a trace of hum from the F113V2's. I can't remember their cost, but it was modest. |
