I think subs are a matter of prefference. Like having sugar or cream in your coffee, with so-called "full range", speakers. especially, With rolled off bottom ends and so on. Show me an affordable speaker that hits 20 Hz flat, with any degree of impact and satisfaction. Not generally in the less than $10K, or better neighborhood. Personally, I like a sub, even with two channel listening.
I've only heard the JR's briefly, at a local dealers listening room. After an hour or better of listening to the latest VR 4 III, I was not very impressed. I told the dealer I thought the VR 4 se III, must have something wrong with the bottom end. He said maybe I ought to go into an adjacent room to hear a speaker with a bass enclosure of wood, instead of fabric. OK. Same music, same track, $2000.00, less in speakerage, VR 4 JR's......about 30 seconds into their audition I was floored. The difference was just that startling. There was body. Warmth. Bottom end was noticeably more pronounced. All in all, very satisfying, in spite of the fact I did not believe it to be exptremely controlled bass, it was way more THERE!.
I should point out that the equipment (preamp & amps, was different), on the 4se III, it was all solid state, electrocompaniet preamp, Krell 250 WPC amp, Shanling tube CD player. On the VR 4 JR's, Same CD Player, Thor preamp, and two Thor mono blocks, 30wpc. . . AMAZING!
I learned a very important thing that day, as important as speakers can be, more important, is the front end. On the speaker end, enclosing the bass drivers into a solid enclosure is, for me, a more satisfying sound.
On the VR4SE III, just in dollars, the front end was about nine grand, the speakers were $6500.
On the VR4JR's, the front end was about Twenty two grand, and the JR'S cheaper by $2500.
Good speakers are worth investing in. Good front ends will provide better results with less expensive speakers, or at least in this instance, they did. I mean it was one of those, "Night and Day", differences.
lOTS OF FACTORS PLAY A PART IN SOUND REPRODUCTION. rOOM SIZE. POWER. SPEAKER EFFICIENCY, and so on. The VR4JR's CAN give good bottom end results, suprisingly to me, with attention to the signal path, and room dimensions. I heard them in a room about 13 x 21, with a 10 foot or so ceiling. Even liking subs as a rule, the JR's impressed me that day. Still do, actually.. . . . as impressive as the sound was, I ain't buying THOR, though. Might get those JR's. though, now that I know what they are capable of.