The point I tried to make earlier and which seems to have been ignored by some who might favor turntables with laissez-faire speed control is that yes, live human musicians will inevitably vary tempo during the course of a performance of a given piece of music and given conductors will pace different classical pieces differently, but that's the crux of the matter. You/I want the turntable to make no alterations of tempo that might obscure the human factor inherent to the pleasure of listening. The turntable should ideally do no editorializing, in other words. Plus there is the fact that inconstancy of turntable speed affects pitch, whereas human errors in timing produce only changes in tempo. No turntable or drive system is absolutely perfect in this respect, but that should be the goal. In my opinion, of course.
Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?
Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).
RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.
RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.
Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).
RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.
RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.
Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE
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- 169 posts total
Hi phoenixengr. VPI have made interesting choices in the controller and motor. You would think that Thingap would make a motor with low speed/power windings ( higher resistance ) making for finer speed control from the Elmo. All that said, the TT gets great press, so the package seems to work very well indeed. |
@richardkrebs- ThinGap does make a different series motor (LS51, same price ~$600 in qty.) with higher pole count (higher driving freq), lower power (48W) and higher winding resistance (4Ω); it is still coreless and would be much better suited for a DD table application the the TG23x series and could be driven from a class AB amp. It’s been available for a couple of years, so I’m not sure why it didn’t get used in this case? The HW40 gets great press because it does sound good and even measures respectably, but no where near the numbers VPI claims for W&F, speed accuracy or torque. Of all the reviews I’ve read, I don’t believe I saw a single measurement; making matters even more difficult, you need the software from Elmo (you can it download free from their website) and need to construct a serial cable to connect a PC to the controller in order to get some of the relevant measurements. Luckily, the parts are readily available thru Digikey. With the software, you can also do 78 RPM or adjust the tempo for off speed records such as the Stones Beggar's Banquet, in steps of ~0.07%. |
I'm not sure if I have any QRP records but I have quite a few RTI pressings and they are great, certainly up there with the best. 3-6 months behind? So much for the death of vinyl. Phoenix, it appears David Karmeli does not have a web site. I can find pictures of his tables but nothing on specs and design philosophy. It sure looks like he has out Kuzma'd Frank. That table looks darn massive. I understand it has an air bearing like the Walker? Nothing on price or how to order one. I have never been a fan of direct drive turntables. It seems to be the solution to a problem I do not have. None of my turntables have had speed variations bad enough that I could hear and that includes the LP 12. I instinctively do not like the idea of an oscillating magnetic device under my low output moving coil cartridge. But I can not say that I can hear a problem with that either because I have never had a direct drive table in my system. It seems that most of the reviewers prefer belt driven tables. But then there are many more belt driven tables out there than direct or idler wheel drive. |
- 169 posts total