Streaming network issues - need a geek

Hi, I have little effort to answer your question.

Make sure your browser is up-to-date, too - head to the settings menu and check for any updates, then install them and restart your browser. Browser extensions can create slowdown on web pages, including for video streaming services. For more detail also see https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/streaming-network-issues-10eloto-need-a-geek

Thanks

Thanks @eranbuell, but this is not a browser issue. I'm not streaming from a computer. If you mean the NuPrime software, I am having the same issue with mconnectPlayer HD streaming to the network card in my Bricasti DAC. Both work fine when they are on the same leg of the network (controlling software/iPad and streamer), but for unrelated reasons I can't do that. 

What model is the router? If relatively new, you may have customer service available from Netgear for free. Their paid service, I'd be hesitant about. The one time I tried it, it cost me to have them tell me to reset everything back to default (which didn't help).

Because network addresses are assigned by the router, you’ll never be able to run a cable directly from the modem and use the router at the same time, as you noted. Also, the router provides Network Address Translation, which is a safety measure you’d best not do without.

It would be unusual for a router to restrict speeds unless specifically configured for that. Cables could be a problem. I’d suggest using decent cables -- not "audiophile" Ethernet cables -- that are Cat 5e, Cat 6, or Cat 7. Try swapping cables, as they do fail from time to time

After making changes, sometimes it helps to shut off modem and router and let them boot up again.

That’s about all I know. There is a Small Net Builder’s forum available online where you can get more free advice. Like the free advice anywhere (including mine), it might be good, bad, or indifferent.

How do you know that the Nighthawk is restricting bandwidth? Can you turn off any QoS or bandwidth control settings?

Otherwise, the only way I think you can solve this problem is by enabling port forwarding for the Nighthawk’s IP address on the modem, if this feature is supported. This is very risky because you’re essentially creating a hole in the modem’s firewall to allow ISP traffic through to your local network. And if you don’t have a static IP address for the Nighthawk, then *anyone* assigned to that IP address on your ISP’s network can connect to the Nuprime.

The nighthawk is a dual band router. I would get a wall wart wifi extender and plug it in next to the audio system and connect your audio ethernet cable to it. Then run your iPad on which ever band does not take away from your system.

Also, better quality streamers cashe and can make up for a lot of network issues. So, it the above doesn’t work, consider an Aurender streamer.

Thanks everyone for replies so far.

@yage I bought a large Sony 4k TV, connected it to the Nighthawk router (tried both Ethernet and WiFi) and was not able to connect to any 4k service. Connection tested as functional. Connected straight to the modem via ethernet and it worked just fine. Netgear spent a lot of time with me, even replaced the router. No change. They gave up. I called Sony support and went through everything. They eventually came to the conclusion that the router was restricting bandwidth somehow. 

No bandwidth settings that I could find. What is QoS?

@ghdprentice I have three devices that have this issue with the Nighthawk - see above for Sony TV problems. The third is my Bricasti DAC with a streaming card. The Bricasti is no slouch. 

"I would get a wall wart wifi extender and plug it in next to the audio system and connect your audio ethernet cable to it." That is exactly what I wanted to do using the Nighthawk, with WiFi on the modem OFF, but bandwidth restrictions in the Nighthawk. It works, but I don't think I am getting full bandwidth. 

@mike_in_nc The model is RAX45 Nighthawk from Netgear. I did upgrade all my ethernet cables to Cat 8. 

Thanks for the Small Net Builder's forum reference.

First, what is your speed on the DSL?  Around here it is only 6MB downstream.  That's not much these days.  It certainly will not do justice to a 4k TV.

Second, are you trying to hookup two networks?  It sounds like you have the router function on the DSL modem on, and the Netgear router.  That could cause issues.  If you want to use only the Netgear router, make sure the modem router is turned off - not just WiFi.  You will probably have to connect directly to a computer via Ethernet and go to the modem/router setup page in your brower, usually 192.168.1.1 for Netgear, but it depends on what brand your modem is.

Is there a reason you are not using the modem router?  It must have one if there is more than one ethernet out.  

Jim

I had a similar issue with an ATT Router and

Google Nest. The Geek Squad tech put the ATT 

Router in pass through mode and that solved 

the problem. Not sure if this is helpful for your situation.  

Thanks for additional replies!

@jgoldrick It does handle 4k, but just barely, and only when connected ethernet direct to the modem. I am using the modem router, and currently also using its WiFi. The modem is in my studio. I have my desktop and my big printer as well as two ethernet lines out to where my audio system is connected to the modem. Also various WiFi devices. The reason this is not preferred is the modem is not very good with WiFi or juggling the number of devices that hit it. It is a supplied device from my service provider (Frontier - heaven help me). 

Yes, 6 Mb/s is all I get (with a strong tailwind and the neighborhood switch is functioning properly and not too many people in this part of the county are hitting it). Unfortunately it's my only option in this rural WV location. Actually compared to other locations in the state I'm flying. Would you believe only 60 miles out of DC and it is like living in a third world country, complete with lunatic fringe politicians and extremely corrupt county gov., not to mention the state gov. Don't get me started. 

When I have the Nighthawk router functioning and WiFi turned off on the modem things work pretty well except for the bandwidth problem. The Nighthawk is much better at handling multiple WiFi devices. That is why I would like to find a way to get my iPad on WiFi to the Nighthawk to see the streamers that are ethernet direct to the modem.

@ericsch I think that is what someone earlier mentioned, but I was warned that it opens you up to intrusion. It bypasses the firewall, if I understand correctly.

No, @ericsch is correct, you need to turn your modem into pass through mode.  The modem doesn't care about security as such, the router does and your Netgear router should have a firewall built in.  As I mentioned before, you turn that off by hitting the modem setup page in the browser.  Once it is off, the only way to connect to the router is to either reset it to factory settings or connect via ethernet to a computer. 

Then let the Netgear handle all the routing and security.

PS - that means nothing but the Netgear will plug into the modem once it is in pass-through mode.  Everything will be connected to the Netgear.

Looks like the minimum speed requirement for streaming 4K video is 25 Mb/s. Just making sure - your DSL downlink speed is faster than that right?

If so, then it would be helpful to have your router model number as well as the DSL modem model.

I misread the original post -- now I see that you are connecting the streamer by WiFi.

Yes, as others have said, the modem needs to be in pass-through (modem only) mode. That means its WiFi will be off. I believe most Netgear stuff has a sticker on the bottom with its default IP address, user name, and password. You can contact the modem then from a Web browser on your network and check & change settings.

If you can run a cable from the streamer to the modem, why not run the cable from the streamer to the router instead? Most of them have 4-8 Ethernet ports in the back. (I just checked; yours has four.) If not enough ports, a $20 unmanaged switch will help.

Routers I’ve used consider wired and WiFi devices all to be on the same network by default. They draw IP addresses from a common pool. What I’m trying to say is, they can talk to one another.

(BTW, Category 8 cable is absolutely unnecessary at those speeds. Cat 5e is plenty, though there is nothing wrong with Cat 6 or Cat 7. My understanding is that Cat 8 is shielded and the shield grounding is said to reduce isolation between devices. Some very tweaky folks complain of higher noise floor, but I have no experience with that.)

6 Mb/s isn’t enough for 4K video (not even close). You’re able to watch video because it’s dropping down to a lower resolution stream. Check if you’re able to get Starlink satellite internet in your area: https://www.starlink.com/

Yep, those broadband speeds are way too slow for reliable 4k. Starlinks is fast enough but a 1 yr wait. But if that is your best path get on the list now. It is $110/month tho.

@jgoldrick and @mike_in_nc If I do set the modem (Arris NVG443B - supplied by service provider) to passthrough will I still be able to connect my desktop and printer in the studio via ethernet to the modem (the router is in a different location in the house)? If so will they be behind a firewall? I think not. Could I add a second router for the studio? I have a lot of devices, though not many are hitting it at any one time (sleep mode). 

@yage ​​​​@mspot The TV must be operating at 2K. I will check Starlink. Thanks for the suggestion. 

@mike_in_nc No, NOT connecting the streamers by WiFi, only ethernet. The iPad that I use to control them connects by WiFi. 

Cat 8 is infrastructure that I hope will be needed at some point. I wanted the shielding. I do not have a noise problem. I have replaced network switched power supplies with linear supplies, which does reduce noise though I can't say the difference is overwhelming. Ideally using fiber for the last segment would remove all noise, but neither of my streamers are able to accept fiber. Yes, there are ways around that... maybe someday, but bigger picture stuff first.

I am using an unswitched hub and I have indeed been into the modem and router settings. 

I think I need to draw schematics of my current and preferred network. I know it is hard to get the picture from words alone. Later today or tomorrow. 

Thanks to all.

Try this.

1.  Set modem to pass-through.

2.  Connect Netgear to modem.  That is the only connection to modem other than DSL input.

3.  Connect printer, etc to router leaving 1 ethernet socket open.

4.  Connect final ethernet to cable running to streamer, etc. 

5.  Get a network switch from Best Buy or somewhere and connect it to other end of cable in #4.

6.  Connect streamer, etc to switch.

If you need more connections at the router for the printer, etc. get a second switch for those.

HTH

I think the main issue is that you think the Netgear router is constraining bandwidth. You should make sure this is really the case. Do a speed test (speedtest.net or Google ’speed test’) from a device connected to the modem and then do the test again from a device connected to the Nighthawk. Since your connection is 6 Mb/s the numbers should match pretty closely.

One last thing, if there is a large discrepancy between the speed you’re getting from the modem and when you’re connected to the Nighthawk, look into the QoS (quality of service) settings. This may be the culprit.

See this link for more information - Got a Netgear Router? Disable QoS

+1 @jgoldrick 

Yes, add a switch -- or more than one switch -- NOT a second router. The kind of switch you need is something like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/

You can think of it as an "extension cord" for Ethernet.

You can't run devices from both the modem and the router because you are then creating two separate networks that don't "know" how to talk to one another. This can cause all kinds of problems.

To put it another way, the router runs a DHCP server -- it assigns network addresses to your devices. It is not advisable for the general home user to run two separate networks, as it can cause the problems noted. That's why the modem must be in passthrough mode and one device (the router) assigns the addresses and connects devices.

The TV must be operating at 2K

Even lower. 6 Mbps is just enough for 1080p and may drop to 720p when the connection isn't reliable.

I'm skeptical that your issue is caused by bandwidth limiting. Your connection may be simply too slow. As @yage said, run a speed test. You may have signed up for "up to" 6 Mbps DSL service but in reality it can be much lower. DSL data rate degrades with distance from the provider's central office and depends on the condition of the phone lines to your home.