Stock Voyager GaN amp (350/600) Contrasted with my EVS1200 (600/1200)
A week ago I sold my~ 10 yo SVS powered subs. While they added weight, they weren't high quality 2 channel subs. I didn't realize how much they set my sound back until they were gone, and I moved he speakers back ~ 2ft, now ~50" from the front wall. Tonite, I finally got around to taking my Emerald Physics 3.4s off the Harbor Freight dollys which they've been on since I got them over a year ago. Each base is resting on 4 full spring Nobsounds. Quite an improvement |
About a week ago I decided to reinsert my Marantz HD-CD 1, purchased to use as a transport and possible backup player, when/if the Oppo dies. It was fuller sounding, with more bass, but sadly developed scratching issues in the magnetic clamp. The entire mechanism needs replacing @ $150+ shipping, and I didn't want to spend that much to repair (it's available for anyone who provides a pickup slip). Anyway, I scored a great deal on a Audiolab 6000 CDT, which I won't have until late next week, but based on the reviews and owner comments, it should be a huge upgrade |
Morning Phil!
FYI I should, could might.... finally get the EP 2.8s next week. In the mean time, what I learned from reinserting the Marantz HD CD-1, especially after taking the cover and side panels off was revelatory. I could easily have lived with that sound, but, I guess it was supposed to die, just so I would finally upgrade to a real transport. What I especially like is the 6000 has a buffer AND it will go into standby should I forget to hit stop when a CD is being played, then paused. A situation that happens all too often here, and could likely hasten the demise of my Oppo, or the Marantz
Tracking says it will be here Thursday. It's supposed to be virtually brand new, so will need to insert a break in disc in advance of my audio buddy's arrival Friday night. I hope it has a replay button |
IMO, the manual SUCKS, but DAMN, it’s ability to extract data from red book is amazing at this price point It is sturdy, and it seems to have a tribe of happy users, so, Im confident it will last. I think the problem with all my previous players when used as transports, is that I watch sports while listening and often hit pause, and forget to unpause, eventually falling asleep, leaving the disc spinning all night- many nights, so the auto standby is a HUGE plus for me. It really has taken redbook playback to a whole new level for me. Obviously the power cord (custom from TekLine $795, which I already owned), coax cable (AudioQuest Premier XL @ $169/2m from Audio Advisor) and iso devices (Nob Sound @ ~ 25/4) will help to extract its capabilities. My dac is in a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5. The review I posted is spot on (link below). I have played a wide variety of music, all revealed musical ques previously hidden to me, none more jaw dropping then listening to an oldie Chet Atkins and Mark Knoffler Neck and Neck. So much more everything to make me wonder about SACDs, though I have ~ 80, currently I use my Oppo 105 for them, but looking to get a Technics SL-G700 (see link below).
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@jetter True enough, though in my defense, I ran through quite a few class Ds prior to the EVS1200 ($2300!), and as I recall, there were no GaN amps available 2 years ago that the average guy, like myself, could afford. At that time, Viber 6 (I assume you are aware of his classical violin training) heard the Merrill's and was not impressed, but the magazines were, and they hear a lot of $$$$$ AB amps. |
A couple price corrections; the PS Audio M1200s are ’ONLY" $5998 LOL, while the Voyager is $3000. I haven’t yet relistened to the CDs from my initial redbooks, but will do so over the next couple days. I've been getting reacquainted with other CDs. I am expecting Emerald Physics 2.8s soon (2 years and counting). A book could be written about their travel and delays. Anyway, they have dual 15" carbon fiber woofers per side, and can be bi-amped, so I will likely investigate using the EVS 1200 to power them, just because I already own it While there is already a comment about being happy with their current AB amp... I’m guessing the word will spread faster than a CA wild fire, which will likely mean a big backlog for it, and a huge sales dump of AB amps. Also, they certainly could raise the price. IMHO, $6000 would still be a bargain. Just sayin’ |
@rsf507 I hear you! I've been racking my brain trying to recall what amp I had when the music was this pure. ~ 30 years ago I had Accoustat 2+2s with 4 of their servo amps/OTLs (somewhat modified). After I sold the whole system, a friend who built a room on the side of his house to accommodate his custom frame Accoustat 6 + 6s with 4 servo amps found a guy who was able to stabilize the amps. Also when Judd Barber was alive he made a pair of small OTL mono blocks that he sent me to evaluate. I think I had Reference 3A mm Decapos at the time I was never able to afford Ralph's OTLs, but lusted after them. Which ones do you have? |
I finally played something that I played yesterday, pre V: Hell Freezes
Over. The music was slightly softened, which affected everything. The culprit is the sorbothane footers . I never understood why they were ever popular, IMO, they have no benefit.
I placed 4 of my Machina Dynamica Springs near the footers and everything tightened up-
better focus, everything sounded faster and clearer, drums had a better thwack. Im sure the people who have the Voyager have some kind of isolation, vibration devices. Feel free to post your thoughts |
@ricevs Why Walter is keen on them I do not know. When I bought my/his EP 100.2SE class D amps, I specifically told him no sorbo! He challenged me, and I basically said what you just said. Hopefully, the ones being shipped to customers don't have them affixed, but Machina Dynamica Springs are tall enough. I also placed a ~ 10 pound marble slab on top. Last night I relistened to the Eagles Hell Freezes Over and Willie Nelson Across the Border Line. Both sounded amazingly better with springs, but Willie freaked me out as to how life like it sounded. Today, I will relisten to Jennifer Nettles and the Judds, then move on to some classical |
A few more discs under my belt, including Jennifer Nettles, which as I have mentioned is a mixed bag, and through the Voyager the well recorded cuts sound significantly better, as in more life like, smoother, more continuous, but the poorly recorded cuts still sound bad. Linda Ronstadt Living in America sounded great, far better than it ever did via the EVS1200. So, to answer the question asked "is it better or just different", oh it’s better. A lot better! I would say that George @georgehifi was right about the lack of processing speed (if that’s the correct term) in typical class D is its Achilles Heal when compared to the vastly superior GaN, but GaN in and of itself is not the be all end all. The execution of the power supply etc. is the key, and it seems the team behind engineering the Voyager have mad skills, preferring to wait 2 long agonizing years through many trail and errors before being satisfied and bring it to market. Kudos! I agree that at different times of the day or night the music can sound different. To minimize that I have a 20 amp dedicated line, and my Oppo 105 and Audio Alchemy are plugged into a Core Power 1800 which is plugged into the dedicated line I will add, that I think what Ric meant is not that people who already own very expansive amps will be quick to sell them and at a huge loss, just to buy a Voyager, though some might, but if the Voyager is compared to a lot of the uber expensive blingy amps pre-purchase, those might not be the purchase of choice |
"Switching Speed" that’s the term I was unable to pull from my brain lol When Ric asks " Can you describe the tonal balance difference, bass response, naturalness, soundstage, air, high frequency extension, detail, speed, dynamics, slam, decay, depth, purity, separation of instruments, noise level, ability to handle complex music, etc, etc.....something? " Perhaps the Voyager has revealed the limits of my Audio Alchemy dac, and possibly the limits of my Oppo 105 as a transport, or one XLR interconnect (Surf Cables Silver), although when I say that, listening to say KD Lang Ingenue last night, which sounded ’good’, but not crazy good, until the 4th song, which was properly recorded and sounded amazing. It just depends on the recording. I'm guessing analog 'philes will be overjoyed Also, a discrete input seems the logical next step hth |
In further assessing my stock Voyager, I finally got around to
classical. First up was Yellowstone by Chip Davis. I have a connection
to this as I visited Yellowstone and hiked around. On one hike along
close by a river a small herd of Buffalo came by some 30 yards away from
us. I took a picture of a calf suckling on its mother. We stood and
watched without moving, and yet the bull came between us and his herd,
non threatening, but certainly sending a message. The album has cuts with nature sounds, as though they were recorded in the open. Expansive, open, transparent, well recorded. It's this kind of recording that makes the Voyager special To answer the question "How does it sound?" I recommend reading the Absolute Sound Technics Integrated Review in the July 2021 issue, under the heading enough of the technobabble... I couldn't have said it better myself My EVS 1200 slightly warmed the recordings, and while that has a place, I much prefer the Voyager hth |
I neglected to mention "power". My last 4
Class D amps were: Emerald Physics 100.2SEs (100wpc?), Audio Alchemy DPA 1
(125/200), PS Audio M700s (350/700) < none of these adequately coupled to my
room; ~26 x 35 x 12, lots of glass and terrazzo floors, meaning it's a lively
room. So I bought my EVS1200 (dual IceEdge AS1200 modules!) direct from Ric
(600/1200 per module!!!) and it did the job of coupling the room to the music.
Let that sink in, BECAUSE, the Voyager (350/600 per, as it has dual modules) is
every bit as energetic/powerful, but on good recordings, blows the EVS away.
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"Blows away" in this case means the sound stage is bigger, wider, deeper , significantly more life-like (micro-details are much more evident) than the amp I had such high praises for, but compared to what? Certainly not to the Voyager, which, BTW does not make mediocre recordings sound better (very neutral), but on really good recordings, it is very life-like, especially on large orchestra where I get a real sense of how big the orchestra is, and where the various sections are. When I first started my EVS thread, and mentioned that I was going to be receiving a Voyager, I was scolded by Ric for supposedly preventing hundreds of sales (actually, I think he said thousands), but he knew that GaN done right was the future. And we know it took them 2 years to bring it to the market. Numerous times in that thread I tried to tell those potential hundreds of EVS 1200 customers, who needed the power, not to wait. My big concern was would literally 1/2 the power fill my voluminous room. Little did I know the Voyager @ 350/600 would be every bit as powerful in delivering the power and authority, only better, much better. When I first hooked up the EVS1200 ~ 2 years ago, I was using Surf Cables silver XLRs between Audio Alchemy DDP-1 and the EVS 1200. I used it until maybe 9 months ago when I switched them out for WireWorld Series 7. Draw your own conclusions. As to the many assumptions on Vipers part... well I’ll just leave it at that, other than to say this amp was WELL BROKEN IN before I received it hth with all the angst |
Last night I listened to Alison Krauss + Union Station New Favorite. Listened to it at least 50-100 times. It was always entertaining, but I simply wasn't prepared for how everything sounded so clear, so focused and natural. Not even thinking about it, when the banjo played I was floored, as I never noticed it before, because it never had its own space or sounded so natural. Ditto all the musicians and singers. I remind anyone interested in this amp to read the Absolute Sounds Technics review in Jul 2021 issue. As I read it the other day, he nailed everything Im hearing, which should help you decipher my scribblings on how the Voyager sounds |
And it’s not JUST audio tweaks, as getting my roof siliconed proved to be very beneficial. More though, speaker XOs are typically done by ear in a specific room, to a specific amplifier, or taste. My Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" concentric drivers with 1" polyester dome tweeters) are plenty adequate for most rooms, but in my voluminous room I supplement with 2 SVS 12" down firing subs. I had the XOs set at ~ 80 (which works with some bass shy, or overly bright discs), but as I kept turning them down to ~ 45 speed significantly increased as well as detail, yet still providing the fullness of notes say from a hollow body guitar, or banjo, and I suspect a violin, cello... |
@viber6 As you know, I have enjoyed my EVS 1200 for 2 years, giving it tons of praises. Every song I have played through the Voyager was played many times through the 1200. There is no reason to go backwards. The Voyager/GaN technology at least how LSA has implemented it is that much better. And keep in mind the Voyager is a ground up design with many hiccups along the way My critique is not about Rics ability. I know there were things Ric would have liked to have done, but the modules simply didn’t allow for it, so he did the best he could, and I was very happy, until... It’s going to be interesting to hear what people think of his mods to the V. It’s so damned good stock, and I trust Rics tweak ability |
Last night I listened to Jackson Brown Solos Acoustics Vol 1 and Janis Ian Breaking Silence Both have been played hundreds of times, with Janis having been played on lots of different systems over the decades. I also saw her live in a tiny Musicians Exchange venue in Ft Lauderdale back in the 80s. Both were spooky real, sounding live. Never heard either sounding so alive Viber, another guy asked the same q. He and I both searched, but could not find a link. Looks like you will need to buy the issue if it’s important to you |
Having recently upgraded my machina dynamica springs reveals that the V is a chameleon. My V has 4 sorbothane devices glued onto the V, and as can be expected, the overall sound was slightly slow and muffled, which immediately opened up the V. Each replacement was followed by listening to the same few songs (in this case Rickie Lee Jones Naked Songs. Next under the DDPA-1 pre/dac. Both were revealing more clarity, so I ordered 3 more sets. First, I strategically placed 2 of them directly under the Oppo laser and the upgraded LPM toroid. Again a major improvement, then under the PS 5 outboard PS for the DDP-1. And lastly, under the 2 outboard XOs. At $26/set of 4, this is an absolute bargain. I also have 2 more sets coming which will allow me to take my EP 3.4s off the Harbor Freight dollys, which will lower the 12" concentric driver to better meet my ear level from the chair. After all were placed I then slightly increased the volume on the powered subs plate amps (some 10+ years old) to hear what impact that would have on the bass. Doing so was a mixed bag. Better would be to have a quality active XO. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MT1R4KZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details hth |
+3 granny Density is the precise word I could not pull from my brain when I instead said the Voyager couples better to my room. Also, no matter what the instrument I want to hear the leading edge of the notes as well as the body of the instrument, plus the harmonics and decay. The Voyager is capable of doing those far better than any amp I can recall owning, with 2 very distant possible exceptions being the Accoustat servo tube amps and a Kinetics KB 75 class A amp. I say capable, as the ability to sound live is recording dependent hth |
Technics Integrated Review TAS https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/technics-su-r1000-integrated-amplifier?mc_cid=2c9d21110f&a... |
I’ve long felt AC was a hack reviewer, never not liking a product in decades of reviews (yes, it’s a double negative, but, in this case I think it makes the point clearer), but in this review his comments about the Technics mirrored my own with the Voyager, which is why I posted it, to help answer viber’s questions, and Im sure others. Last night I listened to a very very old favorite, Barbara Joan Streisand Columbia 1971 remastered from original tapes. Never ever has it sounded so life like, open, effortless, and dare I say; non digital. IMO (and to be fair, GeorgeFi all along, switching speed is a BFD), and quite likely the primary difference between it and my long beloved EVS1200. There is no going back Not the remaster: https://www.amazon.com/Barbra-Joan-Streisand/dp/B0000024XL hth |
In case you're not following the LSA thread: posted by Mark from Corepower clearing the air on the Voyager design... Just felt that as this point I needed to send along a few points. Not here in any way to argue or attempt to interpret anything about the Voyager as said by others. I will however mention a few points as it relates to us. There were two of us involved from the very beginning of POC and Module Testing from the very beginning. That would be Doug Goldberg and myself beginning in 2015 (yes... you read that right) Post these early tests which included some AMAZING higher power modules... my friends Peter Madnick, EJ Sarmento and later, Dr Viet Nguyen contributed to findings and feedback. This is especially true for EJ and Peter. We have all tested and participated in DIRECT FEEDBACK with the maker. I have known this incredible guy I've known for well over 30 years. There were several suggestions made during the dev process on the lower power version of this module. This one was the 200 watt version. Walter ultimately decided that he wanted to go with the Higher Power Version which did slow us a bit. There were many (read please MANY) revs of the original module. If memory serves - 5 in total, and a huge amount of man-hours testing and listening. I personally have probably near to 300 hours in test and listening to the 200 watt version and then over 100 more with the current module. The team that developed these modules and SMPS are some of the brightest super-power Engineers known (to me or otherwise). A real Dream Team. Lots of decisions were made along to way productizing The Voyager GaN 350. I'm proud of the product, and I know our team is as well. This is a very special amplifier. Walter stuck to the program and our end users are reporting some fine results. Best wishes, Mark |
Came across these iso devices from Korea. Haven’t found the price yet, but they look PRICEY https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/08/hifstay-hardpoint-trinia-vibration.html I think I have 3 Maple Shade brass triple points and Herbies Hush Puckies with brass centers. I will swap these out for the springs under my Voyager |
One of my supreme torture CDs is Annie Lennox Medusa. My jaw dropped as I played it all the way through. The V has unraveled all that was wrong with all the class D amps I've owned, including the EVS 1200, which I suspect is the Switching Speed Although I've been using a 1"+ x 6 x 12ish heavy marble slab on top, when i tried to replace the springs with Mapleshade triple points and Herbies cups, I could hear the ringing. This morning I am going to remove the lid, as I did previously with both my EVS 1200 and Oppo 105 Ric says he is adding vibration deadening material to the Vs he's modding |
Very cool review. Eventually I will get a modded V, but Im very happy with the stock one, especially once I lifted the chassis off the rubber feet with Nobsound springs and took the top off. It would still likely benefit from some damping material. Also, I would like to hear the stock V with the 2.8s as I am quite familiar with it 2.8s: Slight delay (I hope) to finally getting the 2.8s: quite possibly next week. For those who may not know, they are still at CDC warehouse in Miami after the truck they were shipped in was found to have BARRELS OF toxic illegal drug chemicals (the truck driver is doing time). This was just before the lock downs and January 6th, which had the CDC guy in charge quite busy |
Adding this link to a review of the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5. These have been in my system for several years, and I find them hard to replace without spending a lot more, though I would love to hear R2R but it would need a similar HQ analog volume control. The reason I am posting this is a guy is selling this pair for $1695 on another site. Here's the link to one of the reviews. If you are interested, just do a search
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One of my previous class Ds was Emerald Physics 100.2 SE monos with custom fuses, which were better than the then W4S class Ds, but outdone by the PSAudio M700s and further outdone by my EVS 1200: none holding a candle to the Voyager, but if your budget is under $1500, well...
It was incredibly enjoyable to read the Stereo Times review of the LSA Warp 1, mentioning that it bettered the old EP 100.2SEs which were ~ twice the price
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Thanks for chiming in. Never have I appreciated more the sentiment "what's upstream makes a huge difference". When I first installed the Voyager I was using a Marantz HD CD-1 as a transport. Fortunately (seems odd to say) it developed issues in the spinning mechanism. Marantz no longer carries parts, but, they were kind enough to provide the part number. I searched and found ONE in Asia for $150 + shipping. I decided to look for a transport. Being retired with limited funds, I am forced to be frugal. After reading an amazing review, I located a barely used Audiolab CDT6000. Immediately I was transported (NPI) to a multidimensional sonic world, which has only gotten better over 100+ hours. Case in point: last night I decided to spin Annie Lennox Medusa, which I owned for a decade++, but no matter my kit, it had always been a tough disc with only a couple listenable songs. Well, last night, the entire disc sounded really good. Ditto lots of other discs that sounded similarly meh until the 6000. Best of all MSRP is a ridiculous $599, but mine (including shipping) was considerably less |
