Stillpoints or Audio Points, has anyone compared

Fiddler, sorry for my being so smug. The 'ground' in which I speak is whatever lies beneath the rack and speakers. aka the flooring system.

Once the vibrations have expeditiously evacuated the components, racking system, and speakers, they find their way into the flooring system.

Once in the flooring system, they'll find their own way to the foundation and ground. But for all intensive purposed regarding these micro-vibrations and to the best of my knowledge, I simply consider the flooring system as the ground.

But I still think the lightning rod analogy is very applicable to the subject at hand.

-IMO

I'll answer all of your questions. :)

Q. Has anyone compared Stillpoints to Audio Points?
A. I don't know but perhaps there is one who has.

Q. Are Stillpoints better than Audio Points?
A. I don't know but they could be. When one considers what a set of Stillpoints cost vs. the price of Audio Points, one should expect Stillpoints to be multiple times better. That I doubt.

Q. Are all brass cones the same and do the same things?
A. Not all power cables, ic's, nor sc's are the same, nor are any other components considered the same. For each has it's own unique style of execution, sonic signature, and design. Therefore, it should be very safe to assume that that not all brass cones are the same.

That was easy.

As for a few of the other comments posted in this thread. Some to many are aware that there are 3 camps of vibration control methodologies,

1. de-coupling/dampening/isolation,

2. coupling/mechanical transfer, and

3. The ecumenicals who like to combine coupling and de-coupling products thinking they are getting the best of both worlds. aka mug-womps, those with their mugs on one side of the fence and their womps on the other side of the fence.

Regardless of which methodology one adhere's to (except for the mug-womps), one simply should not expect to realize either methodology's full sonic potential via some half-assed commitment. Just like any other aspect of audio, vibration control truly requires an all or nothing approach to realize the full benefits.

And for many, vibration control is still a final frontier in need of discovery.

I can't speak for the de-coupling products, but when it comes to the coupling methodology, one should not expect maximum performance gains until a mechanical break-in period has allowed everything to settle. Yes, it's true. In my case it took at least 7 whole days for everything to settle. After that, the results were nothing short of a serious component upgrade.

But that radical change did not occur until the final pieces were in place.

And every time a racking system is moved, break-in can still take several days.

In other words, one should not expect to hear night and day differences during A/B comparisons.

-IMO

Fiddler, you obviously have gone to great lengths regarding the tweaking to your components. However, why not provide here the same level detailed response as to how you applied the Audio Points?

To what components did you install the Audio Points under (ie rack, speakers, and all components at the same time?)?
How long a break-in period did you allow for, and perhaps most important, what racking system you used throughout this time period?

In other words, to realize the full benefits of the Audio Points, the methodology (coupling) has to be applied everywhere.

Assume for the moment that you are using zip cord for all of your cabling needs. You then install Jena Labs top of the line speaker cables, and one pair of their ic's but you leave the other pair of zip cord ic's in place.

You would probably notice a nice little improvement, but most likely not worth the $10k you just paid for these cables, and you'd probably want Jena Labs to refund your monies. But when you install that last pair of Jena Lab ic's and allow for proper burn-in, your system is now singing a whole new song.

Same principle rightfully applies when installing Audio Points (and perhaps other similar products) everywhere. However, if you are using some cheap Ikea-like coffee table, mdf boards, or even a much more expensive and popular isolation-type (de-coupling) rack for a racking system, your performance bottleneck will be the rack. You should still realize small performance gains just by installing the Audio Points, but that's the extent of the benefits.

Again, for real night and day improvements, it truly must be an all or nothing approach.

For the record, I have never seen(execpt in mags), touched, nor smelled a Sistrum rack. Small, yet noticeable, improvements were gained after installing the Audio Points under each component. But the fantastic night and day sonic improvements were only after I installed Audio Points on my own custom rack (which also adheres to the coupling methodology) and speakers and then only after about a one week mechanical break-in time period.

I'm fully aware that Y or O MMV and every system is different, but that's not the point. The point is the commitment to a complete installation to fully realize any serious benefits.

-IMO

Hogwash? Fiddler, you misinterpreted just about every point I made.

You didn't seem to like my hyperbola about zip cord and Jena Lab cables and you tried to make it sound pointless. It was hyperbola to stress a point. But if you think it's hogwash, go get the zip cord and try it.

You also misinterpreted my statement about still receiving small improvements with Audio Points but without a decent racking system and Audio Points under the rack.

I made it very clear that improvements would still occur. But that the vast improvements will most likely only occur when you execute the all-or-nothing approach.

Let's try this analogy. Think of the air-borne vibrations as lightning and the components as lightning rods. And think of the Audio Points, rack, and Audio Points under the rack as the grounding cable connecting the lightning rod to ground.

Assume there is a lightning storm and that all lightning will be strike the rod and then re-directed to ground.

Well, air-borne vibrations work the exact same way. You can have the best lightning rod in the world (audio components), but unless it's connected to ground you've compromised the performance of the lightning rod. The Audio Points act as a conduit to provide an exit path for the lightening to transfer away from the rod. But it's the racking system and Audio Points under the racking system that act as the final conduit to ground.

In this example, the music represents the lightning, the component represents the rod, points/rack/points represent the groudning cable. If you substitute a poor rack for a good rack, you're grounding cable may still work, but will certainly become less effective. That's the point I was trying to make previously.

As for the flooring systems? Some to many and I would venture a guess that up to 80% of all audiophiles have suspended wood flooring systems. In fact, my last room was a suspended hardwood flooring system and my current flooring system is suspended with perhaps plywood as the underlayment.

Please stop using the concrete slab vs. suspended hardwood flooring systems as it doesn't substantiate your perspective no matter how much you think it may.

You said, "So what is the common denominator here? Vibrapods. On both my speakers and my components, same result. Without the Vibrapod/Formica setup on my transport, I could feel incredible vibration with my hand; I had horrible soundstaging, bloat and confusion. Immediately upon installing the Vibrapod/Formica idea, not one bit of vibration could be felt on my transport no matter how loudly I played heavy bass material. And my system took a huge leap."

Are you saying that installing Vibrapods under your transport also eliminated any air-borne vibrations captured by the transport as well?

That's some vibrapod.

-IMO

Jayboard, I don't mean any offense but I disagree with just about everything you've said above. Perhaps you've already indicated this in your post above, but upon a careful read of that post, you seem to indicate that you have experimented with and know perhaps as much about vibration control as some to many of the rest of us in this thread. Maybe less.

Nevertheless, you espouse your position with such eloquence and sense of authority, I wish I had your writing skills.

-IMO